Airk

I have no idea what you are trying to say, because the only bits of it that seem relevant are what I already said: Namely, the point is to avoid getting CH by things that would CH you if you got a throw animation.

Am I the only one who thinks that this whole conversation is actually basically wrong, because they've already mentioned that they're playing super laggy netplay and things are different in super laggy netplay? You could say "Well, don't do that." and you'd be right, but the fact is that they are...

No, it's NOT circular logic. That was my point. Yes, matchups INDICATE who is good. They don't CAUSE who is good. You are confusing cause with effect. If you want to know WHY someone is good, you don't look at their matchups, you look at the actual character and the advantages they have. And no, characters can be good independent of players. To pretend otherwise is silly. Good job everyone for completely not answering the guy's question.

Sorry, but this is kindof a backwards answer. No, a characters effectiveness is NOT based on the number of good matchups they have. The number of good matchups they have is based on their effectiveness. A character isn't good because they have good matchups, they have good matchups because they are good. You are confusing "good" with "high tier". They're not the same. I don't think this is why Nu is better than Lambda either; I think Nu just has more and better options. Let me try my hand at answering this question. How good a character is, is made up of a few fundamental components: A) How strong their neutral game is. This is comprised of various parts, such as how much space they can control from a given location on screen, how much they have to 'commit' to control that space, and how easy it is for them to maneuver around an opponent's attempts to control space. Nu is better than Lambda at controlling space, because Lambda's double swords mean that she is more committed when she pushes a button to control space - if she misses, she's far more vulnerable than Nu. Nu's swords are also faster, I believe. B) How strong a character's pressure & mixup are; This, too, is made up of subcomponents - how fast and difficult to see their mixup is, whether they need any special resources to perform it, how vulnerable they are to different defensive options (can you just safely jump out a lot of the time?) and how difficult it is for them to reset their pressure. I'd also put okizeme in this category. Nu is better than Lambda pressure, because she can very easily keep an opponent blocking swords at 2/3rds screen length and punish them for tryign to escape, as well as reset them with sickle storm. C) How much damage the character does. This one is a little more obvious than the others, but there are still various parts here - how much damage they get off an 'average' hit, how much damage they get off a 'punish' hit, how much they can boost their damage with resources (heat and/or character specific gauge) and how hard those resources are for them to get. I don't know how Lambda's damage is, but Nu has above average damage for her her 'average' hits, though her 'punish damage' might be a little lower than some characters. Any one of those facets can make a character good as long as they aren't completely lacking in the others - a hypothetical character who can kill you in one combo, but is so godaway slow that they'll never hit you is bad, but a character who can kill you in one combo and can probably manage to get that one hit in sometime during the match is really good. A character that can mix you up and trap you in infinite blockstrings but can't win at neutral is bad, but one who can do that after eventually winning at neutral is formidable. Tsubaki, historically, has been bad because her neutral tools were weak, her pressure was easily beaten by barrier since most of her options were so short ranged, and her damage was dependant on filling up her special gauge. Her neutral has gotten a little better in CPE and her damage is now pretty okay, but her mixup and pressure are still weak, so she's still not a strong character.

TD et al: It's not that I think there's anything wrong with your answer, it's that I don't think you are understandign what Blacktricity is trying to ask. I think what I was trying to say is that DJB is looking for some "Deeper" solution than you are providing. You are saying "Figure out what the opponent is going to do and then do the thing that beats it" but he's basically asking, as far as I can tell "How do I figure out what my opponent is going to do?"/"How do I do things that will help me figure out what my opponent is going to do?" which your answer doesn't address. Hence the car analogy wherein you are telling him all the things he needs to do, but he's asking how to know when to do them.

Only that doesn't really answer the question at all. o.o It's like someone asked you how to drive a car and you said "Turn when you need to turn, push the pedals to go faster and slower, and if necessary shift gears." It's all TRUE and it's all PART of driving a car, but putting it together won't teach you to drive.

Step 1: think about what you want to do. (strategy not moves) Step 2: decide on a way to do it Step 3: do it. :p I honestly don't think that the question you are asking can be usefully answered.

People gave answers to a bunch of questions, but not what I felt was the most practical one, which is, basically, "How do I footsie with Ragna?" or rather "How do I practice footsies with Ragna?" So I shall attempt to give you "Ragna Footsies 101". The first thing you'll notice about this stuff is that I'm recommending using a CPU dummy a lot. Honestly, a real person would be better, but if you're like most people, you want to develop some VAGUE sense of knowing WTFISGOINGON before you fight real people. The reason you are using a CPU dummy and not a generic training dummy is that footsies is all about space and movement, and if your opponent is standing still, you can't learn it. So: Your 5B is awesome. Learn exactly how far away you can be and still hit with it, and practice using it on a training dummy (probably a CPU dummy) to learn to hit with it at max range and what you can then DO. Practice using 5B and then confirming to either 5C (if hit, and in range) or 2B (if blocked and in range) or, if not in range for either, just do Dead Spike. (Again, you can use a CPU opponent for this, or even just practice dashing up to a training dummy on random block) Also practice using 2A (and 5A, but mostly 2A) to protect your space inside of 5B range - you'll need to at least use a CPU dummy for this. Practice using 6A and 5A to anti-air opponents who jump at you. Once again, your best bet to practice this is to just set the training dummy on a high level of CPU and just focus on anti-airing. Practice your air movement - this one is tough, and basically just involves keeping in mind what you are doing so you don't get predictable. If you double jump everytime you jump in, notice that and stop. If you airdash in everytime you get frustrated on the ground, notice that and stop. Do you like to jump back --> airdash forward? Notice and stop. Or rather, stop doing it all the time. All of those things are good (well, jump back --> forward airdash is a bit sketchy) but if you do them too much, people will punish you, so mix in some safe stuff - jump in barrier, or forward jump -> airdash back. Your objective in footsies is to hit your opponent, or, failing that, to force them to block. If you do that, you have "won" that round of neutral, and you get to do stuff while they either get hit or block. So practice and learn where you can connect 5B from, and what you are in range for afterwards at any given distance (Doing 5B > 2B at max range will whiff 2B and you will die.) Practice practice.

Dash under him. All his air nonsense moves him forward and he'll fly over you and land.

Answered your own question there mate. Because...there are... so many...differences?

And you need to be paying attention, otherwise you just find yourself thinking #^$%&$%@!! I got thrown there again after it happens. :P

Yes, though it loses to mashing 2A because you'll hit them while they're whiffing their jab, so this whole setup depends on them getting you to respect them first.

Exactly; It doesn't help you tech throws - if they did a tick throw and you mashed a regular throw tech there, you'd get TRM'd as well.

The thing about the throw tech OS is that it doesn't really help you tech throws. You still have to time your tech correctly, or you will get TRM'd. What it does do is help you avoid getting CH because you whiffed a throw while trying to tech one. For example, if a Jin player runs up to you, he can throw you, or he can do 6B; If you instinctively push throw tech because you think he's going to throw you, and he does 6B instead, he will be airborne due to 6B, your throw will whiff, and he will counterhit you for massive damage. If you use the throw tech OS here instead, you will just get barrier, and you won't get CH; But in order to tech the throw if he does decide to throw you, you still need to push the buttons at the right time. The only real way to get better at teching throws is to be aware of when you are inside throw range (it's actually pretty damn short in CP) and be ready to tech. Fortunately, good use of barrier will mean that your opponent is almost never in a position to do a non-dash-up throw.

Hey, they're putting the customer first.

Sorry; Wasn't aware of the gatling change in Extend.

Just a tip here that was suggested to me, is that if Kagura likes to do his 'sword rush' (I forget the motion, but it's the one where he lunges across the screen and has projectile guardpoint) it can be beaten with jumpback or neutral jump falling j.C - you kinda just need to jump around a lot, but neutral becomes a lot more manageable once he can't just fly in and start doing stance nonsense at you. Baiting his DP...doesn't seem that much different from baiting Inferno Divider?

Gee, sorry. It's all my fault and I am terrible. Cool.

No, I understood what you were saying, and I added that last comment to basically say "Well, it's nice to land a DP and all, but that's not really enough to turn the matchup around." Similar, the problem with not being too aggressive with Jin (which is, admittedly, a good plan) is that there really isn't any reason for Jin to be super aggressive either. He too has projectiles, and they're better than ours for the neutral game (ours might be better as a safe pressure ender, but that's not what's important here.). Getting charges by backing off helps a little bit, but his normals still seem like a big problem. This generally seems to be what I see when I watch high end matches too.

I think the fundamental problem with the Jin matchup is that for me, at least, it's very difficult to avoid entering the '5C zone' while trying to approach him. 5C shuts down a lot of options, and leaves him with a lot of choices for what to do next, many of which will bring him in to apply pressure (I mean seriously, screw 5C jump cancel on block, and screw Jin's air normals.). It's very difficult for me to get through the area covered by 5D/2D/the edge of 5C and a Jin who has a strong grasp of these normals basically has to screw up to allow me to play. Even successfully DPing him out of or after 6B doesn't actually result in -progress- for me, it just means I'm not already losing.

The problem is that anytime that Mu can go into 6B (except, oddly, off 5A, which Mu like never uses, anyway) she can also go into 2B, which is stupid good, and will wreck any option you try to use that beats 6B. Your best bet against 6B is to block it, ideally, IB it, so you can just punish and have done, since she has basically no options on a blocked 6B (but if you're, y'know, playing Nemesis, you'll get DP'd for trying to punish it unless you're careful and/or IB).

At risk of going down this road again, not she did not. She got buffed in the most boring, unhelpful ways possible for the most part. I don't see "far better" at all.

Yeah. Story of today. "Oh, hey, I finally got hold of the PS3 and feel kindof ready for BB." >joins a room< "Okay, it's time to take the dog for a walk." -_-

Airgrabbing her out of j.2C was never easy. I ate -so- many CH j.2Cs because of it's stupid hurtbox. This matchup just sucks more every iteration.

Sure, but it's pretty clear the OP doesn't hate either of them. Also, how do you know if you enjoy playing them until you've played them for a while? (Barring certain obvious things like "I don't like zoners" or "I can't play charge characters.")