Meaty Moments Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 what i do when it comes to lag and the clap loop, is the noob clap loop. (let go of D RIGHT before B+C, that way the clap finishes before the grab connects, which just bounces the opponent up like a regular air grab, but still protects on early grab breaks. rinse and repeat, i don't bother with the [air dash~re-grab, relaunch crap] anymore) and if you memorize the timing, you can just make adjustments with lag during a really bad match. It's hard to explain, but the combo takes a consistent amount of time in between each air throw, so if you just do the combo like you would offline in training mode, and not pay attention to what the screen's showing, the combo still works 100%. I got this from playing Hilde in SC, her game plan revolves around one combo too, which takes similarly strict timing. NOTE: since it's lagging, they won't time their throw break correctly, and you just have to be ready with a gear super for the relaunch (or cross your fingers and do the 66, 2C the old fashioned way) haha i doubt this is even useful to anyone but me, as it is one of those things you find out for yourself, but whatever. I HOPE IT HELPED!
Ca$$iu$ Check$ Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Hey Kyle, I know you already made a note to yourself a few posts back to update the 101 thread. Just wanted to put a reminder up to add combos that involve 3C -> j.2C alle~can to the alle~can combo section. I haven't tested all of them out for myself, but it looked like from the vids that they allow you to still combo after 3C, passed the point where 3C -> 2B -> 2C turns into a black beat. So you could do things like several reps of whatever ground loop you prefer, into 2B -> 3C, or just 3C, then j.2C alle~can, into clap trap (by jumping up immediately into air grab), instead of limiting your ground loop to one rep in fear of the combo turning into a black beat and allowing escape before you can transition into clap trap. Also I think there was a carl only 3C -> j.2C alle~can combo mecha-sue used you can add too. I think it was something like 2A -> 2B -> 3C -> j.2C alle~can -> j.B -> dj.B -> allegretto. I think, unless there was a 5B in between the j.2C alle~can and the j.B like when you combo from cantible. The vids are so blurry here on this computer at my job it's hard for me to say for sure until I can test at home. Note: I'm not talking about the 3C -> IAD combos. What I'm talking about is 3C -> j.2C alle~can from the same side, no cross up. Also, I was letting the jump cancel be implied after 3C, let me know if you want me to edit this post to include it for clarity.
krknight Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 thnx 4 this. anyway, you mightmention 'dj' stands 4 'double jump.' i couldn't find it anywhere n the dloop guide.
Vowtz Posted August 21, 2009 Posted August 21, 2009 Nice guide! Really good explanation of the clap trap. helped a lot!
Urkelbot Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Hey guys, I'm brand new to Carl and I need some newbish help please. In this combo, 1. - 2A->5B->6B->623C->5B->jc->jB->dj->jB->jC/j214C Why can't I get the 623C to connect after 6B? Also, if you just hit 5B->5B doesn't it do the same thing as 5B->6B? For me they both do the mid flag to low flag combo... so is there a difference between the two? Thanks!
Ca$$iu$ Check$ Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Hey guys, I'm brand new to Carl and I need some newbish help please. In this combo, 1. - 2A->5B->6B->623C->5B->jc->jB->dj->jB->jC/j214C Why can't I get the 623C to connect after 6B? Also, if you just hit 5B->5B doesn't it do the same thing as 5B->6B? For me they both do the mid flag to low flag combo... so is there a difference between the two? Thanks! The 623C may not be connecting because you are executing it too late. Don't think of the combo like a sequence of moves where one begins when the previous one ends. You actually do the input for the next move while the current move is hitting, so that you cancel (shorten the animation of the current move, bypass the recovery) that move and immediately begin the next, while giving the opponent the full amount of hitstun so that the next move is guaranteed to hit, if the start up of that move is less than the opponent's time in hitstun (which shortens a tiny bit for each successful move you land in the combo). So maybe you're doing 623C too late, try doing it while 6B is hitting and it should land. Yeah, 5B -> 6B and 5B -> 5B are the same thing. You can't do 5B twice in succession in one combo, so when you input it, the 5B gets forced into 6B.
Zoogstin Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Yeah I use to have the same problem. You have to input the 623C sooner than you think.
SonicTHP Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Also, the fact that Haku's counter super is completely unblockable displeases me. If I let him get the meter for it, I can't use Nirvana to bait him. He just counters, and I diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeee. If it matters to you, a super jump -> double jump -> Allegretto gives you enough aerial time to avoid Hakumen's super counter. It leaves you pretty open on landing, but it may be better than taking the hit. Pretty much anything less means you are gonna eat it.
MisoSowee Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 If it matters to you, a super jump -> double jump -> Allegretto gives you enough aerial time to avoid Hakumen's super counter. It leaves you pretty open on landing, but it may be better than taking the hit. Pretty much anything less means you are gonna eat it. even a single super jump easily goes over yukikaze. then you have a double jump if you're an idiot. then you have allegretto. lol. a lot of people don't understand that yukikaze's hitbox isn't THAT vertical.
4Corners Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Ah. Thought it was completely unblockable. Cool. Now I can use Nirvana again. :D!
Urkelbot Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 The 623C may not be connecting because you are executing it too late. Don't think of the combo like a sequence of moves where one begins when the previous one ends. You actually do the input for the next move while the current move is hitting, so that you cancel (shorten the animation of the current move, bypass the recovery) that move and immediately begin the next, while giving the opponent the full amount of hitstun so that the next move is guaranteed to hit, if the start up of that move is less than the opponent's time in hitstun (which shortens a tiny bit for each successful move you land in the combo). So maybe you're doing 623C too late, try doing it while 6B is hitting and it should land. Yeah, 5B -> 6B and 5B -> 5B are the same thing. You can't do 5B twice in succession in one combo, so when you input it, the 5B gets forced into 6B. Thanks for the advice. When I was trying this combo the training dummy was Carl and it WOULD NOT work... but when I switched to Jin I could get it everytime... is this harder or impossible to do against carl? Also what would you recommend for a good starting combo to learn with carl and Nii-san... so far I only know just Carl combos...
4Corners Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Carl-Opponent-Nirvana [2a, 5a, 5b, 5c, ]d[, dash in/viva]*n (recommended reset at 2 or 3) That's a pretty basic combo that can later be tweaked for more damage/throw loop set ups. Plus, it works as a crappy pressure string. :D Nirvana-Carl-Opponent 5a (optional) 5b, 6b, 623c, 5b>2]d[, viva/b, (2c>8]d[)*3 A little trickier, but this combo is pretty solid. Also, you'll be able to put it into the throw loop later. :D Carl-Nirvana-Opponent 5b/5c, 6]d[, viva>loop of choice Pretty decent combo, pretty good damage, and puts them between you --- Learn pressure strings ASAP, and learn how to force people to get between you and your robot. After that, just make them block once, and the match should go in your favor pretty quickly. From a pure theoryfighting world, in which we are all perfect and amazing, anyway.
Zoogstin Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 After playing a ton of matches with a couple of our players in the BB scene I've come to this conclusion. You know, as much as us Carl players enjoy the sympathy and hardships that come with playing a character with a lot of poor attributes and still winning with him. It still doesn't take away the fact that CARL IS A RETARDED CHARACTER WHO NEEDS TO GET FIXED. I swear I feel real dirty playing this guy sometimes. With or without the throw loop.
axel Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 After playing a ton of matches with a couple of our players in the BB scene I've come to this conclusion. You know, as much as us Carl players enjoy the sympathy and hardships that come with playing a character with a lot of poor attributes and still winning with him. It still doesn't take away the fact that CARL IS A RETARDED CHARACTER WHO NEEDS TO GET FIXED. I swear I feel real dirty playing this guy sometimes. With or without the throw loop. What makes you think so? You think he's worse than Eddie?
Zoogstin Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 No he's not. His range is garbage and so is his damage without Nirvana. But the throw loop is something no character should have. I feel bad when the person next to me gets pissed because they worked so hard to stay way from me and slowly chip away my health only for me to come back with his trap. With that said, I can still beat anybody who's smart enough not to put themselves in that situation. How do I do that? I just stand behind Nirvana. And make them do what I want them to do. Maybe I was just letting certain peoples comments get to me. I'm playing some really good people but the way one person put it, Carl is no different from the top 3 in the sense that he has something that he can just hide behind, rather than fighting someone man to kid. I don't know. Anyways Carl is fun and I love playing him, but he definitely deserves his A tier position. LOOOOOOOPS!!!!!!!
4Corners Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Haters gonna hate. Don't let them get you down. Litchi has her staff, Jin has IB uppers, and everyone ever has enough damage output to bury a Carl that makes one too many mistakes. Carl is shit without Nirvana. No need to feel bad because we hide behind our robot. That's like Cable feeling bad for AHVB.
Kyle Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Zooga is right. Carl is now officially a DUMB character. I spent LOADS of time recording stuff (33 vids) this weekend everyone. SERIOUS combos. This shit is better than Kyaku's vid. I promise. =) I've already ripped them to avi, cropped and titled them. I just don't have access to a video editing software yet to combine them all into one massive video file. =/ post e-mail if you want a sneak peek.
Zeero Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 really? I think Carl is garbage and the only thing he can actually use in a gameplay is his throw loop, everything else is no good. No matter how hard i try its pointless trying to get into a good range coz you're probably outzoned. You're better off sitting there waiting for them to come in and make a mistake. But that doesn't work either because u probably have lost more life so they end up sitting there in the corner for 99 seconds. And unfortunately because i don't have perfect execution, landing that 1 hit doesn't help sometimes. The difference between Carl and the other top3 is that while the other top 3 sits back and hits you with stuff, you're hiding behind nirvana getting stuff hurled at you and you can't do anything about it. I honestly think Carl is overrated, i'd say hes mid at best, no way top with his shitty range/priority/damage (minus throw loop) But then again, i'm playing people where essentially: 1. ground pressures don't work on them, they know how to get out. and this even includes 236236D. 2. they sit back and chill and just out range you the whole fight 3. they can tell whether the throw loop is gonna be successful or not, so they don't even bother breaking the ones that work and just sit there and watch me fail 4. they know their combos... and 4k on average on carl isn't pretty.
Code-Nana Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 ^ Almost everything you just said is a complete lie. If Carl's only weapon was the throw loop, then how are people still losing to it? Also, only scrubs hide behind Nirvana. Carl is a great offensive character. You just need to know what you're doing. I rarely ever even use the throw loop. Clap loop? Yes. But I've gotten as far as I have without depending on the infinite. B is your friend by the way.
4Corners Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Zooga is right. Carl is now officially a DUMB character. I spent LOADS of time recording stuff (33 vids) this weekend everyone. SERIOUS combos. This shit is better than Kyaku's vid. I promise. =) I've already ripped them to avi, cropped and titled them. I just don't have access to a video editing software yet to combine them all into one massive video file. =/ post e-mail if you want a sneak peek. zealousentropy@gmail.com Don't ever hit me up on it, though. I just use it for files and junk mail. Can't wait to see this shiz. :D really? I think Carl is garbage and the only thing he can actually use in a gameplay is his throw loop, everything else is no good. No matter how hard i try its pointless trying to get into a good range coz you're probably outzoned. You're better off sitting there waiting for them to come in and make a mistake. But that doesn't work either because u probably have lost more life so they end up sitting there in the corner for 99 seconds. And unfortunately because i don't have perfect execution, landing that 1 hit doesn't help sometimes. While I dunno if I agree with above poster entirely, there is something you ~could~ do. Just tag them with a jab/one hit of fueco, and then hide behind your sister. Once you have the life lead (pretty much any time that it's not Haku, low-wind Rachel, or Nu/Kune), you can go into full-fledged defense mode and force them to come to you. Also, I was a bit gone, but I watched Carl vids and took a BUNCH of notes. Something I noticed with good Carl players is that, in most match-ups, they don't approach. Nirvana does. Once she gets far enough along the screen, they set up either an SRK or clap/4]d[, and come in behind it while the enemy is dealing with it. Wanna close distance? SRK+karacan iad does wonders. Also, if the situation is EVER Nirvana-Opp-Carl you have a huge advantage. One blocked 5c=pressssssssuuuure. If they're escaping because they IB and then jump out or something, why don't you just not do the move? They'll go to IB, and you can walk up and grab them while they're still confused. The whole thing with IBing is to prevent just one pressure string from working unconditionally. Spice it up. Throw in some tick-throws. Don't do moves. RC into stupid stuff. Abuse the hell out of j2c. That reminds me: I'm starting to think Carl's best non-Nirvana move is his j2c. Seriously, this move does everything. Why haven't we named it yet?
Kyle Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 My guys named gear super: "The Population Of China" too funny. Just listen to Carl :laugh: Vids done. 597MB. 10:04 LOL gotta shrink the quality up a lot to stick on youtube.
4Corners Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 You should toss the HQ version on megaupload or something. I'd luff you foreber.
SonicTHP Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 even a single super jump easily goes over yukikaze. then you have a double jump if you're an idiot. then you have allegretto. lol. a lot of people don't understand that yukikaze's hitbox isn't THAT vertical. It's not vertical, but it lasts way longer than it looks like it should and is still completely unblockable (as far as I have seen). Then again, Jin's 623C has enough invulnerability to make the whole thing whiff... Also, I am interested in seeing the Kyle video...
Kyle Posted August 24, 2009 Posted August 24, 2009 Edit to first post of Combo thread. Edit to first post of Video thread. Edit to Gameplay post of 101 thread. Closed a few threads.
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