Airk

I don't know what to tell you; I just TRIED it, and 2A hits 3C out everytime, whether you do the 'default' 3C, or the extended duration spinny 3C. For the heck of it, I backdated myself to system version 1.02, verified that, yup, it was 1.02 because I could charge all the way to 5 stocks just by holding D, and tried 2A vs 3C... and 2A won every time except when I hit it too late and got counterhit. So... I don't know where you're coming from - 2A has always worked on 3C as far as I can tell, and it certainly does now.

We don't all have the execution/time commitment to master that combo. :P Heck, I'm still working on the IAD stuff. That's how dubious my combo skills are. Strangely, I beat a lot of players just by playing solid. :P Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I should be able to put some of this into action.

Anyone have a good, not too difficult combo to do after a 236D starter? (i.e. something that doesn't involve another 236D, lest the repeat proration muck things up.) Or am I at the point where I need to either learn 623C whiff combos, or suck it up with my basic BnBs? (It just feels weird that there's nothing I can do to use more charges for more damage in this situation.)

Wow. Damn. That was like...poetry. The amount of sheer yomi involved in some of those Konan matches, with the burst baiting and calling out Valk's drive cancel in the 2nd round was freakin' incredible. Combos were good stuff too, though it's clear that they're HARD because he still missed a couple. He deserves to be in, with play like that.

Agreed - never use 623X on ANYTHING when the opponent is directly above you. 2A SHOULD hit 3C at any point. The hitbox isn't THAT low, and it's only invulnerable to head/body (THIS is actually why so much stuff 'whiffs' on it - it's not the hitbox, which isn't really much lower than Makoto when she's crouching, but the fact that the move has head/body invulnerability for most of its lengthy startup. 236D, for example, hits low enough to the ground than it can OTG the entire cast, but it'll 'whiff' on Makoto's 3C due to the invulnerability frames.). Unless someone has experience with it not hitting, I think it's safe to assume that it does. (I don't see a lot of Makoto 3C in high level play. This is probably why. Most Makotos will reserve this move to try to hit you out of 236X on reaction.)

I think I saw a 236D kill George in a Rachel match the other day. There's also room for a small amount of mixup with 3C because the followup-cancel window is actually really big - 15 frames or so. So you can screw with people's heads a bit since they have to wait until pretty late in the recovery period to tell whether you're going to do the followup or not. Still not recommended without a rapid cancel though, because if you guess wrong and don't get a CH, you're in a world of hurt.

Yeah. It's definitely one of those "Surprise! This move is so bad that you forgot I had it!" kind of techniques. 50 heat REQUIRED to use.

Her generic air combo is j.C > jc > j.C > j.CC > j.236A (usually) > j.214C (or D if you want more continuing power). There are a few variations - adjusting which version of j.236X you use, and starting with j.B before the j.C, but that's the gist.

Reinforcing what BattousaiJ said about taking to the air in this match - just don't, unless you're on the offense against a grounded, staffless Litchi (though it might be okay to jump-in barrier against Litchi with the staff, but watch for air throws.). In fact, really, there aren't many characters in the game that IS wise for Tsubaki to chase into the air. As for Litchi's overheads, I believe they are: 6A (Either with staff or without, though the frame data says 6A-staff can be blocked low, I think that's wrong); This is pretty quick, but doesn't have much range without the staff, and can actually miss if you're too CLOSE with the staff. I'm not sure how to read her gatlings table either, so not sure what the followup options are 4D (With staff only); This is the infamous 'pole dance overhead'; It's just as fast as 6A, has lower body invulnerability since she's 'airborne', has pretty good range, and sets the staff for use in followups. This one is dangerous, but seems like it leads into more advanced stuff. 623C (empty handed only); "Chun". A sortof flipping kick thing. This is far and away the slowest of her overheads, and should be comparatively easy to block. It's also fairly negative for her if blocked - at least enough for you to start a jab combo. It has a followup, but if I'm reading this right, she loses her option to do the followup the instant you get out of blockstun, so there shouldn't be room for any mixup to punish your attempted punishes. I expect Litchi players won't do the followup on block, because it just makes them more negative, but you never know.

Makoto's 3C will go under 236X if done on reaction, but the move itself is kinda weird - it can be hit out towards the end of its active frames, but you don't really want to play that game. Try to get in the habit of countering Furry Tail with 623B, and you'll have less to worry about from a jump-in perspective, because you won't have to worry about clashing 2C. Try to figure out where your opponent likes to go for the overhead - Makoto's overhead is the fastest in the game unless you count stuff like Rachel's winded j.A, so a lot of players get really predictable with it. 5A>5B>5C>5CC> 6B/2C is the Makoto scrub blockstring of choice, and you can DP it without instant block after the 5CC regardless of which option they pick. You can also jab them out of the 2C, but mashing jab will result in you getting Counterhit from the 6B option, so it's not really recommended. Don't try to do anything after blocking 3C - it's +2 on block, and you'll just get a jab in the face. Try to use 2A or 2B to stuff 3C before it hits instead. and like BattousaiJ said - counterassault your way out of pressure as often as possible. Edit: Another thing I've noticed Japanese players doing against Makoto lately is bursting the combos that would put them in the corner, rather than waiting and then bursting a corner combo. I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not, but it might be worth thinking about.

Lambda is an interesting matchup for the 214 stuff; As you say, 214 series hill go through Spike Chaser, even though it looks like it shouldn't (Inexplicably, the huge spikes rising up from the ground don't have 'foot' property) but it WON'T go through Sickle Storm (The spinning blade on the ground that everyone thinks hits low, but doesn't.) Similarly, you can beat out Act Parser Zwei: Cavalier (The mid hitting rush that wallbounces for a combo) but NOT Act Parser Zwei: Blade (The low hitting one). Cavalier isn't really something they should be throwing out randomly, but it has a big chunk of startup (30 frames) so it should be beatable on reaction (barely) with 214A/B/D or on anticipation with C. Not sure how the timing will work out with opponents trying to do Act Parser Zwei > Throw Honestly, I haven't faced many decent Lambdas since BBCS2, so I don't have much to add, except that with the loss of invulnerability on Gravity Field, they are much more likely to try for a Calamity Sword on wakeup.

There are some good threads with very solid advice over in the Beginner Mode section: Level up my game? The process of learning a character And probably others. For this sort of advice, that's probably where you want to be - there, or a character specific forum, anyway.

S'okay, hearing someone in the background going "HOW IS THAT STILL LEGIT?!?" at like the 5:10 mark made it all worthwhile.

That's a link to the same match you posted earlier. Here's the new one.

Well, that's the thing - 214D isn't invulnerable to Noel's 4D - Noel's 4D has foot, which means it'll hit 214D at any point. (Unless someone is prepared to prove me wrong here - the frame data has been wrong before.)

That was delightful. There were at least two moments during the vid where I had to rewind, going "Wait, what?!" when you did something that hadn't even entered my brain yet as a combo.... Edit: Also, be careful using 214D against a wakeup Noel - 4D has foot property and weird invulnerability, so I have no idea who would win, but CH 4D is not a fun thing to get hit by.

The only things you have for beating crouchers are: 1) 6A. You'll just have to be as sneaky as you can. Looking a bit like 6B helps a little, but good players will know that 6B isn't an option after 2B, so that won't apply. 2) Throws. 3) Making them want to hit buttons. It's EXTREMELY easy to create tiny little gaps in Tsubaki's blockstrings that give your opponent just enough time to do something stupid. 4) 22D if they're not paying attention. 5) Guard crush if they've had to burst. Tsubaki has good, steady guard crushing capability, and most of her moves that do it are fairly safe on block. She doesn't have any 4 primer strings or anything, but you can do weird stuff like 236C>22D>22C>RC>22C to mess with people's heads. Basically, Tsubaki doesn't have any magic tricks for beating people who are willing to just hold downback. You just have to keep the pressure on as much as possible, and try to find something they're NOT watching for. Do the same 5BB>2B string 3 times and then go 5BB > 6A and see what happens. Throw out different versions of 22X with different charge times and try to psyche them into trying to block a 22D (anytime you do a 22X it's sortof a mini mindgame - they could try to jab you out, but they risk getting a counterhit, or they could try to jump out and risk getting hit and put back in pressure, or they can sit there and risk it being a 22D, or losing a primer to 22C). Don't go for the throw for a while, then switch to throwing a lot, etc. But there's no Makoto 20 frame overhead or anything to make it easy for you. In terms of getting in, yes, mostly it's 236X, 214X if you can catch people trying to hit you out with non-lows, dash 5B, or, heck, dash 22X. There are some tricks you can do with D cancelling as well - mostly on 236X, since those can be D-cancelled before they hit if spaced far enough, so things like 236X>214D can screw up people who are fishing around trying to hit you out. 2A is generally the best followup for 236X on block, though you can go into 22D for extra confusion, and, once people stop trying to hit you after one of those moves because you got a CH 2A on them once too often, you can start throwing, going for 6A, or WTFever. Also, in terms of getting in, you don't really want to deliberately start an offense against most characters with no charges, so try to dodge back and charge a little bit before engaging - with even one charge, you're able to stay right on top of your opponent...and hopefully get some scraps of charge in your knockdowns.

Some actual advice: Choose your times to charge a little more judiciously. You charged right up in Ragna's face at one point, and during the Hazama video, there were a couple of times where you got a knockdown and then waited almost until he stood up before you started charging. Don't try to jump in on a Hazama in stance, or rather, if you do, jump in and barrier. His little "flash kick" thing that he uses out of stance as an anti-air will beat your jump in attacks, but is heftily negative on block, so you get a punish if you block it (Suggested: j.214D) Don't do 236C/D at -really- full screen range (like after a green burst), because it results in you skidding to a stop right in front of your opponent, which is bad. Be more careful with your spacing of your normals - during the Ragna match, you whiffed a bunch of jabs, which isn't entirely safe. More AAing with 2C - didn't see any, and Ragna was jumping at you a bunch. You held onto your burst too long in the Ragna match - bursting when you only have 1 hit of health left isn't a good idea, because, well, your opponent only needs to get one random hit in. Try to burst BEFORE you get to death's door. Use your charges in your combos, not just for your approaches/setups - in the third round of the Ragna match, you had two charges when you blocked his Hell's Fang followup in the corner, but all you did was the super basic 0 charge BnB - BattousaiJ's 5BB>5CC>22B>236D>Dash 5B>2CC>236B>214B>22B 1-charge would've been excellent there.

Well, the basics, in no particular order, are Lots of short dash pressure. For best pressure, you need to be in or near throw range. 5B, 2A and 6B all leave you plus on block, as do 22C and 22D. These are your best chances to dash in closer. "High/low Mixup points": You can gatling to a high or a low after: 5A, 2A, 5B, 5BB, or 2B. If you're trying for high low mixup, you don't really want to proceed much further in your blockstrings than that, especially since you'll be wanting to dash in again before their blocking pushes you too far back. (Unless you gatlinged into a 6A - 6A should pretty much ALWAYS be followed by some sort of cancel.) Longer pressure strings are good for both surprising your opponent once they expect you to do short strings, and also to make blocked mixup safe - if you've gone as far in your string as 2BB (going for a low), then you should cancel that move into something, since it's -7 on block. The mixup at this point stops being "high low" and starts being "when is this string going to stop" because from 2BB, you go into 5CC>6B, with option to charge cancel 5C or 5CC (Resetting you to basically neutral - you'll be at roughly -2 here, which still isn't half bad.) and option of going for 22C (or 22D) after any move. 22C chips off a primer and leaves you plus on block, and you can play mini-mindgames by holding it for a moment or two. Plus, once your opponent gets used to blocking 22C, it becomes easier to sucker them into trying to block a fully charged 22D. On top of all this, you can mix in throws - mostly during your dash-jab spam, but really anytime you're in range (Kara throw helps here.) There's also some sort of weird crossup IAD j.214D thing you can do, but I'm going to tag BattousaiJ to explain how that works, because I don't really get it yet. re: 236236B+C OS in the corner... I dunno. I think there are probably better ways to stuff rolls, but if you're worried about a wakeup Jayoku or something, I guess this is a very safe approach. The reward for a naked 236236C isn't anything especially exciting though, and you'll lose your corner pressure because you'll blast them all the way across the screen.

Actually, that's not true. I don't want to nitpick, but there seems to be a lot of confusion regarding what blue-beats mean. It does NOT mean they can magically break out of your combo at any time. It DOES mean that they had a CHANCE to break out of your combo, and missed it. If you look closely at the blue-beat counter, there will be a smaller number (actually, up to three smaller numbers) under the big one. Those were the hits when your opponent COULD have teched out of your combo. So what a blue-beat really means is that your execution wasn't tight (Or you're not using a 'valid' combo.). It's not a problem in and of itself, because your opponent DIDN'T tech out - you should finish your combo, don't drop it early to avoid a punish or anything - but you should go to training mode and practice to make sure you don't give people that opening, because good players will escape and punish you... and you won't see a blue number at all, because the combo will be ended.

They're VERY close, but not identical. 5A is P1 100, P2 82, which 2A is P1 100, P2...84. The difference is slight, but 2A is slightly better. I guess this particular combo is skirting so close to the edge of being techable that that makes a difference. @_@

It's really the "able" more than the "willing"; If you've only GOT one charge and 40 heat, 623D doesn't really get you much more than 623A, so you might want to save it. Obviously, nothing exists in a vacuum. Me, I'd sadly be more worried about Ragna and his bleeping 5B, which comes out in 8 frames, and somehow reaches far enough to hit you at the start of the round. x.x It just seems odd to me to weigh the value of a 623D when you've got charges and the skills to use them, but then weigh the value of 22A as a starter on the assumption that you're no good at timing it. If you're no good at timing it, Tager can 5C you in the face at the start of the round too (Only 1 frame slower than Hazama's 3C), but I don't think that's one of the moves you'd suggest people be wary of. (Or maybe it is?) Regarding other starters, they're mostly dependant on your opponent and what you think they're likely to do. 236B will catch most people who try to backdash at the start of the round, and is pretty safe at that range if they just block it, but it _WILL_ get stuffed by pretty much any random attack people throw out at the start of the round (Ragna 5B, Tager 5C, Hazama 3C, Platinum 5B, Jin 5D, Litchi pretty much anything, etc.) so you should try to have a read on people before using it, because the reward isn't very exciting (Basically 236B,214B,22B and time to charge.). It's kinda similar to 3C in that regard, except the risk on 3C is even worse because if they block, you're in for it, whereas at that distance, 236B is roughly even.

While I didn't go into specifics, I did pretty much already say that if you wanted damage off 623D, you need to burn 1-2 extra charges. I guess I didn't make it clear that this wasn't an option off 623A, but I thought it was implied. But most of those situations are dependant on you being willing/able to spend other resources on top of it. It can be a VERY near thing if people get in the habit of jumping towards you, so some measure of caution is in order. It shouldn't lose to Hazama's 3C though, unless it goes over him or something - it comes out in 10 frames, vs 14 for 3C. It IS, however, harder to precisely time 22A than 3C. I also enjoy using high jump backwards and getting a bit of j.D charge and then either air dashing forward or backwards to suit my needs. The trick with j.D is basically to only use it when you can air dash to continue pressure or back up to get to a safe range. Of course, the safest option is and always will be untechable time 5/2D but I find the more time you are able to charge successfully, the more frustrated and reckless my opponent gets in their attempt to stop my charging which allows me to punish them for it.

The one extra frame MAY be relevant if you are trying to reversal out of a blockstring, but it's unlikely - your opponent would need to be attacking with a fairly fast attack after a move with a relatively high amount of blockstun. Really, the relevant thing about a reversal DP is that it has invulnerability for about the first 5 frames or so - this is the window when your opponents attack is going to make contact with you if you instant block and then reversal. 623D does guarantee a trade (not a clean hit, mind), so if you're really, REALLY desperate, or have charge to burn, feel free to go for it, but the odds are that 623A would have worked just as well (or as poorly.) Edit: The one other thing 623D has going for it is a wider hitbox. There are some circumstances where 623A will miss because your opponent is above you and too close horizontally, so the "light spear" part of the DP doesn't actually make contact. 623D is a LITTLE wider and will fail in this way slightly less often.

It's really a question of what projectile we're talking about; Faster moving projectiles can be dodged easily enough with 214A, while slower ones can be deal with via 214C. Really though, you shouldn't be counting on these moves to get you around projectiles, except perhaps when someone does one at very close range. I don't, but I still pretty much suck; I think if you're within range to hit them with 214D, then it's a valid tactic, but from outside of that range, you're better off doing a jump forwards barrier or just trying to instant block. Patience is key when dealing with heavy projectile users. Should work against the drill-dress, but unless Rachel is doing that from great height, you should just be able to block and punish the drill dress. (The higher up she is when she starts, the better the properties of the move are.) That's not true for SpikeySpikey or Furry Tail (though you might be able to punish the People's Elbow.) Tsubaki forums: Generally more pleasant and welcoming than the rest of Dustloop. :P