Errol

Pretty sure Rachel's 4B is faster... GGs to those I played.

Yeah, that does. Thanks. Feels like there are so many combo variations to remember.. I *think* that off some starters you can't get the full 6cc but you can get a full IAD. and off 6cc, you can throw in a 214D and still get a full IAD combo. I need to check some more. Similarly, so many combos, have to remember which specific ones allow for a 236C > 5C extension at the end. Although I find 22C > 5C > 2C > 236C > 214B > 22B extensions easier...

Maybe I'm expecting too much out of additional charge in mugen. I'll get like 6200 on a 1 charge mugen combo, and then 6500 on a 2-3 charge mugen.

Jerk~ That's true but I probably won't be able to time it 'like a boss' consistently. Tell me what you would do with extra half charges and junk to improve a mugen combo though. From my look at mugen combos, tacking on a 214D or something prorates to the point where you can't do an IAD anymore and doesn't really gain you much (anything?). I'm sincerely asking for help.

TBH, I don't want mugen to be unburstable, but I think it'd be reasonable to be able to stop mugen by charging in the middle of it. If they burst your 5 charge mugen combo, then you can tap 5d and have 3 probably 4 charges instead of soon to be 0. That or cancel mugen if you get hit? not burst safe, but you don't lose as much. note that the point of 'mugen deactivates if you get hit' would be that a green burst is a hit. Don't know if it's a good idea. Either would have problems if you intended to use mugen in neutral.. but mugen seems to only get used in combos anyway. Beats me. some comparison points 5c>6cc>Mugen>D DP crap> IAD crap > ground ender > 5290 *max damage, burst = minimal damage, good chunk of charge drains off if you mugened with more than 1 charge* 5c>6cc>214d>3cc>RC> IAD crap > ground ender > 4708 *if they burst after 3cc RC, you've already done a substantial amount of damage.. if they burst before it, you only lost one charge, no heat* 5c>6cc>214d> IAD crap > ground ender > 6c > distortion > 4605 *don't need to get any heat until the very end, kills oki, but probably done as a kill combo* 6bb> mugen> reaches 4k. not going to get close to that with 1 charge and 50 heat without using mugen. the alternatives for 5c punish combos are fairly close.

I get so tired of typing combo notation, sorry. I did mean to use 6a>5cc>214214D>etc.. I was just saying instead of (usual 6a, non ch combo, which does involve 6bb) You can do combos off 5a5cc, but it seems to me that those combos are significantly less optimal than mugen. Your other options - Dp whiff into j236D stuff, aren't that great. I mean, there's a bigger gain from mugen'ing there, when you can't do a 6c - you can't do a 214D (well I guess you could 5a5c2c214d, but that's tight on range), you can't stick in a 3cc rapid, you can't do an IAD combo... etc.. If you can stick that stuff in early on you don't get as much from using the mugen. Which is why 6bb>mugen looked really attractive to me. combo options off 6bb hits are jack, but you're up to 4k with mugen.

well, 6a FC is definitely bad, I was just thinking about on NORMAL 6A hits. on FC, you can do 6CC>214D and that beats out mugen. 6A>5CC>6BB>xCCC is the typical and that's not veyr high damage. 1 charge mugen .. something like 6a>5cc>214214D>623D etc> 6CC>xBBB? just figuring, the best places for mugen are the places where you can't really combo well normally..

5C CH > 6CC into mugen is good damage (and this is what I've used mugen for so far, besides random 5a5cc hits), but I think you can get really damn close to it with other combos.. I don't have numbers right now though.

Damage depends when you start it. There are some starters where a mugen combo is a clear gain. 2 charge mugen combo usually means you're burning an extra charge, and 50 heat, for that damage. Most of our combos have some crazy carry, so that also depends on where it is being used. There's jCC in the air, if you have 2 charges, but then again I'd also be thinking about just doing jC and probably getting a CH combo for a good what, 2700ish at no charge cost and no heat cost. I'm trying to think about where it's good to work it in - help me out here. 5a5cc>mugen is effective, and it's easy to confirm INTO mugen, but not so good currently at confirming a block into a charge cancel to continue pressure. maybe 6a>5cc>mugen, when the 6a isn't a counter hit?

Basically, I guess looking to not be hosed if they burst out of it. Cause I can't remember it being used effectively in any recent videos. It's only good in very specific scenarios (generally, 1 charge, or 5 charges, or maybe 2 charges for certain spots , ie throw), and kinda depends on them having no bursts. You have to use it very early on in any combo for it to be worth it.. What are the many common scenarios? Tell me when you use it. 3CC RC is generally better if you can stick it in, it seems. I also kind of feel like the only reason we use these options is because 236236C is so terrible now. If they buff 236236C, which seems logical, then when would mugen get used? off a 6a starter, you already get more damage by using a 236236C than by using a mugen.

What would it take for mugen to actually be useful.. besides scrapping it and replacing it with a 50 heat -> 3 charge super? Maybe if you could end mugen by charging in the middle (in case of burst)? Or just end mugen if you get hit. Dunno, hope they do something next time around.

Tsubaki was quite a bit worse in CS1.

I'll just have to try and see. 6bb midscreen, mugen will give you way more than anything else, but then range can be an issue. But if mugen isn't useful there, when is it useful. pretty damn rarely I guess. "mugens almost.. too good"... Bastard!

The last time I remember seeing it, was during god's garden. Konan used it, got bursted, and then the right side of the screen was spammed with 'hint wa koromo'. at least it doesn't/didn't take a lot of practice to get it down.

Yeah, I did. Not sure how practical it is though, need to try it in some games. Stuffs so situational, I'm disappointed. 6bb>mugen pulls about the most out of it that I can see... and it feels like it's only good if you have about 1 charge, or 5 charges (and they don't have a burst). 2-3-4- charges, and you're just wasting.

y'know what. No mugen combos in the whole batch. Does seem like most of the time mugen doesn't make sense even now.

What daedron said, but specifically for vs barrier. Barrier pushes back, but it has a penalty on blockstun that makes 6b +2. Makes it a bit easier but you'll still probably get hit if you try to reset pressure. That is, if they are really mashing jab. but, 6b still provides a frame advantage. If the spacing is right, you can just repeat it. 5b>6b>5b>6b. THey can jump out, if you're predictable.. but this also provides a way of baiting mashing that doesn't instantly end your pressure if you 5b->6b->22c and they just block, pressure is over. 5b->6b->5b will beat almost everything at the right spacing, but if they block it leads back into 6b again.. and the longer you make them block when they're using barrier, the better. Barrier is limited.. a basic block string pattern of 5a->5c->6b works well because you can opt to reset your pressure at basically every link of the string, and if they guess wrong where you're going to reset, they get hit.

what combos, for example?

Yeah, it's annoying, but short block strings, 6b, 6c, and charge cancels are your friend.

Hmm, well I think it's the frame data page that is wrong anyway.

well, even if you rapided, you would have had to dash forward to 6a.. that eats up a lot of what you gained. On that note, 6a is annoying me with the new barrier. You have to be right on top of them in order to followup . Hey Kiba, the frame data for 22d in the wiki doesn't match on the character page and in the frame data page. specifically, on the char page it says the p2 is 89, and on the frame data page it says it is 80.

dunno, after 6b is a place people are going to mash anyway, so not sure why you'd rapid there into a slow thing like 6a. I need to make use of rapids more for continuing pressure, actually. 6CC>Rapid>2b/6b/6a sounds interesting. I can see if you get a hit on 6CC.. 6CC>rapid>6A>5C>2C? stuff? mugen maybe? And you can 6cc again in the combo because the repeat proration is on 6C, which was blocked. So, you certainly can get a lot of damage off a 6cc rapid, but to hit with 6a you need to rapid after the first hit. reaches over 3k with a simple IAD combo. 6C>214C>RC>6A is interesting, it can't be gapless, 6A is too slow. But I think there would only be like 4 frames between 214C and 6A hitting, shouldn't be enough for a jab or a throw. actually, 6bb is a really nice starter for mugen. reaches 4k, you can do an IAD combo afterwards. if you rapid at 6C>214C> then you've basically got a mixup between 6b and 6a. Either will reach 4k if they hit, if you do a mugen combo.. but basically requires that you have 100 heat. Hmm. I always like breaking an additional primer, too... Remember how 214C was +3 or something on block in CS1? sigh, the glory days...

just mean I haven't seen them in matches. only seem to be about 3.6k though. guess that's a bit over 1kish bonus.. extra what.. 800 over just using 1 charge instead of mugening it? have to check

I wonder when we'll get new moves for each character, or if we will at all. The characters do have plenty of stuff already.. Mugen is good but I feel like mugen is only good because we don't have a good damage DD. if 236236C did real guaranteed damage, like valk's or any number of others, we'd still be better off doing that instead of mugen.. probably more damage, cost less heat, use less charge. Exception being 5 charge mugen combos.

Why haven't I seen 2CC hits confirmed into mugen combos. Seems like it'd be a good 4, 4.5k. Have to test in training mode.