[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[FlyingVe]

I believe you can combo into astral off of a normal 6C (6C>(DC)Black Onslaught) but the timing is pretty strict. My favorite is 6A(CH)>(JCC)>Onslaught because jump installing the astral isn't hard, the timing is lenient, and using 6A as an anti air makes counter-hits easy.

[Sol.Badguy]

Ah thank you! I haven't tried JCC ing yet because it sounds difficult and I don't understand it too well, but basically I do 6C, 2141236, then jump cancel out of 6C quickly?

[Kain]

Nah. You Dash Cancel 6C, then JCC Black Onslaught. You Jump Cancel Cancel by Tiger Kneeing the Black Onslaught input (Sagat TK in SSF2T was something like 2369/412369, the idea is the same here) IMO, the easiest combo for me to do is 5C>3C>Black Onslaught, because JCCing the 3C works best for me and it's easy to hit-confirm into. If you're not used to 3-frame windows, though, it's more risky than useful (you literally have to do it before their feet even leave the ground, but AFTER 3C sweeps them).

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Nah.

You Dash Cancel 6C, then JCC Black Onslaught. You Jump Cancel Cancel by Tiger Kneeing the Black Onslaught input (Sagat TK in SSF2T was something like 2369/412369, the idea is the same here)

There is no reason to JCC the Black Onslaught off of a dash cancelled 6C. Just do the Astral as soon as you recover. You only JCC if you're doing Black Onslaught directly from 6C in the corner.

BTW, can we please stop using this JCC term? It's crap and unnecessary. Either call it a Tiger Knee or a JI (Jump Install) if you want to keep it in the family.

[Final Ultima]

Well, I guess it's my bad for using it in the 101 and the combos thread, but I feel that it's a rather self-explanatory term. I don't use Tiger Knee in those instances because for combos I always denote Jump, Dash or Rapid Cancels, and if something ends in, say 6A/3C (JC), TK 214B, it implies leaving the ground.

I had considered calling it Jump Install, but I've always considered the defining aspect of the term Jump Install to be the fact that it restores a jump option, and that a Jump Install involves a Jump Cancel Cancel, but the two aren't necessarily one and the same. Using Order-Sol as an example (pardon the brief off-topic), I'd consider something like Level 1 Gun Blaze, dash 5S, 5HS into high jump and then double jump, Jump Installing, but fully charged Level 3 Rock It into Level 3 Strum Viper, Jump Cancel Canceling.

It's just semantics, really.

[Sol.Badguy]

Yea, I've been practicing for a bit now. I've gotta say I really like the 6C, DC, Black Onslaught. The timing is pretty strict, but I've always been good at the timing so it's not too much of a problem. I just need someway to combo into 6C because from what I've tried you have to hit them with the time of your sword, otherwise you dash past them :p. Oh, and thanks for the TK idea, Imma go try that cuz the JCC is pretty tough IMO

[VR-Raiden]

Oh, and thanks for the TK idea, Imma go try that cuz the JCC is pretty tough IMO

They're talking about the same thing, it's actually not too difficult.

Just do the astral as 214741236C

so you go to upback instead of just back during the motion.

[Final Ultima]

I think if you go up-back, you'll jump before the C unless you skip some directions on the way. 21412369C works better in my opinion.

[VR-Raiden]

Oh, I meant that's how I do it after a jump-cancelable move (like 3C or 6A) to make it work. I'll try that way though, it probably is easier.

[CrownEmpress]

A bit late but I'm having trouble landing the 6A in (corner) ~3C 5D DC 6A 5D 22C. Was probably answered already but I'm not up to looking through 119 pages :V

[OhsuAkira]

A bit late but I'm having trouble landing the 6A in (corner) ~3C 5D DC 6A 5D 22C.

Was probably answered already but I'm not up to looking through 119 pages :V

I tend to use advance input to get the 6A out as fast as possible and then delay the 5D a bit with that one.

[CrownEmpress]

Which 5D, the first or the second?

[OhsuAkira]

Which 5D, the first or the second?

The second.

[Kain]

This is actually nothing new. 5C has a proration of 100% as a starting hit, hence why it does more damage if you leave 5B out in a combo. It's just that you don't use 5C to hit-confirm your combos, as on block, unless you cancel into something else, you're looking at -21 recov. frames. 623D is used as a combo ender simply because of the life drain, and there's no reason to use 623C as an ender because it's not worth the extra damage.

[redsilversnake]

This is actually nothing new.

5C has a proration of 100% as a starting hit, hence why it does more damage if you leave 5B out in a combo. It's just that you don't use 5C to hit-confirm your combos, as on block, unless you cancel into something else, you're looking at -21 recov. frames.

Yeah, I typically only land it right after the frames for a counter hit (such as after blocking Bang's 3C), so it is pretty rare that I get that combo in an actual match. Didn't know it had that many recovery frames, though.

623D is used as a combo ender simply because of the life drain, and there's no reason to use 623C as an ender because it's not worth the extra damage.

Like I said, while the extra damage is insanely minimal, I'd say the life drain is even less so, except maybe with BK active.

[Final Ultima]

Merged into General Discussion because I don't think this warrants a new thread. If 623C is resulting in more damage than 623D, it'll be because you did a combo in which Inferno Divider only hits once. The second hit of 623C does more damage than the second hit of 623D, but because of proration, 623D will do more damage if both hits take place (unless the combo gets exceedingly long), even though both versions have the same added damage. In short, if you get close enough to hit twice, 623D is the best of both worlds. If you decide to go for 623C though, remember that it covers less vertical space than 623D, so some combos will make it difficult for you to connect with the Upper afterwards.

[redsilversnake]

Merged into General Discussion because I don't think this warrants a new thread.

If 623C is resulting in more damage than 623D, it'll be because you did a combo in which Inferno Divider only hits once. The second hit of 623C does more damage than the second hit of 623D, but because of proration, 623D will do more damage if both hits take place (unless the combo gets exceedingly long), even though both versions have the same added damage.

In short, if you get close enough to hit twice, 623D is the best of both worlds. If you decide to go for 623C though, remember that it covers less vertical space than 623D, so some combos will make it difficult for you to connect with the Upper afterwards.

I see. I almost always get a HJC on 6A and wind up using j.C>j.D on the second jump, though, so I pretty much never get both hits no matter which version I use. However, that could be for the same reason Belial Edge can be teched if you do that in CS. I'll go back to Training Mode and see.

[Blade]

Posting this here since I don't think there's any other place for it: DMG: 7521 Although this is a Throw combo, keep in mind the method used to do it, its useful for tacking on damage to hard to hit opponents like Tao or maybe Jin, won't work on everyone. Requires 50%-100% Heat, Towards Corner, but not too close. Neutral Throw (or 6C), quick 214B, delay 214D, late 5B, 6A -hjc. jC,jD, JC Airthrow (very late 623D just as they fall below you), 236C, Rapid Cancel, Airthrow, late 623D, 236C, Rapid, Airthrow, late 623D, 236C, 214C. The Inferno Divider, Upper, Rapid, Airthrow can be used midscreen in some situations, and you can airdash after for more options such as another Airthrow. Its risky, but it can work.

[Final Ultima]

It would go in the Calamity Trigger Combos thread, but I won't move on account of purple throws = huge no-no. If you're gonna post a combo that can be broken out of without Burst for reasons other than execution errors, you may as well take that train of thought to its logical conclusion and post combos that disable teching altogether. In Continuum Shift, purple throw combos are considered invalid. I'm hoping that in itself will prevent people from posting stuff like "j.B+C x infinity" when Continuum Shift gets released and I open the new combos thread.

[AFRICA]

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7004/ragnacolorchart.jpg

Originally posted by Spirit Juice, thanks go to him.

sweet nice colors..

[Edge Reaper]

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7004/ragnacolorchart.jpg

Originally posted by Spirit Juice, thanks go to him.

Aw. No more Joker...

[Final Ultima]

Aw. No more Joker...

All good things must come to an end.

Also, I've updated the Ragna the Bloodedge 101 thread to cover some of the confirmed or otherwise well supported changes between Calamity Trigger and Continuum Shift. Look for the stuff in bold in the first post.

A very important change that I think everyone should take in is the change made to Soul Eater. It may feel like a bit of a nerf at first, with moves mostly draining less by default than they used to, but realise that the longer the combo, the more worthwhile it gets. Certain Blood Kain combos now result in more health than you started with even without Yami ni Kuwarero.

Big thanks to Veteru for helping me realise why Ragna's health gauge during that Final Sky combo vid had been bothering me so much.

[Edge Reaper]

A very important change that I think everyone should take in is the change made to Soul Eater. It may feel like a bit of a nerf at first, with moves mostly draining less by default than they used to, but realise that the longer the combo, the more worthwhile it gets. Certain Blood Kain combos now result in more health than you started with even without Yami ni Kuwarero.

Yeah I was wondering about that. It did sound like a nerf to me at first but it was like "wait a minute...". So it heals a set amount even with damage scaling?

[ryokoalways]

In CT, the health gained is based on damage dealt, so you don't want to drag it out. In CS, it seems that health gained is just constant across any hit (something along the lines of any D hit gains 500 health). This is why 214214D heals so little, and also why regular blood kain combos heals more than it use to.

[FlyingVe]

Thanks Ryoko I had noticed something different about the CS life gain, but it definitely varies depending on the attack (for example the GH follow-up doesn't seem to gain much life). That plus the decreased damage (for non-litchi's) is actually making ragna's drive look a lot less... bad.