[UNIEL] Vatista

[gli]

Just saw the actual reason.

 

Yep. UNIEL has SOCD issues.

 

If you have a controller such as a HitBox or just a normal dualshock you can do what Diveman has posted and get the same results.

 

For reference:

SOCD - Simultaneous Opposite Cardinal Directions

[Tigre]

Are we sure it's that and not a case of SOCD?

 

<edit> didn't see the reply on this page lol

If someone could test it that'd be sick, I'm going to be away from my console for the next two days...

 

<edit 2>Just because you have a hitbox does NOT mean you can abuse SOCD. the PS360+ and Cthulhu boards have had SOCD patched out for a while, so it depends on what firmware you are running on the board. Newer firmware cannot do this.

[Sashi]

I was doing it on a stick. I tried it on a pad right now and it's tons easier. I did easily 50 in a row when I had trouble doing 10 in a row on a stick.

[gli]

Haha, I'll eat up any theory out there -_-

But, it doesn't seem to abuse SOCD.

 

If this were true then I could do something like walk forward and hold down to charge flashkick and then I could let a flashkick rip while moving forward (this happened in ST HD Remix)

 

The only thing I was able to get from this was how early you have to input a button after a charge to get a move to come out.

 

I tested and got 11 frames (from input viewer in the game) to input the direction + button.

So try holding down for flashkick, walk forward for <=11 frames and press up + button. If you do it right you can move forward a little bit and flashkick at the end.

 

So in general:

• Fulfill the charge time for a direction.
• Once fully charged, you have up to 11 frames to input the opposite direction and a button to activate the move.
• Within those frames you are free to do whatever you want so long as you are able to actually do the move on the 11th frame.

[gli]

Alright, more testing stuff.

 

You have to be mashing really fast to get a constant stream of lasers and orbs to come out.

 

I tried:

Hold Right on the Left Analog Stick and press Left + A or B. Once any of the 2 moves come out, start tapping back + A or back + B as fast as you can.

I was able to get 2 Lumens, 1 A Laser > 1 B Laser, 1 B Lumen to come out back to back.

[Sashi]

I was able to get 50 laser A and ball A in a row on pad. It's easier if you time it rather than mash.

[Errol]

Ban?

[Diveman]

so this pretty much is pad only? I don't see anyone pulling this on stick without looking like the kid who played vs Daigo.

[gli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yxzS8tqnXo

 

on pad just mashing as hard as I could fffff

[Raidou Kuzunoha]

That right there shows how broken this girl would be WITHOUT being a nutty charge character.

 

I'm 100% sure that dude must be scratch his how on how you just turned the game into Touhou.

[TheArm05]

It is doable on stick.  I can't reliably get the exact projectile I want to come out yet but I am sure the timing would come with practice.

 

This shit will RIP my stick though if it is let rock.  I wouldn't use it much just based on that alone.

 

As far as I can tell (testing on pad and on stick) there is no way to charge down while you do this. As long as that isn't possible I don't think this is really gamebreaking. Just makes Vats zoning go from meh to pretty good.

 

I don't care if people want to ban it though. It'll save me a stick or two in the games lifestyle and its whatever anyway.

[Ayane]

I have a first gen ps3 only hitbox as well as a ps360 one. I don't have the first one with me atm but I will test the newer one for SOCD in a bit.

[brett_]

this isnt pad only fyi. I rewired one of my buttons on my stick so that it sends a left input, and I was able to reproduce it decent in matches (did a bit of ranked earlier today).

 

Not a Vatista player but I might as well mention that as a field report >_>

[-Kef-]

So, now what? How are people gonna deal with this?

 

I don't know how someone could "ban" this. Restrict the amount of specials she can have active at the same time? Lol

 

Hopefully this is being addressed to the developers so they can look to fix this, hopefully before the patch arrives (even though it is probably too late).

 

EDIT: Contacted the UNIEL main twitter account and one of the developer's twitters. We'll see if we get any response.

[Sashi]

It'd be pretty easy to ban. You can clearly see the other guy mashing. It's completely different from charging normally.

[-Kef-]

It'd be pretty easy to ban. You can clearly see the other guy mashing. It's completely different from charging normally.

 

I guess that's a good point. I still think it is a little awkward to ban, but I am pretty sure no one is attempting this at a tournament.

[TheArm05]

TBH I could use this in tournament. With a little more practice I am sure I could get it rather consistently.  Also someone like PAIN (played pad Vat already) can and most definitely would use it if it isn't banned.

 

The main thing is... It really isn't a big deal lmao

 

1. You can dash block in this game

2. You get free vorpal and tons of meter for shielding the spam

3. Chip sucks

4. The only method to charge down while doing it (that I have heard so far) gives up the ability to alternate lasers and fballs

 

For most characters it just means they have to dash block in and approach a little slower.

For Akatsuki and Hyde (who really had no business trying to zone Vat in the first place) it means they can't try to fireball war you.

 

A banning wouldn't be hard to enforce at all. You could look at their hands and tell immediately and anyone who knows Vat could tell after two fireballs just looking at the screen.

[brett_]

I agree that it should be allowed till it is proven to be problematic. It pretty much guarantees vorpal, and its important to note that since there are gaps in between each move, the shield you perform is the free version, so you're gaining a ton of meter too. They're all air blockable so you can totally just jump forward shield over and over too. Some characters have pretty decent ways to deal with it anyways.

 

I will say however, with regards to TheArm's #4 point, is I believe if you have extra buttons set properly to 1 / 3 and toggle / mix them in rather than doing 4/6, you may be able to also DP on demand (not sure,, just speculating). 

[gli]

I'm with TheArm. I am reminded of the kneejerk reaction to CS1 Makoto Parry Loop. It's weird but... this is a fun quirk at best.

[Raidou Kuzunoha]

Guys like Gordeau, Yuzu, Wald, and Merkava who have long reach can punish it if they get the chance.

 

Merkava more obviously can either fly over it or just straight up grab you. Since IIRC his grabs can go through projectiles since I saw a match with Wong playing as Linne and his arms just went through Kuuga.

 

Could be wrong though.

[Celerity]

I agree that it should be allowed till it is proven to be problematic. It pretty much guarantees vorpal, and its important to note that since there are gaps in between each move, the shield you perform is the free version, so you're gaining a ton of meter too. They're all air blockable so you can totally just jump forward shield over and over too. Some characters have pretty decent ways to deal with it anyways.

 

I will say however, with regards to TheArm's #4 point, is I believe if you have extra buttons set properly to 1 / 3 and toggle / mix them in rather than doing 4/6, you may be able to also DP on demand (not sure,, just speculating). 

 

I tried it by holding 3 instead of 4, and I was able to get the constant stream of energy balls followed by a flash kick on command when I went to [3]8 instead of [3]6. If you use this method, however, you can't get any lasers.

 

Edit: Actually, I was able to get balls and lasers rolling by starting with [4]6 and then sliding my thumb down to charge [3] in midstream for a flash kick, but you still need to hold the charge for the full 55 frames or whatever, and can only get energy balls during this time. It's not as difficult as I imagined, but it forces me to hold the pad like a dysmorphic monkey.

[UltraDavid]

Do you think it's practical to use this tech to block overheads while retaining charge for flash kick? Hold downback, see overhead, keep holding back & block overhead while moving the stick to upback, then downback again?

[Fatalis]

If you see that they're doing the overhead, you're probably better off just flash kicking.

 

I'm not sure there's a scenario where it would be better to block the overhead, when you could just flash kick them out of the overhead and reset the situation back to neutral.

[Errol]

if you can truly see the overhead.

 

how exactly does this work? can someone explain it?

[Essay]

If you see that they're doing the overhead, you're probably better off just flash kicking.

I'm not sure there's a scenario where it would be better to block the overhead, when you could just flash kick them out of the overhead and reset the situation back to neutral.

There are overheads in this game that out-range her flash kick though, and force her to break charge to avoid.