Airk

and you knew him for his entire fighting game life? I've never encountered anyone who said "I understood Carl immediately, but just couldn't wrap my head around Ragna!"

This isn't really a problem. If you can COUNT on people going DP all the time, you don't even NEED to do mixup or pressure.

I bet most players you know who started with complex characters didn't actually start playing fighting games with complex characters. The fact is that this genre is insane complicated, and if you're an ACTUAL beginner (see thread title) you don't need to pile on EXTRA complexity while you're trying to learn spacing.

Er, but it sounded like he was saying it whiffed in 1.1 but gets a purple grab in Extend, so either it's LESS pushback, or more range.

I don't entirely agree; Lots of stuff translates from "basic" characters to Hazama. Sure, you have the added aspect of having to learn chains, but that's just that - added. If you are looking to get better, faster, you're better off playing a character that teaches you stuff quicker, rather than distracting you with gimmicks. Then, once you feel comfortable with the game, you can move to someone more complex. Yes, some people don't have the patience for this. Some people also don't get good at fighting games. (Note: These are not necessarily the same people.)

I think Noel is a terrible character for beginners, because she inspires a lot of really bad habits, mostly around mashing buttons under all circumstances. Jin is perfectly fine - possibly even better than Ragna, as he's less likely to teach you to rely on certain things that won't work well as you get better (Lookin' at you, Gauntlet Hades!). His DPs are also less good, so that makes for less of a crutch. So yeah, totally play Jin. Or play whoever you like, really. Just not Noel. Or Arakune, who is another character who basically doesn't play the same game as anyone else.

So what is our "big punish with reasonable resources" combo now? In 1.1 I could do like 5.6K off a single charge install combo if I got a CH 5C with 50 meter and a charge. What can we do with similar "resources you might actually have" punish combos?

Ah, that means 623D finally has a point. Nice.

That sounds awful. =(

If it whiffs, it must be spacing. Most likely they slightly increased the range of the command grab, unless somehow they reduced the pushback on 5A.

So what DO you get? A green grab? If that's the case, yes, it's just the attack level change on 5A.

I don't understand. What do you mean by "is not allowed"? There are no circumstances where -something- shouldn't happen there. You should either get a purple grab, a green grab, or a throw whiff. There are no other logical outcomes, since 5A is, indeed, special cancellable.

For some reason, I am super bad at 5A/2A stagger. Either I do it too fast and there's no gap, or I do it too slow and they can mash me out, which pretty much defeats the point. Lately I've been doing a lot of 6C > 214B (which is a tiny gap in and of itself, and will catch people pushing buttons or trying to jump after 6C) > slightly delayed 22D, which punishes all the people who think 'Okay, I blocked 214B, it's my turn to push buttons now. Otherwise, yeah, delay 5C after 5BB to try to fool people into trying to mash because that's where I do 6A a lot, because I suck.

It's not "low" attacks. It's "foot attribute" attacks - this is why most people's 2A blows it up. Tager is weird though. His foot attribute attacks are 5B, 2B and 3C - I was expecting 2A and 2D to be foot, but the CP1 data says they're not.

214D sounds like garbage now, honestly, except for the "yay, combo part" nonsense. 22D plus on block is really nice, but oddly I never see anyone use it. j.214D has been able to do this forever, man.

Word: Taken. This makes me more hopeful.

Then why is it generating so much conversation about how many different things don't work and when? I don't remember this from previous versions.

Yeah, sorry, I'm with Zouf; Our combos are better (though seemingly at the cost of them being a character specific mess) 2C change is great, and that's it. Everything else is the same. Edit: Okay, the buffs to the command grab are pretty nice too.

True facts. For serious. You get what you pay for. I miss XBL all the time, but that's not enough to sell me an XB1. Of course, I don't have a PS4 either, so...

You have to wonder how fiddly the "miscellaneous" ones are, since most of that stuff would've been filed under "miscellaneous" already in my brain.

Hah, yeah. j.214D overhead would be so nice, but no, they have shattered our dreams once again.

I hate this kind of talk; No, her neutral will not always be awful because of her hitboxes...because hitboxes change every game. Tsubaki's normals are just a few frame data tweaks and hitbox adjustments away from being strong. Too bad they don't think we need that.

What do you mean "terrible again"? That implies that at some point she stopped. ;P But no, she's basically just changed around again. All her usual flaws are still there, and are dumb, but she ..uh...does a lot of damage now? Which means that at low-mid levels she's pretty good. At high levels, I think you need to be way better than your opponent to win, still.

Charge cancel. Charge Cancel > 2A is probably even fast enough after most normals that you'll be able to block even if 2A whiffs. Did you test to get that -12? Because that's a LOT better than it was in CP1.1; But even if it is, she should easily be within range for 5C. Also, there's no reason it should be 'easy' to IB 5CC since you can delay it.

Given that it's 22 frames of startup and -16 on block, treating it like a DP will work just fine. Alternatively, you can hard callout her hard callout with 3C (Her invuln frames don't last anywhere near to the end of her startup, and 3C has so many active frames there's no timing involved.) Also, 5CC> 6B should be safe against it. I think you were probably just being predictable with your pressure.