[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[SolheartStud]

I'm pretty comfortable with how Ragna is. It's like what you said WolfCrimson, with BS and Dash cancel DS his pressure is stronger. Damage and corner carry looks but most importantly he does look a lot more fun to play!

I've also noticed a lot of people playing Ragna in this version. More than I've seen him being played in previous versions so that's gotta say something! Although I am basing this off of Jourdal's and Pktazn's vids but it's still comforting to know.

[KayEff]

time to revive the ragna forums

[Lucalibur]

Gauntlet Hades follow up can't hit crouchers? No wonder everyone has been mashing after a blocked GH lately. Outside of that, most of the data seems to be what we expected. Blood Scythe is +5, aka positive even on IB, but it has almost 40 startup(doesn't stops Japanese players from respecting repetitive uses of it though).

It says Dead Spike is -1. That is for no dash cancel, right? Is the dash cancel version listed in there and I'm just being blind or is it simply not listed? Should be easy enough to calculate how positive it is since we have the data for Ragna's dash cancel(unless it was changed), but yeah...

[heavymetalmixer]

time to revive the ragna forums

Really appreciated.

[Fluck]

My calculations indicate that the mook's data for Dead Spike makes no sense. If the blockstun is only for 18 frames, then DS is not -1 regardless of if you dash cancel it or not. It should be more minus than that.

[Lucalibur]

My calculations indicate that the mook's data for Dead Spike makes no sense. If the blockstun is only for 18 frames, then DS is not -1 regardless of if you dash cancel it or not. It should be more minus than that.

I believe it is lacking the custom blockstun Dead Spike has. The mook says it's a level 4 move, which have 18 blockstun.

[TheBossGiga]

My calculations indicate that the mook's data for Dead Spike makes no sense. If the blockstun is only for 18 frames, then DS is not -1 regardless of if you dash cancel it or not. It should be more minus than that.

A few specials have specific blockstun values that override the basic level blockstun like hells fang for example that makes it -4 on block as opposed to the -15 its level implies.

[Spark]

My calculations indicate that the mook's data for Dead Spike makes no sense. If the blockstun is only for 18 frames, then DS is not -1 regardless of if you dash cancel it or not. It should be more minus than that.

I think the mook is missing the extra hitstop that the move applies to the opponent and not Ragna. It's probably something like 12F of hitstop to the opponent with 0 to Ragna. Since 18+12 would cover 30 of his 31F of recovery making it -1 on block.

[WolfCrimson]

Spark, what you say makes sense, but I thought hitstop only applies on hit?

The only explanation I can come up with is that -1 is the frame advantage on blocking the last active frame of DS.

[skd]

Spark, what you say makes sense, but I thought hitstop only applies on hit?

The only explanation I can come up with is that -1 is the frame advantage on blocking the last active frame of DS.

if youve blocked noel's revolver blast, thats a great example of a move with a huge amounts of hitstop.

(i think, im not sure. its level 2? im just reminiscent of ct burst guard point hitstop w/ revolver blast)

Edited April 4, 2013 by not_lunaris

[WolfCrimson]

Hitstop applies on both hit and block?

Well, I guess I learned something new today.

Also, WB SKD

So, what about dash-cancelling DS? Does the mook say what the dash cancel window is? Assuming you can dash-cancel immediately after startup ends, does that mean dash cancelling is always better, since you're decreasing the remaining recovery after startup from 31 frames to 22?

Edited April 4, 2013 by WolfCrimson

[Lucalibur]

Pretty sure the Hitstop applies on block as well. In CSE the only reason Dead Spike was +3 is because of the 8F hitstop on enemy(while Ragna gets none), otherwise it would be pretty damn unsafe. With that being said, I was expecting no-dash cancel Dead Spike to be less safe than just -1. Guess I was just overreacting to the possibility we can't meat with it anymore. We obviously still can, it's just not as good.

[KayEff]

what i'm more concerned about is what time frame ragna is able to dash out of dead spike. if he's able to dash right after the first active frame, we could potentially be talking about +7 after dc.

which doesn't make sense cause then they'd be giving ragna something good (and that never happens)

[MashThat5A]

What do the A,B,C etc mean for SMP?

[WolfCrimson]

Moves that have the same letter share SMP.

So Tsuika and OD Tsuika both are 2A, which means they share SMP.

[Cheefoo]

I remember seeing a Ragna do DS>DC>purple throw on block. It could've been at a range, though, and I believe that would make it more advantageous on block.

I'm surprised HF is still only -4. I thought it was a bit more punishable.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Cheefoo

[mAc Chaos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjuVvvEtS4#t=2h04m45s

this is the most ragna-like corner pressure i've ever seen

[Elochai]

That Ragna gives no fucks whatsoever. It's kinda enjoyable to watch.

[LuminAbyss]

what i'm more concerned about is what time frame ragna is able to dash out of dead spike. if he's able to dash right after the first active frame, we could potentially be talking about +7 after dc.

which doesn't make sense cause then they'd be giving ragna something good (and that never happens)

Just curious, how did you calculate this? Did dash cancel data change?

[BlackYakuzu94]

That Ragna is amazing, gives not a single fuck.

[TheBossGiga]

Question. when a move has an smp value of 3 does that mean that you can use the move twice in one combo before smp kicks in or that it doesn't prorate as severely as a move with a smp of 2?

[skd]

Question. when a move has an smp value of 3 does that mean that you can use the move twice in one combo before smp kicks in or that it doesn't prorate as severely as a move with a smp of 2?

a value of 3 means that there is a 360f reduction from combo time. 3 is "worse" than 2.

Level 2 is 240f, level 1 is 120f/

[-Kid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjuVvvEtS4#t=2h04m45s

this is the most ragna-like corner pressure i've ever seen

Wow.

[floatwater]

What SKD said, and the lvl 3's i believe it's 22C and hid CT

[TheBossGiga]

a value of 3 means that there is a 360f reduction from combo time. 3 is "worse" than 2.

Level 2 is 240f, level 1 is 120f/

ah thanks i was hoping i'd be able to go calamity trigger mode and spam 22c in combo's but it makes sense. How does smp dmg work now does it prorate regularly and only untech gets shafted or does everything get hit?