Errol

Tsubaki was quite a bit worse in CS1.

I'll just have to try and see. 6bb midscreen, mugen will give you way more than anything else, but then range can be an issue. But if mugen isn't useful there, when is it useful. pretty damn rarely I guess. "mugens almost.. too good"... Bastard!

The last time I remember seeing it, was during god's garden. Konan used it, got bursted, and then the right side of the screen was spammed with 'hint wa koromo'. at least it doesn't/didn't take a lot of practice to get it down.

Yeah, I did. Not sure how practical it is though, need to try it in some games. Stuffs so situational, I'm disappointed. 6bb>mugen pulls about the most out of it that I can see... and it feels like it's only good if you have about 1 charge, or 5 charges (and they don't have a burst). 2-3-4- charges, and you're just wasting.

y'know what. No mugen combos in the whole batch. Does seem like most of the time mugen doesn't make sense even now.

What daedron said, but specifically for vs barrier. Barrier pushes back, but it has a penalty on blockstun that makes 6b +2. Makes it a bit easier but you'll still probably get hit if you try to reset pressure. That is, if they are really mashing jab. but, 6b still provides a frame advantage. If the spacing is right, you can just repeat it. 5b>6b>5b>6b. THey can jump out, if you're predictable.. but this also provides a way of baiting mashing that doesn't instantly end your pressure if you 5b->6b->22c and they just block, pressure is over. 5b->6b->5b will beat almost everything at the right spacing, but if they block it leads back into 6b again.. and the longer you make them block when they're using barrier, the better. Barrier is limited.. a basic block string pattern of 5a->5c->6b works well because you can opt to reset your pressure at basically every link of the string, and if they guess wrong where you're going to reset, they get hit.

what combos, for example?

Yeah, it's annoying, but short block strings, 6b, 6c, and charge cancels are your friend.

Hmm, well I think it's the frame data page that is wrong anyway.

well, even if you rapided, you would have had to dash forward to 6a.. that eats up a lot of what you gained. On that note, 6a is annoying me with the new barrier. You have to be right on top of them in order to followup . Hey Kiba, the frame data for 22d in the wiki doesn't match on the character page and in the frame data page. specifically, on the char page it says the p2 is 89, and on the frame data page it says it is 80.

dunno, after 6b is a place people are going to mash anyway, so not sure why you'd rapid there into a slow thing like 6a. I need to make use of rapids more for continuing pressure, actually. 6CC>Rapid>2b/6b/6a sounds interesting. I can see if you get a hit on 6CC.. 6CC>rapid>6A>5C>2C? stuff? mugen maybe? And you can 6cc again in the combo because the repeat proration is on 6C, which was blocked. So, you certainly can get a lot of damage off a 6cc rapid, but to hit with 6a you need to rapid after the first hit. reaches over 3k with a simple IAD combo. 6C>214C>RC>6A is interesting, it can't be gapless, 6A is too slow. But I think there would only be like 4 frames between 214C and 6A hitting, shouldn't be enough for a jab or a throw. actually, 6bb is a really nice starter for mugen. reaches 4k, you can do an IAD combo afterwards. if you rapid at 6C>214C> then you've basically got a mixup between 6b and 6a. Either will reach 4k if they hit, if you do a mugen combo.. but basically requires that you have 100 heat. Hmm. I always like breaking an additional primer, too... Remember how 214C was +3 or something on block in CS1? sigh, the glory days...

just mean I haven't seen them in matches. only seem to be about 3.6k though. guess that's a bit over 1kish bonus.. extra what.. 800 over just using 1 charge instead of mugening it? have to check

I wonder when we'll get new moves for each character, or if we will at all. The characters do have plenty of stuff already.. Mugen is good but I feel like mugen is only good because we don't have a good damage DD. if 236236C did real guaranteed damage, like valk's or any number of others, we'd still be better off doing that instead of mugen.. probably more damage, cost less heat, use less charge. Exception being 5 charge mugen combos.

Why haven't I seen 2CC hits confirmed into mugen combos. Seems like it'd be a good 4, 4.5k. Have to test in training mode.

I wonder how 6b is. I tend to get a lot of raw 6b or 6bb hits, but that's a pretty simple 2500ish in the corner anyway. 6BB>22C>6CC>ender. should be able to get a full IAD after 6bb>214214D though.

well, 3817 with 236236C at the end, net heat loss of 9. would be more if the super is attached to a 6c. but yeah, it'd be for the purpose of killing someone. Just seems like no point in using mugen here, unless you have like.. 4-5 charges and want to burn 100 meter to do around 6k. annoying thing about mugen is that it really seems to get very little bonus from using more than 1 charge, unless you go all the way and use a 236236D at the end. only really good bonus, unless it'll kill, if you have 5 charges... on another note, 236236D does more guaranteed damage than 236236C now so long as you have 1 charge. Still not good, but..

I suppose 236236C at the end might actually tack on more damage... than using 3cc RC earlier.

just putting together typical combo parts, seems like the best 50 meter 1 charge combo I can come up with off a FC 6A isn't a mugen combo. 6A>5CC>6CC>214D>3CC>RC>2CC>IAD>Ender 3700ish, a bit more than a 1 charge mugen combo, but doesn't burn all of your charge. less burstable (burst after 6cc, 214D should eat them, burst after 214D, no heat spent.. burst after 3cc RC - combo is almost over, but there's a good bit of time to block after 3cc RC too, so might bait there as well...) What are you guys using.

gold burst> 5 charge mugen combo is 5700 damage. Hmm... man, it's annoying looking at the damage changes for tsubaki compared with damage changes for Ragna. Moves were mostly about the same damage, sometimes a bit more even on our end.. but then damage is nerfed on this end, damage is buffed on that end. So we've got a 5b that used to do 540, but now does 520.. and Ragna's 5b used to do 520, but now does 660. etc. Dunno how they decided to do stuff like that.

Kiba, you should make an effort to use all of these setups on Hexanoid at your next tournament! So we can have good links to it in action!

Sorry.

*facepalm*

That particular thing won't happen at a certain point. But there's harder stuff that drops for the best players, and it drops in a way that can be recognized and compensated for. e.g. If you hit a 2CC too low to followup with an IAD combo, you can 236D - or you can just do a typical 236x-214x-22x combo ender. If it hits too high, you might be able to do a 866 iad combo instead of a 96 iad combo. or just a jump combo if it's too high for that as well. Similar thing with CS2 whiff combos, you could hit with the first 2c, but wouldn't hit with the second 2cc if it hit too high.. but I never was good enough to recognize it dropping and be able to adjust into a jump combo. Konan, on the other hand, seemed to be that good.. I hate when this happens...

This isn't really true. If hazama throws an aa chain as soon as you jump, and he chains you on the ground if you don't jump - how do you get in? You don't (but no one plays this well). Basically the same as with Lambda. You get in by going high when he decided to go low, or vice versa. Possibly by reacting to something they do...

yeah, and believe it or not, better players do this, because it's better than the combo dropping.. which like it or not, happens to the best players.