[Xrd] Axl Combo Science Thread

[Digital Watches]

Actually, I got a pretty easy version of this combo to work.

 

5K-6P-2D-623S (RC), run 6P-2S-TKB, c.S-6P-2S-TKB

184 and knockdown on sol, works consistently, and is super easy to time. Without having to use a charge move, throwing 6Ps into your confirms will net you more damage than c.S will, and we get the same damage from the c.S-6P variation as the 5P-6K-2S, but without all the fiddliness for the knockdown.

[Shadow Ninja 64]

I was doing the 5P-6K(2)-2S(2) thing at the end because I was starting from Axl cornered and ending midscreen. As far as I've ever seen, a c.S won't connect in that case, but I'll give it some tries anyway. I can definitely see that working well when you make it to the corner, though.

Anyway, just so I have something of substance to add with this post, I noticed that, if you're cornered completely, you can do something like:

(2D XX) 623S RC dash under c.S-2S(2) TK Bomber, (5K-2S(2) TK Bomber)x2

So I guess if you're cornered and land a desperation DP, there's a pretty decently damaging option that reverses the situation nicely.

[Digital Watches]

Sick, I love out of corner combos

[Shadow Ninja 64]

Sick, I love out of corner combos

You have a lot more leeway with Rensen~up as far as side switch combos go since you have like an hour to run under and do the c.S-2S(2), but you won't get three Bombers if you combo into Rensen like you do there with the DP.

[APinkBuny]

Noob question about these combo's. Are the XX notation's cancels?

[Shadow Ninja 64]

Noob question about these combo's. Are the XX notation's cancels?

Yes, special or super cancels.

[Digital Watches]

I think so, but ugh, don't use that notation. A cancel should be indicated with a hyphen (e.g. 2D-623S)

[APinkBuny]

Yea first time seeing that XX notation thanks.

[Justice7541]

2P confirms anyone? Looks like 2P Rensen doesn't combo on counterhit so 2P Rensen RC combos aren't really viable. I'm thinking our best bet is just 2P > super > dash in c.S 5H 2D Rensen? Not sure if that's even possible if they mash the stagger properly.

[Shadow Ninja 64]

2P confirms anyone? Looks like 2P Rensen doesn't combo on counterhit so 2P Rensen RC combos aren't really viable. I'm thinking our best bet is just 2P > super > dash in c.S 5H 2D Rensen? Not sure if that's even possible if they mash the stagger properly.

Counterhit 2P Rensen is one of the first actual Axl trials in Challenge mode once you get past the ones that are just single moves. It doesn't work on normal hit, though.

After Shark Strike, you can get dash in 6K(2) c.S 5H 2D Rensen~up on everyone that I've tried it on except Faust because of his hitbox during his spin stagger thing. That works off both 5P and 2P starters and also lengthier starters like 5K 3P f.S, and it's not black beat or anything so I assume no amount of mashing would escape it as long as your timing isn't off.

[Justice7541]

Er yeah, I meant to say that 2P Rensen doesn't combo EXCEPT on CH. My bad.

Also I think the game will give you a red beat even if it's possible to mash out on stagger; you get red beat if it combos on a level 3 stagger recovery setting IIRC even if it wouldn't combo on level 4. Not sure how realistic level 4 stagger mash really is but Shark Strike is about as obvious of a MASH THEM BUTTONS CAUSE YOU GON GET STAGGERED tell as you're going to get in this game.

[Shadow Ninja 64]

I went ahead and set the training dummy to quickest possible stagger recovery, and 5K 3P f.S Shark Strike, dash 6K c.S 5H 2D Rensen~up worked just fine. As a footnote, that does 160 on Sol and recovers about 13% Tension just from eyeballing it.

[Yakifufu]

I'm finding it difficult to read the combos. I'm more of a visual person and it also doesn't help that people have different ways of writing them both here and elsewhere. I'm still new to combo science.

[Digital Watches]

I wrote down a notation for people to use, but they just won't stick to it!

[Shadow Ninja 64]

I wrote down a notation for people to use, but they just won't stick to it!

I apologize for transcribing an entire video's worth of combos into the notation I've been using for years before even looking at your OP. I'm also sorry that folks are confused about XX notation for special/super cancels, although in my defense people have been using that notation across all kinds of games for as long as people have been discussing fighting games on the internet.

Edit: Removed a line that in retrospect sounded different than what I intended.

[Digital Watches]

It's chill, I was definitely kidding about that since I really only wrote that down to clarify the notation I personally use.

But the whole XX thing is pretty confusing

[Kumlekar]

What should I be doing off of non-CH 6H and 2H?  Counterhits with them usually lead to really easy combos like CH 6H, dash 5k-c.S-2S, j.H-j.D-Bomber, and I'm sure some better players can get more creative with multiple bombers off of them, but what are my options off of a normal hit?  I guess I should just link to a 5K gatling combo with rensen as the ender?  

 

As for 2H, I've just been following with a dust attack, though that doesn't combo.  Most of the players I've been against have been walking into it and giving up free damage, but I've just been playing online, not at the local arcade.  The level of play is much much lower than what I'm used to.  

 

Finally, do we have the frame data anywhere?  Would be useful to answering some of my questions.

 

EDIT: Found some framedata on the dustloop wiki, but I'm not seeing anything about hitstun or gatlings.

[Digital Watches]

Just use 2H to link a frame trap of some kind. It's effectively a weird neutral situation for people who can actually mash well, unless you have 50%, in which case go for the challenge mode combo (2H-6H (Early RC) jD). If you're less confident in your timing, jK-jD will work off the RC as well I think (As long as they're not super short), but the scaling isn't as good for your followup.

6H you should learn to eyeball how meaty it is. In a lot of situations, you can link 5K off it, but if it's a normal hit during the first few active frames, you're just at frame advantage.

[Shadow Ninja 64]

On the topic of 2H RC, you have a couple options:

... 2H(2) RC IAD j.H-D land, (c.S or 5K)-5P-6K(2)-2S(2) sjc j.-H-D-Bomber [does not work on Faust for sure]

... 2H(2) RC (dash) 5D~8 into regular dust combo

The first option only works right from a longer/max range 2H(2), whereas the second option is doable from any range as long as your RC and dash timing are on point. In the corner you have the option of going into a 5D~6 combo instead, but if you have too much stuff early on (like 5K-3P-2H(2) opener) then you might not be able to do the full wall dust combo.

[GuerrillaTactic]

So I have been trying the 2S anti-air combo and I have hit it a few times but I'm having real problems with the 5S after the running bomber.

Because I can't see Axl when he lands or at the beginning of the bomber I can't tell if I'm doing it right or not. Any suggestions to get this more consistent?

[Digital Watches]

So just for our reference, what combo are you talking about? Most of the time my combo from 2S is TK bomber, then whether followups happen depends on the height, distance from the opponent, and distance from the corner. But I could see doing TKB RC for more followup... Please write out the combo you're having trouble with.

[GuerrillaTactic]

The one that was posted earlier,

2S, sjc j.HS, j.D, bomber RC, land - dash~bomber (needs to hit corner here) 5S, bomber, 5K, 2S (2 hits), bomber.

Does 235 damage on Sol and nets you knock down in the corner when done correctly.

I can get up to the 5S after the second bomber but I can rarely hit it, the opponent seems to be able to tech just before the 5S would connect or I can't hit 5S early enough and the second bomber knocks down.

I just need some help getting the combo right.

Also, is there any way to maximise damage off a raw 6K? You can cancel into 2S but a lot of the time, the range you hit 6K at is just too far, any one have any ideas?

[Digital Watches]

Ah, yeah, that timing is gonna be a little tight, nothing you can really do but practice it. Remember that most situations you can get a relaunch off of aren't going to be knockdowns themselves (Bomber KD is really tight like that usually), so you need to know when to abort the combo and go for oki and when you need that relaunch.

As for 6K... there's always 6K (RC) Run up 2S, but you can also often TKB straight off the 6K, which usually isn't gonna have a followup but might at least net you the KD. If you're out of range to chain to 2S and out of range to TKB, I think you're unlikely to really want it bad enough to RC for the combo at that scaling. Just take the tech trap situation, it's okay.

[Kumlekar]

Also, is there any way to maximise damage off a raw 6K? You can cancel into 2S but a lot of the time, the range you hit 6K at is just too far, any one have any ideas?

If its outside of 2S range, I'm pretty sure you aren't going to have a useful followup.  Depending on position there may be a j.S or j.6P option, but my guess is that those are too slow.  

 

Edit, j.6 can hit, but theres no followup,  As watches said, RC, dash 2S works, but that only extends the range a little bit.  

[GuerrillaTactic]

I was testing a few things last night and found the j.6P thing as well but at max range that's all you're getting. It would be really nice in this situation if j.6p had a vacuum second hit or if Axl had his old semi-circular special move back (can't remember the name, it was put at the end of his HS DP string as well) or even if they just gave him something in line with Sin because that character just seems to be able to convert big damage from his mid-screen pokes whenever he wants.