LastStarSaviour

How the fuck? What kind of logic is that? Again, i'm not saying the whole match-up against Kanji is stupid. But the gap between the traditional grappler I know of and Kanji seem to differ quite a bit. Not to mention knock-down situations against him is much different as opposed to other grapplers, but I suppose that makes me a scrub? Wtf? Also, Mitsuru vs Kanji is not that far in my favor. Being good doesn't mean being unwinnable. Anyways, this discussion went from being about knock-down situations against Kanji into people apparently people being free for not being good at a slightly better match-up. As if player skill and having the resources necesary to be an adequate character just doesn't apply. Also, no one is calling a character out due to losing to them. Last night had nothing to do with the origins of the conversation. Whatever, I don't know why I bother to post anymore.

What is it with people and defending grapplers?

I thought you were referring to on block. It can be punished on whiff.

Leaving this here since you asked Astaroth. Edit: I can't punish 2C

So did this giant wall of text just get ignored? I hate having to re-iterate my points. The discussion was not about match-ups, it was about kanji having to work relatively less than any other grappler for his damage.

0_0

A standing 720, heard Skullgirls had something like that. Lawl

This is why i've never liked the concept of grapplers in the first place. I've always felt like in a situation in which a grappler knocks you down, on wake-up it should be a complete guessing game in which two players have the same options if they guess right. To elaborate further, Kanji vs Mitsuru. If I get knocked down by Kanji, here are my options: - Wake up, press one of my fastest normals - Wake up, press DP - Wake up, jump or short hop - Wake up, block Now the problem with these options arrive when the said grappler has options that kill multiple options. For instance, If I wake up block, I get grabbed. If I wake pressing one of my fastest normals, I get grabbed. His grab comes out in like 3 or 4 frames doesn't it? My 5A comes out in 7 frames. If I DP out, his grab goes through my DP and I get punished (I'm not sure if it's worse for Elizabeth because of the way her DP works). Wake up jump or short hop, he's not that punishable on a whiffed grab and if you short hop, any button he presses equals instant combo or getting DPed. Also, I have to worry about Kanji setting up his Persona to catch my jump outs. I feel that both players should generally be at a position where they are both going to be taking the same amount of risk-reward for the guessing game that comes from a knockdown against a grappler, but that's not really the case against Kanji. Topped with the fact that every hit he does leads to 3-4k, it gets pretty stupid. Are we really going to ignore this giant wall of text that I just wrote not too long ago?

@Jackie: I know, bro. Starting to realise how little I can actually stand situations I deem "bs". It's kind of sad but I need to just leave fighters alone altogether, it's a lot healthier for me. @Volpe: UNIB looks really good.

...Sure, let's go with that. Jk, I always keep in mind everyone's insight. It's just, everyday I play I get more frustrated, and everyday, I question why I even bothered to pick this game up in the first place. I thought it was going to eliminate a lot of the day 1 bs, but I was wrong, horribly wrong. It gets worst as time goes on. I don't know what to do anymore. @Jackie: I think Papstr did the same thing once. Alright then, I couldn't care less. Happy now?

I honestly could care less at this point man.

I tried looking up my matches in the little bracket thing, didn't work for some reason. Doesn't really matter much anyway. I've lost most of my enthusiasm to compete in it. On that note, i'm probably going to drop P4U until some solid frame data comes out or something. It's too random for me to deal with without it.This is the first game i've ever needed to take a break from it its first month.

Oh crap, IT IS tomorrow, isn't it? I don't know who the heck i'm fighting.

So salty, That last little lag spike screwed my combo over and cost me the match. I gotta learn to stop fighting Kanji players on net-play. @Astaroth: Oh great, just what I need. Another video of me losing to Kanji. Phuck my life!

Here's the link to the stream if you're bored and want to see Volpe and me get bodied: http://www.twitch.tv/TBTGang

It's not really that he's invulnerable, rather it's that his persona is taking huge hits for Narukami while he's standing right in the path of my attack. Maybe I missed something but for the most part, I know he was standing completely still when I threw out the DP. Yeah, I agree with you, the amount of character craziness just seems to pile on more and more as I play the game though, making high-level play hard to really see.

You just need a counter-assualt bro. A GOOD ONE!

@Grimstar: What could they nerf about her? Damage? Even that is a meh idea. if you get counter-hit by Mitsuru, you were probably doing something unsafe in the first place. There's not really anything broken about her persay. People need to stop associating high-tier with "broken". For the record, i'm not complaining about her being "so-called" top tier. Personally, I don't think she's the best character in the game. She's at that status right now because the majority of people who fight her generally get blown up for not being fundamentally-sound and choose to bitch about it rather than just figuring out how to deal with her. I'm more or less complaining about the amount of character bs I have to shift through before I can actually start analyzing the player and their mind-set.

I agree that Mitsuru vs Elizabeth is frustratingly retarded for Elizabeth. I honestly didn't see it at first, but now i'm starting to realise that a lot of the answers to my problems are in Coup Droit, and while this is fine and dandy, it does kill a lot of the reason why I picked up Mitsuru in the first place. As time goes i'm sure something will change about that, hopefully. The only real qualms I have with Narukami is the fact that when I go to punish a few of his persona summons, or I go to punish him while his persona is out, for some reason he has invulnernability. Just played a match a while ago where the narukami player thrust Izanagi forward and I proceeded to DP (because Narukami was in range) and his persona ate the attack completely for him. Thus, leading to me getting punished for trying to punish something unsafe. This seems to happen a lot with Narukami not eating my attacks as his persona just says "i'll take that L for you", it's really strange. On the topic of Narukami anyways, he has some pretty good normals. His 5B has just about the same range as my 5A except probably faster and his As are good as well. His gauntlest Hades 2.0 B (his dive sword) is +3 safe on block for some reason. As for the Izanagi sandwiches, I find them much easier to block offline, even though I still say no character should be able to sandwich like Carl from BB, but that's just me. Ultimately though, I think you're feeling like you're spending more time eliminating character bs than you are actually trying to break down and understand your opponent. There's a lot of it at this level of play. All we can really do about it now is hope that there are some strong answers for every character at high-level play.

OH MAH GOD! SHUUTO MATCHES! Just when I was feeling down about this game, I get this heavenly gift: Shuuto vs Part 1 Shuuto vs Part 2 Shuuto vs Part 3 @Kain: Honestly, I wouldn't worry about a tier list for this game. We're only like a month in and people are already deciding where characters belong? Come on now. Not to mention the tier list changes like every two days.

Yeah, Ayashi's Aegis is definitely who you need to be facing if you want to learn the match-up. Probably the best Aigis in the country at the moment. He'll teach you the wonders of how to guess wrong and take 4k for it each time with true oki. Getting blown up by Kanji on stream. Q_Q

My rage has quelled a bit. Really have to watch out for this robot chick's hitboxes. They're really good.

I know his DP combos only work unless he hits you air-bourne though. Other than that, no, they aren't ground-specific. Another tournament in the middle of the month? I like this!

All of his normals. His As are about 3k, his 5B is 6k, and caesar (aerial one) goes into 7k. I'm not sure about the grounded version of Caesar's sword.

@Tad: I could really go for a good set of BB matches right about now myself. The more I play Persona, the more I start missing it. You still have a copy right? We need to get together and play whenever possible. @Woz: You mean Mystline by Nujabes, right? I think you'll enjoy playing an instrument. Being able to create music is one of the greatest talents mankind has to offer. At least, that's how I felt when I bought my first drumset and started practicing. Learn the piano if you want women to swoon over you, or learn the violin if you want be that guy everyone says has etiquette and class.