[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[Poultrygeist]

TBH that AA combo seems fine to me.  It's what I use, and if there's something better I don't know of one.  

[Jocelot]

Yup, 6P, S, Task C is all you need really. 

 

 

What about throw game? Mid screen as I toss them I like to go 3HS and special cancel that into Task A Prime. Some people I fight online like to air dash forward to dodge, but get stuffed by 6P into stuff.

[NecroTheReaper]

I like doing just grab>236K. I don't like otg's when I can guarantee a character can get hit. If they cant then I think we should use some safejumps or somethin, cuz wiffing 236K just doesn't make me happy.

[Tiamat]

^ Is there enough time to get a safejump off throw?  They are pretty far away.  I just do 236K unless it's one of the 4 characters it whiffs on.  In those cases I usually just walk at them and do something :P

[NecroTheReaper]

If it werent for those 4 characters being so popular (at least when I netplay), it'd be a non-issue, but... Millia. And its +64 according to the frame data, and taking into consideration that most wakeup times are 50f+, thats 100+ frames to do something. I'd imagine you could do 886>xx or sj falling j.S or something. Honestly wondering if with how + it is if you could do sj.236HS as a safejump in the corner.

[Tiamat]

ill test safejump right now from it...will edit in a minute

 

edit: safejump is possible from grab.  With this first recording I did with walk forward > 886 j.H only 2 hits of the jH are connecting but I can block sol's 623H wakeup. 

[rubedo777]

Is there a specific post here or somewhere else that summarizes each of his normals and special moves and what they do? The wiki is very incomplete and I don't want to read every post here to find that info.

 

When I first saw this character, I didn't really understand him but now that I watched higher level play, I'm very intrigued...I'm currently using Ramlethal and having a hard time (mainly due to her hard combos) and I'm really liking Bedman from what I see so I might make the switch.

[Tiamat]

Is there a specific post here or somewhere else that summarizes each of his normals and special moves and what they do? The wiki is very incomplete and I don't want to read every post here to find that info.

 

When I first saw this character, I didn't really understand him but now that I watched higher level play, I'm very intrigued...I'm currently using Ramlethal and having a hard time (mainly due to her hard combos) and I'm really liking Bedman from what I see so I might make the switch.

 

There were some old posts I saw but some info was wrong or outdated.  I'll try to just give you a simple one.  Frame data is on the wiki so I won't mention it usually.  

 

5P - anti air.  doesn't hit crouch except Pot and Bed

2P - fastest move at 5f.  good interrupt at close range

6P - anti air.  nice upper body invul  

j.P - fast air to air with good range for a P move

5k - can jump lows at some point.  

2K- fast low.  combo to 5H

j.K - air to ground move.  usually you want to gatling this to j.P or j.S

c.S - good for combos.  option select grab with 6S+H is good cause it hits above you nicely

f.S - good ranged poke.  jump cancelable.  gatling to 5H/2S/2H/6H but not 2D.  

2S - low goes to 5H or 2H.  much better damage low starter than 2K but quite a bit slower as well

j.S - lots of range can be used air to air or air to ground

5H - for combos mostly.  2nd hit is jump cancelable

1H/2H/3H - pick distance with the directional input.  1H is used in combos others are for zoning. They recover badly but as long as you don't whiff you can throw task A or 214+button

6H - cancels to specials.  crossup at close range.  has some strike invulnerability while he's teleporting

j.H - multi hit jump in move.  raises their guard gauge a lot and builds tension well

2D - sweep.  good range on it

5D - dust.  

j.D - used as instant overhead.  usually do it by pressing 9D.  RC for combos

 

Special moves:

236P - projectile.  ball will come back like a boomerang and hit again.  can tiger knee with 2369P to make it go across the floor.  if you block or are hit the ball returns immediately

236K - comes out more slowly than 236P but will teleport bedman next to opponent on hit or block and bedman will be at frame advantage.

236S - multi hit spinny move.  bad on block.  

236H - bedslam.  hits overhead on the way down.  air version sets out hte deja vu rather quickly after being activated so you can YRC and it will still set the seal out.  can crossup

 

214P - deja vu of 236P.  dunno what to say about this one.

214K - deja vu of 236K.  pretty cool for pressure stuff

214S - deja vu of 236S.  usually used after 236S hit for pressure

214H - deja vu of 236H.  not overhead like the normal one.  ground version is very good in the corner if you YRC it

 

sheep overdrive - unblockable stalker sheep.  better if you YRC as you're setting it out.  dizzies if it hits them

clock overdrive - reversal.  comes out kinda slow unfortunately and bedman can be grabbed after the flash or sol can VV him, stuff like that.  

[rubedo777]

What are these arrows and stuff appearing after some moves? How do they work?

[TD]

after any 236x special, a seal representing that attack will appear on screen, called a deja vu.. using a 214x special in accordance to the special used will cause said seal to activate. a second projectile bedman appears to do the same attack, leaving the original to move freely. this allows for an overall stronger game depending on where the seals are placed.

 

the seals stay in place for about 7 in game seconds, can be hit, and all are mid projectile attacks.

 

236s and  hs are harder to use in neutral no thanks to being unsafe in either recovery or startup, respectively. their seals are some of bedman's best attacks, though. meanwhile 236p is a strong attack while it's deja vu is a bit weaker.

 

ultimately they serve to augment his otherwise meagre pressure, and he relies on them to get going. once out they can pin the foe in blockstun, or keep them away in conjunction with his 8way dash and zoning normals. they are meant to create a unified, calculated offensive game to keep the foe guessing what bed will do next.

[QSpec]

Does Task A deja vu have any purpose regularly?

 

The only time I've found any use for it at all is if I have the seal in a unique position like high up.

 

I did win a match tonight after a guy jumped over the seal, and I was able to call it while it was both off screen and behind him. 

 

Though generally, I don't use it much.

[TD]

not really, no besides positioning purposes, maybe faster punishments.. it hits behind him if the foe is sandwiched between it and bed.  alot of times throwing the head from the source is just better. definitely more practical to depend on task a alone than with it's counterpart.

[OP8]

Does Task A deja vu have any purpose regularly?

 

 

I started using it some in my online matches tonight. I found it useful when the seal was placed in the air. Also if you use it when you are in front or behind the seal it will boomerang at odd points, and I caught a few people off guard that way. It seems like it can be useful if done in the right situations.

[Lynxfort]

This okizeme after 2D is actually character specific. 100% working on: Sol, Ky, Ramlethal, need to test on other characters.

  2K  clS.5HS.2D 236+K task B prime didn't work in Zato but   .clS.far S.5HS.2D 236+K  did.. but you have to be so close..also it works of you start the combo with clS..It seems that you have to combo Far.S to 5H. ETC.. to make it work..

[Alkipot]

 

What about throw game?

 

After a midscreeen throw I either go for the tried and true 236K, or walk up 6HS crossup > 236P as they wakeup (can cause wakeup Volcanic Viper/Grand Viper to whiff) if I have 50 tension for a high damage RRC combo if the 236P hits. I've been thrown out of 6HS though, dunno if it's a timing issue, but it can happen.

[Poultrygeist]

What are these arrows and stuff appearing after some moves? How do they work?

Those are Deja Vu seals.  TD went into more detail but in case you still don't understand, they are spawn points for the "Deja Vu" version of the move.  For example after you do Task B you can input 214S to have a ghostly Bedman spawn from the position of the seal and perform Task B himself.  If you perform Task B elsewhere with the seal present onscreen, the seal will move to your new position.

[madworlder]

Poultrygeist asked me about my opinion about Bedman staying close to the ground, so I want to discuss that in the general thread.

I don't mean that Bedman should not be jumping, but the higher up Bedman gets, the more difficult it becomes to reliably land safely. His options for getting frame advantage become more difficult to connect as he gets higher in the air. From high jump, it's better to wait until after your jump's peak to air dash, but it's slow and his jumping normals just aren't abusable enough to stop anti-airs. You may be able to use Tasks in the air to mitigate that. Regular jumping and moving anywhere besides up is very strong for overhead options and continuing pressure, especially from f.5S. I personally don't feel the need to go higher than normal jump height in most matchups. 

Task A Deja Vu is faster than a regular Task A. If you have the A seal out, I think it's almost always better to use the Deja Vu than a regular Task A. You can YRC it really early, too.

[Poultrygeist]

That makes a lot of sense.  Thank you for elaborating.  I always felt like air movement got us around faster because of our lack of a traditional ground dash, but yeah I guess we're pretty unsafe doing that.  

[Generic_Soda]

Task B at the peak of a superjump is about the only reason to go so high up because the rapid loss of height Task B causes is a decent out. People can forget about Task C seals if you use them at the peak of high jump + air movement, so it can be a surprise. I don't recommend it much though.

 

Also about ground throws I just go for 3H or A' after a midscreen throw, but I've been messing around with using delayed Task A instead. The opponent needs to block it right as they're getting up, and if you're feeling gutsy you can close in and throw out a 6H and the Task A will cover for you as it comes back. It doesn't seem super useful outside of pressuring somebody who's already so scared that they're just holding down back though.

[QSpec]

I personally don't feel the need to go higher than normal jump height in most matchups.

 

What do you do when they are above us and we are in the air?

 

On the ground, 6p > c.s > (stuff) is always solid, but if they get above us in the air, I never feel comfortable.  Is that just a "don't get in that situation" type of thing, or am I missing something?

[Poultrygeist]

You can't air to air with j.5P?  I've never been in that situation TBH.

[kinggoon]

This is probably obvious to us, but for the benefit of those getting into Bedman, for anything that involves air movement->attack you might want to try inputting the attack along with the air movement instead of after.  For instance, you want to do 886KS as if you were doing 6K as the move's input.  Not sure if this actually means anything or if it's a placebo effect, but it helps me land the whole thing better.

 

I literally signed up on this forum after a solid year of lurking to just thank you about this post.  I was always wondering why I couldnt do multiple J.S's, and now that explains it to me, and how even other character's IAD-normals look faster than mine when I input them, so thanks again.

 

I realized how much I undervalued 2S. It's a pretty good low and poking tool. I like to use it during the DV mixups when my opponent starts to see through my tried and true instant overhead shenanigans. 

 

I dont think I "undervalued" Sweep, but I definitely have an almost-reverse story compared to yours. 2S is amazing whenever we aren't in kiss-range. (which is a habit i still need to break)

[kinggoon]

...

What about throw game? Mid screen as I toss them I like to go 3HS and special cancel that into Task A Prime. Some people I fight online like to air dash forward to dodge, but get stuffed by 6P into stuff.

 

I have been doing a number of things.  236+K and 2369+K are both obvious and known follow-ups midscreen...

 

I've found myself just walking forward and then doing 6HS when they wake up, so that it will cross them up and I can follow with either 236+HS or 236+S, depending on if the first will wiff or not (will wiff on Sol, for example).  It's typically possible to hitconfirm off of the raw hit due to the amount of hitstun and larger-than-normal cancel window.  

 

Another option is dashing immediately, walking forward a bit, and then trying  98,1+K on the way down to fake the jump itself.  On many characters you can easily get J.K, 5K, 5HS(1), 2HS xx 236+P (or K)  [neither Task will combo, but it applies decent pressure for cancelling the slow 2HS)

[SectumSsempra]

Ground Dash is still amazing when used properly.

 

Escape wise, I find that the only decent escape he has besides dash is super jump height task B.

 

Air to air, I find jk js air task b is fine, or js js air task b

 

 

Ramlethal, chipp, millia and i-no are still nightmares

But i'd take any over an online ramlethal, because her damage is so high and because of her combos people abuse her p normal. I've literally just laughed at the screen as a ram just jppppppp before landing to get me in a corner, nevermind her absurd damage and dizzying ability. 

[madworlder]

What do you do when they are above us and we are in the air?

 

On the ground, 6p > c.s > (stuff) is always solid, but if they get above us in the air, I never feel comfortable.  Is that just a "don't get in that situation" type of thing, or am I missing something?

 

j.P is the best option for hitting the opponent in that case, but I don't see a reason for Bedman to be in that situation in the first place. You've got great ways to move back down to the ground (more than anyone else!), and Bedman's air options aren't good enough to warrant him trying to challenge people in the air if he can avoid it.