Airk

Of course you should _TRY_ to block it. I'm not advocating just letting him hit you with it, but I'm saying that if you're GOING to be blocking one way or the other on wakeup, it's better to block low to avoid 2B combos and try to react to the 19 frame overhead, rather than block high to avoid the non-combos that usually come from 6A while trying to react to the 9 frame low. :P So yes. Block low on wakeup. Jin doesn't have good standard mixup, and he'll need to do some sort of shenanigans to land a combo if you follow the three points I laid out.

Kiba mostly covered this stuff already (The big thing I noticed was the lack of 2C anti-air....and yeah, the mashing out of ice.) but a couple of things that haven't been brought up: Even with no DP-whiff stuff, your combo selection has some room for improvement. At 2:37 or so in the Jin video, you punished Ice Car with a combo that would be great midscreen, but with your back to the corner, I'd have suggested 5BB>5CC>236D>5BB>5CC>22C for the position reverse to put HIM in the corner easily. (not sure, but you might even be able to do some 6C > 236C stuff after that if you corner him.). Also, when you do the 5CC>6BB>stuff thing, you can generally use 236C>214C>22C for slightly more damage. But mostly, yeah, really, 2C anti air would make a huge difference in your game.

Things to remember when cornered by Jin: A) His overhead is still bad. Unless he has 50 heat to RC it, or you are mashing, he gets nothing from it. Block low on wakeup. B) Forward roll is probably a bad idea. C) He LOOOOVES to reset you in the air. When you tech, do it with Back+AB, and hold between hits so if you tech, you go into barrier guard. In fact, you may want to tech with Downback+AB so that he can't swipe you with a low when you land.

Huey did a great writeup on Bang in the Ragna forums, and most of the info in it is relevant to us too: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11660-Ragna-vs-Bang-%28Continuum-Shift-II%29&p=1178881&viewfull=1#post1178881

You might consider Litchi - with staff, she's definitely longer ranged than the non-zoners, and a little on the sluggish side. Still, that's only half the character. Otherwise though, most of the cast is, as you have observed, not really what you're looking for. It's a curious niche to be so undeveloped, though thinking about it, I bet Relius in CSE will fit in there.

Er, I don't think he was calling YOUR combo impractical, I think he was just having some fun at his own expense. Also, thanks for that one. It looks like I might even be able to do it, since I'm proficient in the j.236A whiff stuff. Should be handy. I need to get used to throwing 6C on Noel's wakeup. >.<

Tao's 5B is also crazy fast for a 5B - it's actually faster than her 5A. It just has terrible range.

Frame data says, yes, you can do that in CS2 (j.C is 16 frames of Hitstun, j.CC is only 10 frames of startup, so you can delay several frames before hitting j.CC and it should still connect even without CH. CH just makes the delay window bigger.) Edit: Oops. We can only cancel into j.CC from frame 18 onwards, so you can only really "delay" j.CC if you either hit late in the active frames, or get a CH or hit a croucher. Still, it sure does combo on non CH/Crouch.

I'm not talking about the forums attitude, I'm just talking about the "here's a list of nerfs and buffs" posts.

See, I have trouble reconciling this statement. According to me and every Tier List I've ever seen, CS2 Tsubaki was pretty much appearing in the dictionary the picture next to 'Fine'. So as soon as we stop reaching CS2 status, IMHO, we have left "fine" and are now "not fine". I realize other characters have been nerfed, but I got to their forums and I read the lists and they are, by and large, NOTHING like what we're seeing. (Though apparently Platinum sucks now? or something? ) I thought we were able to do 3C CH > 5C?

If Tsubaki is doing 22D after the right kind of knockdown, none of those attacks will work, nor will jumping out. Backdash might, but the safest method is to delay your tech so that 22D goes through you as you are getting up. If you tech ASAP on instinct, you're in trouble.

I thought we already knew about the 6A fatal; I saw it in one of the Hakumen matches early on, and it was a definitive change from the loktests... Doesn't seem real useful, but I guess we'll take what's given to us and like it. :P

Definitely back off while magnetized - but don't COWER. You don't want him to be able to do whatever he wants. If he does dumb stuff like trying to cover distance with 2D (Note that it effectively has longer range when you're magnetized, so watch it) you should still punish him, and not try to run away. Otherwise, yeah, unless you get a smashing opening of some sort, try to space things out while magnetized.

I think the inferno divider whiff was just an awesome coincidence, because if you look at the hitbox for inferno divider you'll see that there's some transitionary time between it's first "on the ground" hit and the second, leaping hit. According to the frame data, that's 4 frames there between the attacks, so if Tsubaki is coming down fast, and Ragna is going up fast, it's possible that she just never quite overlapped hitting boxes on ID.

Yeah; This means you just need to try to punish with a low. Does anyone know if parry is low hitting attacks, lower body attacks, or non-head/body attacks? I'd have to test this, but I feel like these two attacks are VERY similar in range. And they're identical in startup. And whatever you do, don't get hit by it. It leads into a hilariously painful combo even midscreen. Oh? She can't combo off the low? Excellent. I HATE that she basically gets free mixup off this move. The Makoto matchup, for me, is a lot like the Ragna matchup - it's a question of who has better spacing and air footsies. Oh, except Makoto can do 2k in the corner off her freaking counter assault. WTF?

Remember. This decision is carved in impermeable stone that lasts for generations and cannot be changed...unless you decide to change it. Seriously. Make a decision. Run with it for a while. If someone really bothers you about the character, or you're just not getting any results, or you just CAN'T do that one critical combo link, well, no biggie, try someone else. We presume you had fun learning the first character, after all.

From the Tsubaki side of this arrangement, I have divided Ragna players into two categories: Ragna players who try to fight me on the ground, who I can generally beat, or at least, put up a good fight against. and Ragna players with good mastery of doublejumps, airdashes, and j.B crossups, who routinely crush me utterly. Tsubaki is generally at her weakest against airborne opponents - as long as you can bait or avoid her 2C/214X, your air options are much stronger than hers.

It's worth pointing out that this is safe - 2BB > 5BB is airtight and cannot be reversed. Tager can IB>720 2B>2BB (though you can screw this up by delaying 2BB) or 5BB>5C though, so be watchful once he gets to 50 heat. When fighting Tager, more than almost anyone else in the cast except maybe Hazama, it's crucial to keep an eye on your opponent's heat.

Depends on whether they were focusing on doing an IB > 360A or not, I think. But yeah, it's certainly the less safe of the options there. The gist, though, is that Tager being able to IB>360A the 2BB > 5C gatling isn't that big a deal if you mix it up by skipping 2BB irregularly.

Could you point out where you see someone getting decent charge (like, more than 1/4th of a stock) from a charge cancel? I just reviewed two Kuresu videos and I'm not seeing it. And yeah. Not to be pessimistic or anything, but it doesn't look like they're giving us decent charging options. The only times I see anyone getting more than a small amount are on a 2D after a knockdown.

You can play aggressively, you just have to do it smart. There are lots of times when there's really nothing Tager can do - if he doesn't have 50 heat, frankly, rush the crap out of him, because he doesn't really have options. If the player is really on the ball, he can IB 2BB and go for 360A, but that's easily avoided by mixing in 5C/6A instead of 2BB. He can also IB>360A after 5C© if you go for 6B or 22C, but 22B is a frame trap for that that'll hit him every time. It's only once Tager has enough heat for a 720 that there's really any reason not to rush the hell out of him. Once he has 50 heat, you need to start playing shenanigans and trying to either stay out of range or bait the 720 (Be careful of using too many jumpins as well, because he can use MagnaTech Wheel against those). But as soon as he's below 50 heat again, go right at him. I mean, obviously you shouldn't do stupid things that leave you way negative, and there are several things you shouldn't do while magnetized (Unblockable resets, 22A are the ones that leap to mind) but overal, being on the offense against Tager is much better than being on the defense and potentially getting magnetized/mixed up.

Er...not really following what you're looking for here?

Something that no one else has mentioned - I'm not sure if you can actually do that combo as 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > stuff. You might have to do it as 5BB > 5CC > stuff. I noticed you included 2BB, and I don't know if that combo works.

This is backwards. IBing makes things MORE negative, not less. Assuming Litchi's 5A hasn't gotten any FASTER (seems unlikely) then all this tells us is that 214D is now -4 or worse (-7 or worse on IB) because Litchi's 5A is 6 frames, so you need to be not blocking on that 6th frame. (I'm PRETTY sure that if you are -6 and someone attacks with a 6 frame move, you can start blocking right as their attack hits and not get hit. Obviously for throws and stuff it's different though.) I'm a little confused still about the discussion surrounding Charge Cancelling as a source of charge. In the Tsubaki vs Hakumen vid above, Tsubaki does a charge cancel and gets the usual garbage amount of charge for it - not even a quarter of a gauge. Charge canceling may have been improved, but if it has, it looks like it's from a frame advantage perspective, not a charge-gained perspective. And they can't really improve it MUCH on the frame advantage side, or we'll have free license to turn 5C/5CC into +2 whenever we want, which would be sortof crazy.

3C is "safer" in that if you space it PERFECTLY, you're 'only' at -5. I actually glanced at this back when I was doing the initial CS2 frame data comparison, and basically wrote it off as still not really feasable. Though I guess at decent range it's safe if people wait to see if you do the followup.