Airk

I'm pretty sure that anytime the frame data says "From X to Y, can cancel into Z" those are "absolute" frames - i.e. you just start counting from the beginning. That seems VERY strange in the context of 2D however, because 10-15F is before the move even hits, so that can't be right. I suspect there's an error in either the translation or the mook there, since if you check the BBCS _1_ frame data, that move says it can be cancelled into followups from 40-45, not 10-15, which makes a TON more sense. I'm guessing that that's correct, since not much else seems to have changed on that move. Given that assumption, I'd say that the move breaks out like this: 19 Frames of Startup 12 Active frames (Total 31 frames) 45 frames of recovery, but cancellable 9 frames in through 14 frames in. However, since it's a level 4 attack, you're going to be in blockstun until frame 46, if I'm doing my math right. So unless you IB, she will have either cancelled or not before you can act. THAT said, there's nothing she can do after it that has less than 13 frames of startup (5A followup) so in theory, even if she cancels as early as possible, any normal that starts up in less than 7 frames (if she cancels on frame 40, and you start acting on frame 46, she's basically at +6) should hit her if she's in range. So yeah, it should be possible to jab her out of anything after this, assuming she doesn't do something that makes your attack miss (Like... well, 4D, I guess.)

Listening is legit! I've actually heard some tournament players like to unmap the 7th and 8th buttons on the stick and then use them as 'fake' buttons for people who they think are listening to their inputs.

You can say this, but there's not actually any way to prove/disprove it. However, unless you are noticing the startup, odds are you are anticipating, because 13 frames is below the threshold of what people can be expected to react to reliably. The 20 frame startup+break window is reactable to, but lets face it - Makoto's overhead is 20 frames and it hits people all the damn time, so if you've got any level of reliability teching throws, you're probably subconsciously anticipating. Unless you can block Makoto's overhead all the time too, in which case, maybe you're just crazy fast. :P I think this has all been gone over plenty of times though, so let's not further clutter the thread. Suffice it to say that MOST people don't tech green throws on reaction because they can't. Maybe you're special.

A few comments: 236C/D are, as Kiba says, excellent against bombs. A lot of Platinum players won't even know how to deal with this. Missiles don't have foot attribute, so if Platinum throws a missile and tries to run in after it, 214X will carry you through the missile easily. Just don't get too predictable since she can 2A/2B/3C you out of it if she's expecting this. No one in their right mind will upgrade the bat. :P I don't see anything to indicate that you have any sort of advantage against her on the ground after j.2C - it doesn't have any landing recovery, it's just hard to combo off because of the lack of hitstop. ORDINARY j.C however seems to have landing recovery, so yes, throwing her after that should work. Be a little cautious when you start the round against scrubby Platinum players; It continues to amaze me how many of them will start the round with Mami Circular ("Heart Car") which will hit you out of 22C and also backdash, I think, but if you just block, it's free damage for you. Another popular but not very smart Platinum opener seems to be jump back/backdash D. Backdash D is easily CH-punished by 236C jump back version is a little safer, if done high enough, but still affords you a chance to close in. Platinum can cancel 6C into a jumping attack, so it's tough to punish. Wait until JUST before she lands and stick out a jab to catch her landing recovery if she doesn't do this.

From my time playing against a mediocre Arakune the other evening, 236X beats low altitude bird-glide clean. Edit: where by "low altitude" I mean "low enough to hit you on the ground".

It's a whole two frames slower, which doesn't really seem very siginficant, and it has a very different hitbox. Resenga is immune to foot attribute moves, so if you want to hit it out, you need to use a standing normal (generally) and most of those will go right over Zaneiga's hitbox. =(

I'm missing something. Why would he NOT do Zaneiga? It doesn't seem to leave him at any meaningful sort of disadvantage, and the rewards for hitting someone with it are quite high, especially if he catches someone who was mashing to try to CH his Ressenga?

This was only true in CS1; 236A leaves him at -2 now, which means that if he does 236A and then mashes 5A while you mash 5A, you stab him in the face before he punches you. :P There's no frame trap about it anymore. If he's foolish enough to blindly 236A you, you have, at the least, time to backdash out if you want space or whatever. This move is not the threat is was in CS1.

Currently, his hypothesis (That Satoshi was un-used to American-style Bang) holds up better in the face of evidence than yours (That Satoshi just wasn't used to how American players "played" in some extremely nonspecific sense.). So cut him some slack, eh? Besides, he didn't say that his traps/gimmicks whatever were GOOD, necessarily - indeed, they might have worked for a little bit precisely because they WEREN'T. That would explain why there was early success but ultimately, failure. Rather than some style of "American play" that was just innately confusing.

A few comments: Tsubaki's 5B is much faster than yours. If you want to play poking, you'll need to space very carefully. While you can punish whiffed 6Cs, no Tsubaki who isn't a total idiot is going to be throwing that move out randomly. It's mostly a combo tool, though sometimes some players will sneak it into a blockstring and then jump cancel it. Trying to punish that with a Mami Circular will probably get you airblocked and hurt. 6A is technically negative on block, but gatlings into 5C for continued pressure. Attempting to punish this move after blocking it are not going to end well for you. Either ride out the whole blockstring, or try to jab her out of the startup, because once it makes contact, even if you block, you're in for pressure. (6A > 5C© > optional 6B > optional 22C or dash up 2A.) Be careful of just rushing in behind your missiles (or even bombs) or getting predictable with cat hammer. Smart Tsubaki players can use her 214X series to go through these moves and score a counterhit. Be careful being predictable with bombs. Tsubaki can 236C/D you on reaction if you throw them out on the ground. (Since the bombs go up in an arc, she'll zip right under them and hit you before they land.) Most Tsubaki players will try to approach on the ground - she's not particularly strong in the air, so you can avoid a lot of stuff by staying airborne, but be wary of air throws and letting her predict where you're going to land. I wouldn't really suggest trying to 'zone' her - she's very mobile - so your best bet is probably going to be hovering around the edge of 5B/3C range and trying to score a knockdown so you can start pressure. Tsubaki doesn't have a lot of options at that range, but watch out for random 22X moves, as they have slightly more reach than her 5B. The A version comes out very fast (faster than your 5B, actually) though its -9 on block, if it's used near max range is very hard to punish.

Her overhead is negative on block, but she can always do the followup which can hit you out of attempted punishes. The followup is also negative, but not really negative enough to punish, except MAYBE on IB. Barrier is key - eventually she'll need to either transition to longer ranged attacks (and keep getting pushed back) or dash in to resume pressure, and the dash in can give you an opening.

A couple of points: "- Tsubaki can't follow up her 5b at max range" is not strictly true. 5B CH can chain into 6C for big damage, normal 5B can be comboed in 22X (or 236D) series even at max range, giving knockdown, or fairly significant damage, with charge. At full screen you may want to be airborne - Tsubaki doesn't really have options for engaging you in the air at that distance and it may give you time to place steins. It can become very difficult for Tsubaki to approach once you have enough steins out. You need to avoid being predictable, however, because if she can tell where you're going to land, and you don't have lasers to cover you, she can zip in with 236C/D for combo and pressure. Even if you block one of these, she'll be at advantage if the move was performed at fullscreen. Note, however, that neither move reaches the ENTIRE length of the screen, so if you're at a range where Hazama's chains and Lambda's swords won't reach, you're probably safe from a 236C/D too, though all it takes is for her to move forward a little to be in range, so don't get too comfy. You are correct that you're probably going to be safest at 'mid range' - because her pressure is weaker there, but be wary of being predictable in general, because she's far from helpless even at that range.

I don't think 3C is THAT big a factor. The timing on it now is at least somewhat precise - they HAVE to do it on reaction. If they anticipate, at least on 236X, there are enough active frames to hit them before the move ends. DPing after 5CC is a problem with anyone who has a frame 1 DP, but can be baited by charge cancelling if they get overly happy with it. The damage from successfully baiting is about the same as the damage from the DP combo, overall, I think. Parry is definitely a concern though, as is Furry Tail and that STUPID airborne hitconfirm. I give this a 4.5

Erm, what are you talking about? No. Just BLOCK the ice car and punish it. You can 5A them all. If for whatever reason he KEEPS DPing you out of that (which really just means you're too slow) then don't 5A, and instead just 5C the recovery of whatever DP he does. There's nothing fancy about this. This is like, Street Fighter 2 block-and-punish level stuff here.

He kinda...doesn't have any. It's why he's such a pain in the ass to get away from. His 6A "Elbow" overhead leaves him at -5, but that's not really punishable except on IB, though you could jump out or something. 3C is -6, but he's never NOT going to cancel that into stance. Stance overhead leaves him at +2 minium, stance low is -1 if he doesn't hold the stance, so that's an "above average" chance to at least try to get momentum back. I don't know if there are any good places to try to break out of his blockstrings, because Hazama kinda doesn't really HAVE much in the way of blockstrings. x.x I hate Hazama. At least when i get blown up by Makoto or something, I feel like they had to work at it. Hazama just feels like "Oh, well, sorry, but everything I do leaves me at advantage."

I think the Lambda/Tsubaki matchup is pretty even. While Tsubaki has some good tools to help her close the distance, she can't just throw them out for free - attempts to approach with 236X get stuffed easily by 5D, but the Lambda player needs to be careful of doing 4D or 214D~C because both of those will leave you open to a 236C if your opponent is paying attention. Midscreen, Tsubaki's 214X attacks will go through 214D and 5C, so use those with caution. Attacks with the 'Foot' attribute will hit her out of it, so 236D, 2B, 6C, 236B are good tools if you're getting hit by this a lot.

A and B DP do indeed no longer hit crouchers, though the B DP still has some invunerability frames that could make 3C miss if you hit it right away. If he's using the B DP (He's probably NOT using A, because if he's trying to hit you out of a punish, he's going to want some invulnerability) then you can just crouch under it and punish it afterwards. If he's using the C DP, which WILL hit crouchers, well, it has ENORMOUS recovery on block, so just block, get a cup of coffee, then punish.

His overhead is 640 damage unless he has heat, or counterhits you. That's pretty unfierce. I pretty much SAID that he has lots of gimmicks. I didn't say he only does damage in the corner, and I don't think you're prepared to argue that Jin's best chances of "a lot of damage" DON'T come in the corner. Edit: Sorry. Crabby day at work. Was excited when I saw your name since I know you play Jin and probably know a ton about him, but there's no info in your post.

Yup, 2D and 6D will both hit you out of 214 series, but both are too slow for him to do on reaction to anything other than 214C, so as long as you're not predictable, you should be fine. Otherwise, 214 is strong against Jin - it dodges EVERYTHING he has including DPs, Supers, and Astral. The only things that can hit you are 2D, 6D, 2A, 2B and 3C. Heck, I may have to start throwing out 214Bs on people who insist on trying to special cancel their 6Cs with stuff. :P Jin is a weird matchup. He does a lot of damage off certain hits (mostly in the corner) but he has no "tradtional" mixup to speak of - until he has 50 heat his overhead basically does nothing, so he's entirely reliant on weird jump/projectile and throw shenanigans or getting counterhits with DPs. Against good Jin players, I swear I take more damage for trying to hit him than I do for getting hit by his 'mixup'.

Just a few random vs. Tao tidbits: #1: If goes for a "naked" Cat Spirit 3 (The grounded slashes that hit down as an overhead, then up as a mid) you can hit her out of the startup - it has 30 frames of startup. You did this once in the second match #2: If you can anticipate a 6B, throw out a 2C. It will beat it clean. #3: After blocking her 6A (the two upwards paw-bats) on the ground, 2C isn't a bad option - all of her gatling options from there come out really slow (6B, 6C), so she's probably going to jump or drive cancel, and 2C might hit her. #4: Treat her kinda like a zoning character - you won't be getting much charge here, because she can close and hit you so fast, but her defensive options are limited and she has Carl-level health, so if you get a chance to apply pressure, stay on her and don't let up. #5: At long range, 236C beats most of her options #6: Against random drive junk, 214X might be valuable, because it covers a lot of space and can't be hit by any of her airborne nonsense during the invulnerability frames. If you get a grounded non-counter-hit, you can D-cancel into 22D for hurtings. #7: In moderation, random j.214Xs can hit her out of a bunch of stuff and cover a different angle than your usual ground-based attacks. You're right that trying to chase her into the air is probably bad though. #8: Counter-assault more. (This is my new advice for everything. Problems with your toaster? Counter assault more.) #9: Don't be quite so afraid to stick an attack out there every once in a while. While Tao has good pressure, there are holes, and if you don't poke her occasionally, she's free to do whatever. (You actually did a bit of this, but in the first round of the 2nd match you seemed kinda paralyzed). Actually though, I thought you did really well. You had several excellent hitconfirms and generally blocked and teched very well. Probably wouldn't hurt to spent a while in training mode getting comfy with the DP-under-pressure though. (Working on that myself.)

Well, in this case, you can just think of 3C having it's unique invulnerability from "slightly after the move starts" until "a bit before it hits" and be good enough, though it might also help to know that the invulnerability period as a whole lasts about 1/3rd of a second. >.<

It doesn't "go under" it, precisely. 3C just has invulnerability frames to attacks that don't have the "Foot" Attribute. Touga Hyoujin (and, come to that, ALL of Jin's special moves and DDs, and, hilariously, his Astral) doesn't have the 'Foot' attribute, so if it makes contact with you between frames 6 and 27 of 3C (or 6 and 39 of 'fake' 3C) it'll go right through you, in the same way that attacks go through you during the startup of Corona upper. It works the same way - the attack doesn't "miss" you, you're just invulnerable to it. 3C's invulnerability is just a little more specific, so it'll get hit by moves that DO have the 'Foot' attribute, which is mostly crouching normals, and specials that hit low/come up out of the ground. The latter is a pretty inconsistent guide though - Jin's 2D has 'foot', but Lambda's Spike Chaser (the huge swords that come up out of the ground) does not. Your best bet for determining if you can skip through something with 3C is to look at the frame data in the 'Attribute' column, and look for the letter 'F'. If it's in there, it'll hit you at any time during 3C, if it's not, 3C's invulnerability frames apply.

Huh. Right. Because the DP is considered a projectile, so Hakumen's counters do weird things as a result. Go figure. A PLUS for being a projectile.

Yeah, trying to use 236X for spacing is like trying to use Ragna's 6C for spacing. Probably not a good idea since it takes so long to come out. If someone is inside 5B range and trying to 236X you, you should win every time. 214X, on the other hand, will stuff you bad under those cirumstances. (Images provided just in case someone, well, doesn't know all Tsubaki's moves by notation.) If a Tsubaki player is OUTSIDE 5B range, then 236X will stuff random Dead Spikes (assuming both players do the moves at roughly the same time) and will probably beat anything you try to throw out on reaction. However, 236C is unsafe at anything less than about half screen distance, and 236B doesn't really give Tsubaki much of a combo unless she D-cancels. (Which she bloody well should if she has the charge). The real danger of 236C is at half to three quarters screen distance, where it will stuff run ins, and/or put her in your face at advantage. It is advisable to jump a lot if you are at this range. (You can try Hell's Fang, but you'll probably just trade.) Actually, jumping a lot is good at any range if you can space your air to grounds or use doublejumps/dash/belial edge to fake out 2C anti-air attempts.

Er, yes, but it's not applicable to most combos, because you're not close enough/don't have time or whatever. Or at least, I assume that's why people don't use it after every combo. As for 623A/Ding it... it should work, actually. Assuming your opponent is fast enough to recover from the stagger on the first frame and mash out the DP, 22C only leaves you at +5, so 5A will land RIGHT as 623A/D is starting up, and get beat by the invulnerability frames. Of course, the simple solution to that is to NOT attack after 22C, let them do the DP, and then start the combo of your choice. Honestly, doing 623A/D after a DP is unwise unless they have the charges for D-cancelling or something.