[UNIEL] Seth

[spiralfang]

So I wanted to know whats the best way to go about opening people up with seth

[Stellarcircle5]

So I wanted to know whats the best way to go about opening people up with seth

Generally you want go about getting in by forcing people to either block or get hit by an orb. An orb, as you already know, nets you a free combo on hit. When you have people blocking you have the advantage with your powerful close range normals. 2A and 2B are your main low openers. j.B and j.C are your overheads. Always remember that Seth's throw is really good in the cornerl and leads to more pressure. You can utilize your turbo fall and teleports in tandem to disorient your opponent and make them press buttons for a counter hit (ex: blockstring > 214 > backdash > assault > 22, Hyde whiffs DP because you crossed over him and you get a full punish. In the corner (and in many cases midscreen) you can use your turbo fall for tricky setups like empty jump > assault > 22 > 2B/throw. Your ability to throw out "fake" mixups is really good, so use this to mess with their head. Also remember you have command grab, so if your opponent isn't pressing any buttons, you can just do something like j.2C > j.214B > CS > combo.

Hopefully this will help put things in perspective. If there is one thing I love, it's mixup theory, so I could go on about this all day.

[spiralfang]

Thank you im definitely gonna take notes im really trying to learn him and his bnb a lil difficult any tips if you can tell me

[Stellarcircle5]

Thank you im definitely gonna take notes im really trying to learn him and his bnb a lil difficult any tips if you can tell me

All I can say is experiment with how long you are delaying the j.214A > 214 link. That is what made learning his BnB hell for me. It took me days of doing it over and over before I got it consistently. Other than that I'll say what anyone else would say, just grind it out. Once it's part of your muscle memory you'll laugh at the fact that you ever had trouble with it.

[spiralfang]

Okay im going to lab all day hopefully ill get result i was thinking of making a line group for seth if anyone is interested

[brett_]

So I wanted to know whats the best way to go about opening people up with seth

 

what I've had the highest accuracy with are the following:

 

Off of 6C > 236B Knockdown:

 

Dash up 2A etc, jump forward (while orb is incoming) 22 land 2A/2B. Generally I time it so even I cannot tell which side it is on, but the sameside version seems to hit very often. Similarly, point blank jump forward assault immediately cancel into fastfall 2A hits A LOT.

 

dash up meaty string into 5C > 236C > orb comes in > react to what they do. if they ground blocked just unblockable them. if they air blocked, air unblockable them. if they jumped, anti air them. 

 

In the corner, off of 6C > 236B knockdown:

 

Forward jump falling j.C > j.6C > j.214B unblockable. This is pretty impossible to avoid without a DP or shielding properly. either way, you can always go for other mixups (j.C > j.214B, j.C land 2A, bait, etc etc)

 

Corner blockstring that pretty much has worked almost every time

 

stuff > 6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214BB > air backdash (into corner) > j.C (corner crossup) > Orb Hits > combo etc.

 

Going ham with 214A also works really well for messing with people.

 

stuff > 214B4B > j.214A > 214AA > 214BB > j.236B > air backdash > j.214A > 214C > j.B > j.6C > j.236B > j.214A > 214AA > 214C > assault > air backdash directional influence j.C on either side > land 2A > repeat.

 

j.214A > command throw works if they respect, though easily mashed out if you dont want a yellow throw. If they mash, j.214A > 623A/B etc.

 

if they're not very familiar with seth, going ham with j.214B works well too.

 

also for whoever said that seth's throw leads to more pressure, you actually can't really get there in time to meaty, at least not with 5/2A. maybe dash C, but I need to test more. 

[Justice7541]

What are his air options after hard teleport (i.e. 214) and orb set? I feel like there's more I can be doing to get those orbs out other than just setting them and yolo running in.

[HKSpadez]

You gotta see this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJDHWlhf3RY

hey guys. at 1;00. how does he 214B and end up on the same side...?

[dere]

Hold 4 while the move is in progress.

[Azul]

Does anybody have a stable ender off of j.214A＞214 starter? I can't figure out where to delay 6C＞j.236B＞j.214A＞623B＞DashC so that the orb hits consistently

 

[Koga_Noid]

After about a day and a half of strictly lab work with this guy I started grinding some matchups. Yuzu is probably my favorite but holy hell Gordeau. Aside from Grim Reaper being dumb the dude can space me out for days and I have a rough time getting orbs off. Still working on ways to open people up and working on some blockstrings, I'll keep the 214X stuff in mind, thanks for that huge write-up Brett.

[StrawberryGL]

Thanks a ton Brett/Vista! I learned a ton in just a few minutes from those posts. As for matchups i'm going to agree that Carmine is one of my worst so far.

[spiralfang]

Omg the gordeau match is so hard are there any tips on this

[LordSpectreX]

Any suggestions on how to stop people like Carmine from jumping and pressing j.C out of your pressure? Every teleport option gets beaten by chicken block j.C, and I can't really find a way to punish their jumping reliably at longer ranges.

[o Nereus o]

Omg the gordeau match is so hard are there any tips on this

My best advice to you is to shield block when possible. Shield blocking is basically this game's version of Instant Blocking from BB. For example: If Gordeau does his 623B as a wakeup... and your a bit far away, you can SB it and punish it with Seth's Dash C. If he does his 623A on block... you can punish it up close with Seth's 2C as well as his 5B. 

[spiralfang]

Thanks i appreciate it

[chemical ninja]

Does anybody have a stable ender off of j.214A＞214 starter? I can't figure out where to delay 6C＞j.236B＞j.214A＞623B＞DashC so that the orb hits consistently

For me there are two things I could do. you could doj.214 a, land 2c into bnb as sort of a hit confirm if they block it just 214b.as for the timing to delay on j.214a , 623b try to wait one or two nanoseconds then 623 b ive had trouble with it to before grinding it out for 5~10min...hope it helps and my notations werent horrible.

[Hon Si Zi]

I'm having a weird time linking 214B-B after j.214A. I can get it off of j.214A raw, but I can't seem to get it in combo. Specifically 5A 5C 214C-C 6C j.236B j.214A 214B-B

[o Nereus o]

I'm having a weird time linking 214B-B after j.214A. I can get it off of j.214A raw, but I can't seem to get it in combo. Specifically 5A 5C 214C-C 6C j.236B j.214A 214B-B

I've said this in a earlier post, but pay attention to when Seth's ascending and descending after his j.236B. The moment he's descending is when you do his j.214A. Also, you can cancel his j.214A into his 214B the moment it hits iirc.

[heavymetalmixer]

UNIEL official Seth guide (subbed by Fragarach)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmovgkgW5KE

[spiralfang]

I'm having a weird time linking 214B-B after j.214A. I can get it off of j.214A raw, but I can't seem to get it in combo. Specifically 5A 5C 214C-C 6C j.236B j.214A 214B-B

I was having the same problem now I as soon as j.214 I immediately 214.b and its works for me

[brett_]

Any suggestions on how to stop people like Carmine from jumping and pressing j.C out of your pressure? Every teleport option gets beaten by chicken block j.C, and I can't really find a way to punish their jumping reliably at longer ranges.

 

If you teleport and blink to the ground (A), you should be able to at the very least Shield, if not time a 3C (I need to test this out a bit). Remember that shielding just gives you a free punish on jumpins for the most part. Don't forget that you can also just make an orb after a B followup, rather than A diving. Raw cancelling into 214C with no followup should also beat a lot of slow mash like jumping out. You can also do things like throw in 6C to make them guess more about when you're actually going to go for teleports. I'm pretty surprised that that j.C can beat out an immediate A Dive from a teleport though - didn't know that lol.

 

 

Omg the gordeau match is so hard are there any tips on this

 

If he does Dash C into 22A (shoulder tackle into scythe drop), which is a very common blockstring ending in frame advantage, you can actually mash out a 5A in between. It'll beat out his 22A and it will also beat out his command throw. Obviously loses to 22B and also if they cancel into the command throw early to force a yellow throw, you may forget to tech it since you're mashing 5A. Overall it's a good thing to remember to do on reaction to blocking his Dash C to keep him honest. 

 

His 2C beats 214BB > j.214A, so be sure to mix it up by doing orb instead of dive in the air, or even maybe the C followup, as well as the A followup. The A followup is really good for people who try and call out your shenanigans with poking. Be aware that throws beat stuff like 214A. The same goes for Gordeaus that mash 3C during teleport, which is equally obnoxious since it will make your dives whiff etc. Use A followup or set orbs to prevent this. You can also use j.214B to call out mash as well, provided you're not in range of the flailing.

 

In general, the A followup property is very unexplored I feel, and proper can actually help you get in! From far range, if you think they're going to randomly grim reaper or press a button, you can do 214B~A and you'll blink to them, catch their normal, and auto throw them! I haven't messed around with it TOO much yes, but it's worth a try (you need to kind of hard read what they're doing though).

 

While in Vorpal, 623B > CS is very useful, as with any long range matchup. Be aware that there's no invincibility, and you can definitely be hit out of it (I've been hit out of 623B by Gordeau's 2A lol). Still, getting in is pretty damn important.

 

Know what is minus on block from gordeau (Mortal Slide, Grim Reaper, etc) and know when you should be closing in the gap. Seth definitely wins in speed so try to learn what ranges you can challenge him with dash 5C / 5B / 5A

 

If you think he's going for a command throw, call it out rather than attempting to tech it. assault or jump forward j.C or tk j.214A etc. Make sure you get rewarded when you call him out.

 

Bait 3C (the sweep). That move is pretty obnoxious and it's easy for gordeau's to get addicted to outfootsie'ing you with this move alone. Don't let him.

 

I'll probably write more about punishing grim reaper later on, but for now that should hopefully help.

 

Does anybody have a stable ender off of j.214A＞214 starter? I can't figure out where to delay 6C＞j.236B＞j.214A＞623B＞DashC so that the orb hits consistently

 

Much like the actual dash C bnb, you want them as low as possible when you dash C. rather than inputting it as 6, 6+C, input 66, and watch for their falling body, then press C when they get to the right height.

[spiralfang]

I was wondering if we should learn all his bnbs of the wiki or study rions combo vids and learn from there since they seem the most optimum

[Justice7541]

Incidentally I found out that since Seth's dive hits crossup after a teleport, doing orb set > teleport over > start dive > orb hits will make the orb cross up as well.  My guess is that crossup protection is negated the instant you start the dive from the other side which in turn gives the opponent much less time to react to the crossup itself if you're timing it right.

[o Nereus o]

Brett has been putting in mad work on this forum man, much props to you sir.Two questions here... 1. Shouldn't we update the wiki with these combos? and 2. Are you guys up for making a skype group for Seth?