LastStarSaviour

THAT'S YOU! That's your own view on the situation. Why should I think the same way as you on a subject? Especially if you experience something in a match and it FEELS bs. That's the point of humans being given indivisual thought processes, so that we can come to our own conclusion on things, not what other people decide to hand out to us. Edit: I did say that the recovery on Yosuke's DP was hard to tell, which it kind of is if you're in the middle of a match. Unbeatable, no, hard to deal with at times, yes.

I still consider Yosuke's DP to be the best in the game, even after lab testing it (Chie's un-nerves me a bit now), and never once did I say it was unbeatable or whatever you're saying I said. AGAIN, you really need to read my posts before trying to put words in my mouth. As a matter of fact, the post I made wasn't even ABOUT his DP, it was about how I felt about the match-up in general. Naturally, everyone zoomed in on one aspect of it because it's easy to call me out and try to make me look stupid on that one subject then tackle everything I said as a whole. I've never liked grapplers, and most likely, I never will, no matter what tier they are. You say I should like the wake-up situations they put me in because they're grapplers alone? What sense does that make? If I find something frustrating, of course i'm going to rage at it. Will I eventually accept it, hell yeah, life moves on. However, you need to come to a realization that not everyone thinks the same as you. While you don't have to agree with me, you do have to accept and stop trying to criticize someone for their opinions. Edit: Yeah, Labrys made me rage that ONE day, due to the fact that I can't deal with her normals as well as I liked. I even went back and said I accepted it and tried to adjust to a style that fits the match-up, so yeah, I guess you could say that for the one instance, but that's it.

When have I referred to characters (other than Ragna) as braindead? Now you're putting words in my mouth. Considering everyone else's normals in the game, they're still pretty slow. I never said they were a problem though, so yeah.... Last I checked, I gave a well-thought out explanation of what I didn't like about the characters i've ever gotten into a debate about. Never did I say I didn't like something, on a whim. I even made a video once trying to give an example. You need to pay more attention to my posts instead of making assumptions based on the end result of discussions. Edit: You need to do your homework before trying to call someone out on a whim, good sir.

I've always done my homework before posting. What are you talking about? Edit: Just saw the Mitsuru frame data, damn these normals are slow as FUCK!

@Astaroth: I'm not pissed about what you're saying about Kanji, that's your character and you have the right to your opinion. For some reason, discussion about all the topics I bring up always seems to end in "You're just a bad player". It'd get to you too if you heard that shit after every response you get on a topic you're having issues with.

How the fuck? What kind of logic is that? Again, i'm not saying the whole match-up against Kanji is stupid. But the gap between the traditional grappler I know of and Kanji seem to differ quite a bit. Not to mention knock-down situations against him is much different as opposed to other grapplers, but I suppose that makes me a scrub? Wtf? Also, Mitsuru vs Kanji is not that far in my favor. Being good doesn't mean being unwinnable. Anyways, this discussion went from being about knock-down situations against Kanji into people apparently people being free for not being good at a slightly better match-up. As if player skill and having the resources necesary to be an adequate character just doesn't apply. Also, no one is calling a character out due to losing to them. Last night had nothing to do with the origins of the conversation. Whatever, I don't know why I bother to post anymore.

What is it with people and defending grapplers?

I thought you were referring to on block. It can be punished on whiff.

Leaving this here since you asked Astaroth. Edit: I can't punish 2C

So did this giant wall of text just get ignored? I hate having to re-iterate my points. The discussion was not about match-ups, it was about kanji having to work relatively less than any other grappler for his damage.

0_0

A standing 720, heard Skullgirls had something like that. Lawl

This is why i've never liked the concept of grapplers in the first place. I've always felt like in a situation in which a grappler knocks you down, on wake-up it should be a complete guessing game in which two players have the same options if they guess right. To elaborate further, Kanji vs Mitsuru. If I get knocked down by Kanji, here are my options: - Wake up, press one of my fastest normals - Wake up, press DP - Wake up, jump or short hop - Wake up, block Now the problem with these options arrive when the said grappler has options that kill multiple options. For instance, If I wake up block, I get grabbed. If I wake pressing one of my fastest normals, I get grabbed. His grab comes out in like 3 or 4 frames doesn't it? My 5A comes out in 7 frames. If I DP out, his grab goes through my DP and I get punished (I'm not sure if it's worse for Elizabeth because of the way her DP works). Wake up jump or short hop, he's not that punishable on a whiffed grab and if you short hop, any button he presses equals instant combo or getting DPed. Also, I have to worry about Kanji setting up his Persona to catch my jump outs. I feel that both players should generally be at a position where they are both going to be taking the same amount of risk-reward for the guessing game that comes from a knockdown against a grappler, but that's not really the case against Kanji. Topped with the fact that every hit he does leads to 3-4k, it gets pretty stupid. Are we really going to ignore this giant wall of text that I just wrote not too long ago?

@Jackie: I know, bro. Starting to realise how little I can actually stand situations I deem "bs". It's kind of sad but I need to just leave fighters alone altogether, it's a lot healthier for me. @Volpe: UNIB looks really good.

...Sure, let's go with that. Jk, I always keep in mind everyone's insight. It's just, everyday I play I get more frustrated, and everyday, I question why I even bothered to pick this game up in the first place. I thought it was going to eliminate a lot of the day 1 bs, but I was wrong, horribly wrong. It gets worst as time goes on. I don't know what to do anymore. @Jackie: I think Papstr did the same thing once. Alright then, I couldn't care less. Happy now?

I honestly could care less at this point man.

I tried looking up my matches in the little bracket thing, didn't work for some reason. Doesn't really matter much anyway. I've lost most of my enthusiasm to compete in it. On that note, i'm probably going to drop P4U until some solid frame data comes out or something. It's too random for me to deal with without it.This is the first game i've ever needed to take a break from it its first month.

Oh crap, IT IS tomorrow, isn't it? I don't know who the heck i'm fighting.

So salty, That last little lag spike screwed my combo over and cost me the match. I gotta learn to stop fighting Kanji players on net-play. @Astaroth: Oh great, just what I need. Another video of me losing to Kanji. Phuck my life!

Here's the link to the stream if you're bored and want to see Volpe and me get bodied: http://www.twitch.tv/TBTGang

It's not really that he's invulnerable, rather it's that his persona is taking huge hits for Narukami while he's standing right in the path of my attack. Maybe I missed something but for the most part, I know he was standing completely still when I threw out the DP. Yeah, I agree with you, the amount of character craziness just seems to pile on more and more as I play the game though, making high-level play hard to really see.

You just need a counter-assualt bro. A GOOD ONE!

@Grimstar: What could they nerf about her? Damage? Even that is a meh idea. if you get counter-hit by Mitsuru, you were probably doing something unsafe in the first place. There's not really anything broken about her persay. People need to stop associating high-tier with "broken". For the record, i'm not complaining about her being "so-called" top tier. Personally, I don't think she's the best character in the game. She's at that status right now because the majority of people who fight her generally get blown up for not being fundamentally-sound and choose to bitch about it rather than just figuring out how to deal with her. I'm more or less complaining about the amount of character bs I have to shift through before I can actually start analyzing the player and their mind-set.

I agree that Mitsuru vs Elizabeth is frustratingly retarded for Elizabeth. I honestly didn't see it at first, but now i'm starting to realise that a lot of the answers to my problems are in Coup Droit, and while this is fine and dandy, it does kill a lot of the reason why I picked up Mitsuru in the first place. As time goes i'm sure something will change about that, hopefully. The only real qualms I have with Narukami is the fact that when I go to punish a few of his persona summons, or I go to punish him while his persona is out, for some reason he has invulnernability. Just played a match a while ago where the narukami player thrust Izanagi forward and I proceeded to DP (because Narukami was in range) and his persona ate the attack completely for him. Thus, leading to me getting punished for trying to punish something unsafe. This seems to happen a lot with Narukami not eating my attacks as his persona just says "i'll take that L for you", it's really strange. On the topic of Narukami anyways, he has some pretty good normals. His 5B has just about the same range as my 5A except probably faster and his As are good as well. His gauntlest Hades 2.0 B (his dive sword) is +3 safe on block for some reason. As for the Izanagi sandwiches, I find them much easier to block offline, even though I still say no character should be able to sandwich like Carl from BB, but that's just me. Ultimately though, I think you're feeling like you're spending more time eliminating character bs than you are actually trying to break down and understand your opponent. There's a lot of it at this level of play. All we can really do about it now is hope that there are some strong answers for every character at high-level play.

OH MAH GOD! SHUUTO MATCHES! Just when I was feeling down about this game, I get this heavenly gift: Shuuto vs Part 1 Shuuto vs Part 2 Shuuto vs Part 3 @Kain: Honestly, I wouldn't worry about a tier list for this game. We're only like a month in and people are already deciding where characters belong? Come on now. Not to mention the tier list changes like every two days.