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Chaos Code

AtTheGates

By AtTheGates
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Tenryo

Tenryo

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Posted (edited)
The overall balance isn't overwhelming, despite how silly the game can look at times. Can you explain some of the reasoning behind some of these matchups? It isn't too hard, matching up normals and tools side-by-side, to see why Bravo has such a hard time with Cthylla for example. But what gives Kagari an advantage over MG Hikaru but not regular Hikaru? Rui over Vein?

And according to the JP community, what are the weaknesses of the bottom two (Hermes, Cait + Sith) that keep them from being stronger? It's apparent when watching videos that they struggle, but I don't understand in particular why Hermes is so bad.

With her tools, Kagari has great control over the air. MG is a character that has below-average air-to-air control despite having a decent j.D and Deno Raida Kyaku, and the few anti-airs he has are at best unreliable. His bad matchups are surrounded by characters who can either jump in on him safely all day, or have superior air-to-air spacing.

Hermes is a very good character if you play her strategy, but her two main flaws are lack of damaging combos to the point where she has to eventually get in for real damage, and her lack of legit corner carry despite having massive potential in corner combos/oki. Cait & Sith were capable of so much in previous versions...but their nerfs in v.1.02 were so severe that they were literally pushed from S to B.

Vein's main goal at midscreen is a knockdown to get his fireball-teleport vortex started. Some characters like Cthylla have a very hard time getting out of this, for she only has roll as her only true escape option, which can be easily baited, otherwise she has to block and/or TG accordingly. Vein's bad matchups are involved with characters that can safely get out of his mixup and shutdown his initial gameplan completely...Rui is one of them. She can simply dodge on wakeup without having to worry about any execution error of any kind, which leaves Vein at a disadvantage...for the only thing he can do at that point unless he gets the confirm is zone or anti-air.

Edited by Tenryo
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Tenryo
Tenryo

Hello again. I've been seeing a lot of people come to these random and (mostly) negative assumptions, which is why I'm here, so let's talk. I'm here to clear a few things up. You're all probably a

TAI-X
TAI-X

I strongly object to any official use of Twitter or Facebook to gauge interest in a potential release, especially when it's seemingly going to make or break the initiative. Some of us aren't into the

TekkamanArk
TekkamanArk

Chaos Code hits PS4 in November, announced at Toushinsai Also, new version with more characters in Arcade next year

Mr. Kimura

Mr. Kimura

Posted
Posted

I got beat by a Vein player pretty badly and I'm supposed to be the guy to go to lol

Still working on matchups... tonight was a bad night so far. MG Hikaru bodied me too. How are the Vein and Hikaru mathcups for Kagari on paper? I read that I can pretty much jump in on MG for free?

Tenryo

Tenryo

Posted
Posted (edited)
I got beat by a Vein player pretty badly and I'm supposed to be the guy to go to lol

Still working on matchups... tonight was a bad night so far. MG Hikaru bodied me too. How are the Vein and Hikaru mathcups for Kagari on paper? I read that I can pretty much jump in on MG for free?

In most cases, yes, unless he selects his 2nd extra special move, which has TONS of super armor. MG can delay the release of the fist by holding the button, and net great counter hits from it, but selecting that will greatly gimp MG's combo potential, so the only true anti-airs he'll have is either 2C or his 236 + K, which isn't really reliable. Air-to-air is terrible for MG if he doesn't have his 2nd extra ultimate chaos, for at that point, the only thing he can poke you with is his j.D or his air projectile. When players select his 2nd EXUC, they are most likely trying to bring balance to the matchup. Your objective with Kagari should be to always keep MG grounded and somewhat immobile.

Kagari vs Vein is somewhat tricky, slightly in Vein's favor due to his superior anti-air game. The ground is your friend in this matchup. Stay on him, and don't be too predictable with your jump-ins. Vein's DP is hella good, and his 6A puts fear into the hearts of people, even his f.C can anti-air if you're poor with your jumps. If you're pressuring him in the corner, he will try to get out with either C DP, EX DP, or EX teleport. Keep yourself aware of this when applying corner oki.

Edited by Tenryo
Mr. Kimura

Mr. Kimura

Posted
Posted (edited)

Alright I'll keep that in mind. Everyone here is on the same level really, just mashing til things work. The MG Hikauri armor move really is something that I wasn't prepared for. Usually if he gets in on me I'm just not aware of what to look for. Next time I'll look to see what my friend chose for his Extras to show you what I'm up against.

I've been meaning to ask about Kagari's 22A/C special, do you think it could help in any of those matchups? More so Vein? Its kinda gimmicky though. I'd hate to have to get rid of air shurkiens, or one of my supers that I usually choose. Also I've noticed I'm not good at staying in with Kagari cause I tend to autopilot 214A/C even on block. The 214K's seem gimmicky too but they sometimes work if you do it right. Thought the D version usually gets me countered (C+D) when I hit a button. Guess its time to hit less buttons when I do that.

Another redundant but good question is, what are Kagari's best ground tools, especially in the Vein matchup?

Edited by Mr. Kimura
OutlawVinegar

OutlawVinegar

Posted
Posted
With her tools, Kagari has great control over the air. MG is a character that has below-average air-to-air control despite having a decent j.D and Deno Raida Kyaku, and the few anti-airs he has are at best unreliable. His bad matchups are surrounded by characters who can either jump in on him safely all day, or have superior air-to-air spacing.

Hermes is a very good character if you play her strategy, but her two main flaws are lack of damaging combos to the point where she has to eventually get in for real damage, and her lack of legit corner carry despite having massive potential in corner combos/oki. Cait & Sith were capable of so much in previous versions...but their nerfs in v.1.02 were so severe that they were literally pushed from S to B.

Vein's main goal at midscreen is a knockdown to get his fireball-teleport vortex started. Some characters like Cthylla have a very hard time getting out of this, for she only has roll as her only true escape option, which can be easily baited, otherwise she has to block and/or TG accordingly. Vein's bad matchups are involved with characters that can safely get out of his mixup and shutdown his initial gameplan completely...Rui is one of them. She can simply dodge on wakeup without having to worry about any execution error of any kind, which leaves Vein at a disadvantage...for the only thing he can do at that point unless he gets the confirm is zone or anti-air.

Thanks for the detailed response!

Though I've been somewhat keeping up with Chaos Code since the initial arcade release, I'm still new enough to fighters that I sometimes forget how single-minded some character's gameplans can be. Now that you mentioned it, I can take a step back and see that Kagari's aerial normals and specials are faster and cover decent space compared to MG Hikaru's air game. Deno Raida is his 'upside down, down-angled' energy move, right? The startup seems a bit too slow to be a useful air-to-air. Knowing that Vein's gameplan is largely about midscreen knockdown oki makes his matchup chart much clearer as well, since his 4/6 matchups all have reliable escape options (Celia II can teleport out presumably, and Cerberus has a selectable reversal[?] and good moves in general).

With Hermes' flaws, it sounds kind of like she's an incomplete character by design. Does that seem right? Her ideal situation is one she can't actively or easily force her opponent into, and it looks like her normals are a bit subpar for competing with most of the cast. Cait & Sith were pretty common and a strong choice during the first release of the game. I remember their infinites, 100% stun loops, and decent spacing game, but now that the game is in version 1.02 I've never seen them played, so I wasn't aware of the extent of the nerf. The only one I'm aware of is cooldown on some of Sith's delayed attacks?

If you feel like answering any additional questions, I'm curious about Cerberus and Catherine (the latter of which almost seems like 'hidden top tier'). Cerberus is very obviously a strong character, he's got very good normals that complement each other, wide versatility with his built-in moveset and selectable specials/supers, and what look like pretty easy Exceed near-ToD comboes (though Rui's seem really braindead...). Is there anything I'm missing? As for Catherine, I'm a little unclear as to what his gameplan is. He's got pretty much every tool he needs (Bell summon, 'Bunnysuit tarzan' air-to-air, 'Devil stooompu' air-to-ground, and his schoolgirl command grab), and even a Genei-jin. It kind of looks like Catherine players just want to build meter and play their matchups by ear?

xlolxlolx

xlolxlolx

Posted
Posted

i wouldnt say his gameplan revolves around fireball oki or 2d oki, maintaining at least 1 stock with him makes him really scary especially if you pick command throw cuz thats a guaranteed unblockable combo and ending in an air combo usually ends in vein's favor because of his anti airs especially if he has 1 stock for imitsuki, and he can turn most hit confirms into pretty good damage

Tenryo

Tenryo

Posted
Posted

I also uploaded the other tutorials/combo videos from Nico to Youtube for your convenient viewing pleasure. All rights belong to the original uploaders.

Fate's Celia II Kai Combo Tutorial - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuYRaX4eMYo

Nepi's Rui Mishima Combo Tutorial - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii_LXhS5C40

Vein Combo Movie - In Heart of The Stone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE83KXDzaPM

Console test featuring Bravo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXuQA88IK3M

dsinnie

dsinnie

Posted
Posted
As for Catherine, I'm a little unclear as to what his gameplan is. He's got pretty much every tool he needs (Bell summon, 'Bunnysuit tarzan' air-to-air, 'Devil stooompu' air-to-ground, and his schoolgirl command grab), and even a Genei-jin. It kind of looks like Catherine players just want to build meter and play their matchups by ear?

basically, sometimes i just run and throw bells and music, sometimes i run in and mixup the schoolgirl throw for the air combo.. depends on the matchup. i wish there were more Catherine players here so i could discuss shit.

Ragnorok64

Ragnorok64

Posted
Posted
Anyone check the wiki thats at the end of the Rui video? It seems pretty filled out. But Google Translate is a miserable little pile of words and loose translations.

http://www48.atwiki.jp/chaoscode/

I've been trying to make sense out of it but, as you mentioned, Google Translate isn't too helpful. I do find it funny that it translates Ruin's name as "Louis."

Sent from my MOTWX435KT using Tapatalk 2

Zephyrion22

Zephyrion22

Posted
Posted
basically, sometimes i just run and throw bells and music, sometimes i run in and mixup the schoolgirl throw for the air combo.. depends on the matchup. i wish there were more Catherine players here so i could discuss shit.

I think Catherine is one of those character who don't excel neither at zoning/spacing, nor at rushdown. So yeah, he is really MU dependent. Most of his specials have a really good range and are safe if spaced properly, so your goal is to get a knockdown and rush, or evade if the attack is blocked( EX pom-pom girl and j236k are really helpful, especially on counter hit). Once you get the corner, you can use EX bell as oki : combined with rolls, command throws, devil stomp ambiguous cross-ups etc, you can score more knockdowns. Catherine is not that good at full screen, so bells are more a way to keep your opponent on his toes than a true zoning tool. Notes are mainly used to prevent your opponent from getting up close (No true DP for okama-san, so you don't want to end up blocking stuff). Again, that is my opinion on Catherine so feel free to add stuff xD

The Katz

The Katz

Posted
Posted
I also uploaded the other tutorials/combo videos from Nico to Youtube for your convenient viewing pleasure. All rights belong to the original uploaders.

I should get around to finishing my video, then... :sweatdrop:

Mr. Kimura

Mr. Kimura

Posted
Posted (edited)

Yeah, this Manji combo tutorial is eye opening. Time to watch more of his match videos. Seriously, this guy is amazing.

I would have never guessed that I could combo off of 2D with 623A raw like that, if I really wanted to I could EC and do really dumb stuff given I have the meter.

Also I've been meaning to ask about Kagari's 22A/C (Oboro) move, apparently its active or something on frame 1 according to Google Translate on the wiki I linked. Or at least I guess that's what it was trying to say? I rarely see anyone use it but it seems to be useful (though not as useful as air shurikens). Hell, the air shurikens are used in Manji's EC combos, giving them more importance from what I see.

Edited by Mr. Kimura
Fujiwara

Fujiwara

Posted
Posted

xD Am I the only person who plays Celia II here?

I wish I had a pvr.. I've found some cool shit, too.

Keo-bas

Keo-bas

Posted
Posted

She seems too strait foward for my tast. If it was'nt for top tier shennanigans would'nt she be top?

Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2

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