Furok Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLQQKMkayG8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OILXpwiwmqY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrVz6NBzicc
KrazySh0t Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-nPYqE8twc A few matches between a friend and I. Nice matches
Grifter Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Since no one has posted these yet (which I'm rather surprised), here's some vids off Goldenrody's account. DB Aikouka (Noel) vs 0 (Hakumen): Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5TahDc7iOk Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLhQSACMrTI Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_k3GlpdHyc Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ1k7P3eOG0 Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vot325lmOgU Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2JJ7ifCfyg DB Aikouka (Noel) vs Nikudaibutsu (Tager): Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_4SJjV24_E Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFeIMe56A7E Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlRVOL32wuw Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbecRhB75PI I can safely say I want to be DB Aikouka like Bang players want to be DORA. Why does he juggle with 22BB sometimes? Lower bounce?
dragontamer Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Hmm, good question. I do know that 22BB has more than 100% proration, so if you can manage to fit it in, it is always worth it. My question: WTF? You can use 5b effectively as a poke?
Senovit Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Dat range man. I wouldn't use it to poke out of a string but it's not bad when both of you are in neutral.
zaeris Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Hmm, good question. I do know that 22BB has more than 100% proration, so if you can manage to fit it in, it is always worth it. My question: WTF? You can use 5b effectively as a poke? are you sure its not 22BC besides from Bang I not sure if tagers weight permit 22BB
Runis Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 the B doesn't prop them up ever if I recall. Still if you can ever fit a 22BC into a combo, it just means you're gonna be doing more damage. 22B is 103% proration, and 22C is 110% from data, which is why the Rachel combo does so much damage =/, by the time you're at the 5D part you're at like 150% damage bonus.
Grifter Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 didn't know about 22bc! so the next obvious question is, why wouldn't you use it more?
Runis Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 AFAIK, only some characters can be 22BC'd. Others can tech too early.
archling Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 If you're mid screen, 22B before the C pushes the opponent back, so it's tricker to land the dash in 6C after multiple 22Bs. At the nominal 22C range though, 22BC should work on everybody.
kimcicle Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I know I drop a lot of combos in this video, but I think it's pretty representative of my current playstyle with Noel. I was wondering if any of you Noel gods could give me some tips and advice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAA_U1C0MAs
E For Eugene Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 I know I drop a lot of combos in this video, but I think it's pretty representative of my current playstyle with Noel. I was wondering if any of you Noel gods could give me some tips and advice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAA_U1C0MAs Damn, nice match. Especially second round ;O Also, nice not getting 720C'd. Most matches with MikeZ he always 720s the noel ;( Uhh i'm not really good so my tips may not help >_>. I would 22C 6C loop a bit more. You get get Tager with about 3 or 4 22C 6Cs and end it with an air combo. 3C is really dangerous against tager whenever you close. You should use it when your far enough so that the tip of the gun is the only thing hitting him. I ALWAYS get grabbed whenever im close and a 360B always gets me whenever i try to pressure. Moves like Noel's 3C 2C J.C and all of the moves which hit with the Gun's can be beaten with the sledge. Er, thats all i know. Hope it works ;o
archling Posted August 20, 2009 Posted August 20, 2009 C moves and D moves counts as projectiles which loses to sledge. Refrain from using these within sledge range. You're also playing very unsafe and taking unnecessary risks with out of combo 3Cs. A few times is OK to remind them that you have that option, but the move is generally really punishable, so you really shouldn't do it out of combo without RC. Also, take advantage of mashing 5A more. First step you should take though, is to really get your combos down, especially the ones that end in knockdown (bloom trigger knocks down). That lets you control the flow of the match and maintain pressure. Once you get your combos down, your risk taking will actually have some merits. Second thing to work on is your defense. You're eating hits far too cheaply. I didn't see any setups or pressure on you that would force you to make a mistake. You just ate everything, lawl. Knowing when to attack and how to defend is a big deal, but that should come with experience.
WayINside Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 here some of my noel's matches from last week. i feel like there isn't too many fancy things there, and it was kind of and tourney so i went for a bit shorter combos. but still and reference for them would be nice. this week i was pretty high while i was playing (sick, not drugs ) so i want share those vids here.. (though some may still be on my account..) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJxk5z_kEi4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSJfKanF4Gg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnmLd4bDSIY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-rXLEO8CEQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjdLzv27XSM
Grifter Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Some local tourney grand finals with me. I'm a nervous wreck the first couple games - dropping combos, forgetting to use safe stuff, pressing D like a madman. Played him earlier tho and felt I could get away with more. Please critique and help me improve! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5paxvUW0_9I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dypdagudd1o
WayINside Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 actually, pretty sweet noel, your mix ups are nice, and it's looks like you adapt very quickly to the events (i liked your burst guarding) couple of things i noticed: 1) you should get rid of the habit to burst early (but maybe it was due tourney pressure) you lost one round for it, and almost another, just take it easy ^^ 2) i don't, but i feel like your D pressure is a bit predictable, be ware you can get punished hard for it. 3) again i guess it tourney pressure, but anyhow, wait a little bit after 6C in order to hit the D lower, so it will land as a "real" combo. 4) you should step up your D combo, you predict with it well, then go for: D C 6C C 6C 214A 2B 6C tk 214C. also try to go for that combo after Counter C. except for the first, it looks like most of those notes are just slight correction. again, sexy noel you got there
dragontamer Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Yeah, you definitely got a lot better in the later matches. Bloom Trigger is much safer than Flash Kick when your opponent is blocking. You dropped a few 3Cs, which of course is a lot of missed damage. Random Fenrir don't work well in my experience >_< But I always get nervous and try it anyway. The air distortion seems safer vs Nu at least. --------- In all the matches, the only BNB Drive combo that you seemed to get down at all was Noel's corner combo (5D -> 5B -> 6B -> 5C -> 6B -> Bloom Trigger). I would suggest practicing the midscreen combo a bit more. It is useful in more situations, and only does slightly less damage than the corner combo. Not to mention, the midscreen combo works in the corner anyway. The key is to continue the 6C BC loop until your opponent is as low as possible. Once you do that, the timing is approximately 5D->6B->5C-> (wait) -> 6B -> 5C -> Bloom Trigger. The opponent is stuck in a lot of stun after 5C, you have to wait for him to fall if you want to combo into 6B. You had a few 5D counter-hits. When you manage to do this, stop and think. Your opponent will be stuck in stagger stun for over 60 frames. This is enough time to do 5D (counter-hit) -> Reload Guns -> Run up to opponent -> 5D -> 6C -> 214A -> 2B -> 6C -> short air combo. (Or anything really, over 60 frames of stagger stun. Do your worst). As a semi-pressure string continuation, after 2C, you can sometimes run right at the opponent and then do another 5A -> 5B -> 5C -> 2C routine. 2C leaves you in +1 frame advantage, and Noel's 5A is one of the fastest jabs in the game. (6C is also an option if you want to just smack their guard libra really hard really fast) An overly defensive opponent will eventually be guard crushed, and if not, he'll be losing barrier guard fast. If they can read your mixup 100% of the time (this Nu seemed to be able to react to the 3C and 2D mixup), then do the 3rd option: Be stupid and charge at them again. It is often times much safer than a 3C anyway. If they start mashing to take advantage of the "hole" between 2C and 5A, then start throwing 2D and 3C at them again. 2D beats them out if they mash lows (lower body invulnerability from frame 1 !!!), and 3C beats them out if they mash highs. Edit: the 2C mixup goes a little bit beyond just 2D for overhead and 3C for low. The +1 Frame advantage gives you many options. Running up for a 5A (or 6C) generally beats them out if they are too defensive. Staying where you are and using 5B will make your opponent's jab whiff you, and still gatlings into 5C -> 2C for another mixup opportunity. And as noted above, 2D and 3C ought to beat out random mashing. Your eyes are much faster than mine btw, good job rapid canceling your attack to block the barrier. You are probably a better player than me, but nevertheless, the above is what I can gather from those videos. ---- you should step up your D combo, you predict with it well, then go for: D C 6C C 6C 214A 2B 6C tk 214C. That is indeed a lot of damage, but I don't think that one works on Nu. It works on Jin, but if you set the training dummy to Nu, she'll recover between the (drive) C -> 6C.
Grifter Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 Thanks for the input! A couple responses: - against back-dash happy nu's, my seemingly random fenrirs are slightly less random - early bursts were nerves and some leftover GG reflexes I'm shaking off but the last round, I just wanted to end it and it somehow paid off (would not recommend!) - working on my D pressure, but constantly forgetting to switch to certain moves like 214d - I know the mid-screen combo well, but mad at myself for screwing up the delays constantly in that set - 5d > 6c > 5c > 6c I don't think works on nu...anyone know exactly who it does work on? - my constant 5c's were fishing for the 5d 6c follow-up...had success with that in my previous nu sets but really a bad idea anyway - almost every far flash kick was a messed bloom trigger...trained myself in sf4 to hit uf/ub for an extra input and that's hurting me here - gonna try fishing for CH with 5d but I'm afraid to wait too long on that cuz there's not really much time to react on 5d hit-confirm, IIRC - good call on the options after 2c - I had that in mind by the tourney but it was new to me so I had not worked it in yet... I've been formulating my options after 2c but putting it in words helps a lot Again, thanks guys. Any more critiques would be welcomed.
Senovit Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 The chain between 5C and 6C in drive is techable by every character except Jin. Poor guy. So on him, you can do 5D 5C 6C 5C 6C 214A, on everyone else you're going to have to do 5D 6C 214A.
E For Eugene Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 The chain between 5C and 6C in drive is techable by every character except Jin. Poor guy. So on him, you can do 5D 5C 6C 5C 6C 214A, on everyone else you're going to have to do 5D 6C 214A. Wait, on counter hit or can he just not tech it at all? I keep forgetting about this move >_>.
Senovit Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 He can't tech it at all, 5D counter hit or not. Everyone else can tech 5C 6C whether or not 5D was a counter hit.
WayINside Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 He can't tech it at all, 5D counter hit or not. Everyone else can tech 5C 6C whether or not 5D was a counter hit. are you sure? what a lol and i though noel had 5200 on everyone :8/: btw, critisize my noel too
dragontamer Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 are you sure? what a lol and i though noel had 5200 on everyone :8/: btw, critisize my noel too You are wiffing a lot of attacks. Learn your range, use 5B when you are outside of 5A range. Whiffing 5As just leaves you open to a stronger, longer range attack from Tager. You hit a crouching Nu with 2C. 3C only combos from 2c if the opponent is crouching... but at least twice you missed the opportunity. If the opponent is crouching, but is hit by anything... then combo into 3C and then 22C loop their sorry ass. In your first three videos, you never did a 2C -> 2D mixup. It probably isn't too safe vs Tager, but it has potential for high damage. If your opponent is in the corner, or if you are close enough to the opponent, then 2D -> 28D -> 6C -> BNB can work as your "high mixup" option. If you've conditioned the opponent to block your 3C low, it is an option, but good players will learn to react to both in time. I only viewed the first three, so yeah...
Senovit Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 I didn't watch the videos until just now, so some comments: To Grifter: Even against backdash happy Nu's, I still find random fenrir's to be really unsafe... unless they backdash as you're doing the move, they'll have enough time to either end the animation and block it, or they can just throw a sword at you for a full combo. Against backdash happy Nu's, I prefer IAD'ing right towards them after a knockdown and using the air distortion in hopes that they backdash on wakeup. Still not safe either since they can knock you straight out of the air with a 632146D or what have you, but at least it's a lot safer than a ground distortion. Yeah, random bursts are pretty bad, but I think the reason it paid off in that match was it made the other player a lot more aggressive. I noticed he basically stopped blocking after you bursted, probably in an attempt to get any kind of damage on you. Even if it was unintentional, it worked nicely as you said. I would also advise against using 214D. Depending on how used to fighting Noel your opponent is, 214D is mad unsafe. I developed a bad habit of using 214D every once in awhile while the opponent is blocking, and tbh it's not all that hard to see. The risk Noel takes doing a 214D just doesn't seem to be worth the little bit of damage she gets. I think one good use of the move though is that using it once or twice on the opponent will keep them on their toes and hopefully concentrate on blocking rather than countering if you happen to be stuck in a blocked Drive loop. But still... 214D is rather meh. If you get a 5C counterhit, in my opinion it'd be better to go for 3C 22C as your followup rather than 5D. The only time I use 5D 6C as a followup to a counterhit is after a 6C or 5D ground CH. I haven't actually looked at the data but I think 5C CH 3C 22C 6C drive combo should do more damage than 5C CH 5D 6C 214A 2B 6C air combo. I could be wrong though, so if I am, just ignore this statement. :v As long as you're in the mindset for fishing for a CH with 5D, it's really not as hard as it might sound. Plus if you don't get a CH they probably blocked it anyway. To WayINside: Everytime you land a 5A, you should go straight into 6A 6C etc. etc. rather than doing the gatling combo, it'll do more damage and can lead into anything the gatling combo can. Against Tager, a full screen distortion might seem like it's safe, but you have to be careful, especially since you were magnetized. Even though he sledged there, you can get punished by his 2D into a (techable) 720. It's happened to me before, and I was too surprised at it happening to tech the throw, making me eat dirt :v. Even if you're aware of it and tech it though, you still eat a bit of damage from the 2D and your magnetism gets renewed, so I wouldn't really suggest using it. I know it might be hard to react to, but if you happen to be magnetized in the air and Tager is atomic collider'ing, you can try to double jump or j.D. If you hit with j.D and land next to him (pretty much only when he is in the corner) you can spring raid into a bnb. I'd also be careful about running straight up to Tager to 5A, just because it always seems to get me 360'd, although you were safe for the most part (besides the first throw). And yeah. That's pretty much it.
WayINside Posted August 23, 2009 Posted August 23, 2009 actually most of my casual matches are against that tager, so i know more or less where are his 720 setups. but he sweep now to jin or rachel so it will be more challenging from now on thx for the comment, you are right about the 5A combo thingy, i just to lazy to hit confirm it in time :P i don't like to start depends on 2D since it is noticeable, once in a while might be good. but still, i need to improve my drive shenanigans
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