FatalCounter

Yo, Reaper you are playing Relius even Jin now? Come on man, need to focus on Kagura and Amane maybe or Nu-13. I think Amane is better in this version. And why are you hating my Mu-12. She is so sexy, right?

This, You should have believed me. I am an "Old" Fighting game player and a mathmaniac, I know how nerfs look like lol. I may take your statement as my profile signature if I find how to do it. Edit: I am was looking at Kagura frame data and changes. In BBCP 1.1 6A is still a lvl 4 move with 22F startup, 19F of recovery and 27F of hitstun. That leaves us to +8 (27 - 19 = 8) on hit and we might be able to 1F link with 5B or 2F link with 2A if we are close enough. 3C connects with CH 6A even in our home version. My point is I think it is possible to combo from 6A without RC, at least it should be tested. Take Jin 6A for instance, it has 23F of hitstun and 22F of recovery now (it was 20 before the patch) and it is +1 hit. (23 - 22 = 1). Hazama 6A is neutral on hit since it has 17F of hitstun and 17F of recovery. That would make sense for me. ArcSys can't give us a raw 6A with this character. Still salty about it though.

Where do you usually play online? Europe and Middle East? I know a guy from Turkey with good netplay between us. If you are able to play in Europe, you should telland we will have some fun by playing vs each other. Let me know

Where is this? I think we might have the same gameplay lol. Only our combos routes seem a bit different and need to work a bit on your defense. Makoto mixups are not that godlike. Well I am an online warrior. I can't go for some risky stuffs. Good stuff, I liked it

I only hope 6C still combo with 6DB in the corner at least. For 6C combo into 2DA can be a buff for midscreen combos since we dont have 2DA > 46B anymore. It would be so sad to not use 6DB anymore except for mixups. Hopefully 2DA > 46B will work in the corner.

I am bad I saw the changes on SRK and it is not mentionned. Well we will just gonna pray to hit them with this move. No more Free Command grab free corner damage. We gonna find something. BTW on that video 2DA hitting was pushing the oppenent way behind. We won't be able to connect. They are just forcing us to use air stance drive, F...! Corner combos will still work, midscreen combos are just meh. lol

Where did you see they raped air stance cancel? Well... we got different opinions but I strongly believe he could (waiting until 19) be better.

He was joking. You gonna recognize that he got more buffs than nerfs. We will lose some damage but we have now a really solid character with strong neutral + safer character. Lets do point by point. 5C will be always connects with 6DC midscreen and in the corner we won't have to time correctly 6DC for combos, making it easier. you are crying about -100 damage and -4F recovery? Come on 2C recovery was so bad, now -10 recovery frame + a safe 2DB (welcome to wonderland). Ragna could just block that move and chase you with 5B, now he gonna have fun. BTW with these numbers, it is safe on block. 3C is a bit nerfed because it will not be posssible to do 3C > 2DC > 46A> 5B > 3C > 2DC but the fireball mixup will still work. Not a big deal. 6A, I really hate they took it away but it may make our game kind of tricky. faster, safer and pretty sure linkable on CH. Interesting for me. 6C with less recovery, better blockstun, by knocking away lower, it can make it easier to link with 6DA. It was kinda tricky midscreen. No H inv is a nerf but it will still hit people above him like Hakumen 2C. Go and tell a Hakumen player that he can't AA with 2C bc it is not Head inv. lol Lets not talk about stances cancel buffs. 5DA is buffed, 5DB is nerfed, 5DC is buffed and now a sort of AA. 2DA is nerfed for midscreen damage but buffed with a air stance cancel, even faster. 2DB is seriously buffed. safe on block = we gonna ride that sword. 2DC untouched!!! 6DA nerfed but most of combos will still connect. 6DB untouched. 6DC is kinda the same, do you really use this move to go through super? Even Shippu super collides with it and you take more then 1200. I guess I gotta respect Jin and Rachel super (I think it still gonna beat this one) 28C is nerfed? come on we couldn't even get any real damage from it. Wall slam on CH will be very interesting, it may connect with some other starter. Now we have an OD super combo ender for better dmg. I appreciate these changes and I think Kagura is gonna be better.

Yo Kagura is just godlike now, I just love these changes OMG!!!!! Overall he is way better, I won't complain. Even Hakumen 2C doesn't have Head invincibility but try to jump over it. They just made a way more solid character I love it.

yeah! i didn't know how to call it.

This, It is really tricky. This is the easiest way for me to confirm on both situations. Most of the time, it works.

This tho, Jin DPs suck and the only one that was good get nerfed. Fubuki was the best. All his DPs are just too risky with low reward. His mixup game will get even weaker since his 6A is nerfed and freely punishable on block. The best thing about Jin is his very strong neutral game and a move for any situation. That is it. He will be A- tier or B+ tier. Hakumen nerfs are only on comebacks and metagama gain but his combo route are still the same and his footsies game have not be touched. Gauge nerf will hurt a bit but Hazama, Taokaka and Valk got serious damage nerfs. He will remain strong. His name is Hakumen after all.

I am just waiting for Kagura and Kokonoe changes!!!! Why is it taking so long? Lmao.

This is a difficult matchup but we can do it. First of all you have to always check Ignis, the main problem. You can easily react to Relius. Relius will always want to put you into a random blockstring, this is his main goal and he have 3 options to do so. 214A, 214B and 214C all these Ignis moves can lock you down and give Relius a free get in. It is pretty easy to react to react vs 214A e 214B when Relius is not close and most of time he is not because scared. Val Tus (214C) is the biggest problem. You have some options - 5A or dash 5A and jump after since he can punish you his Fireball. - 6B and jump for the same purpose but a bit slower and with risk to get countered by Ignis. - 5C or 2C cancelled into a Fireball, this is the best option but you can be countered any time if you are at the end of screen or midscreen. - Super jump D, this is really good because you dodge everything and if Relius try to get in you can cancel it and press B or C or even block on time. BTW always check Ignis position since 4D can counter you too. Relius pressure with Ignis can be DP'ed easily you only have to check what Relius is doing here. he can dodge your punish attempt. Any crazy mixup attempt should be DP'ed, make them afraid to do their stuff and condition their game. That would make them go for tight blockstrings and easy for you to block. You Win!!! 5C and 2C are good vs him, you need to be at range because if you whiff 2C for example, 214A or 214B can counter Kagura and free combo for Relius. 2C and 5C are perfect to punish a blocked 236C (Id Lauger) which is -23 on block. Fireballs are good but Ignis go through them and Relius can easily harass you with his own ones. A orb should only be thrown during blockstrings or when they don't expect it but never B orb. and B orb? only for combos. Even if you try, 214A or 214C will destroy it easily. Remember, Ignis is not affected by fireballs. Now the big one, 236A of Relius, his dodging move, if you are used to throw drives randomly, this move will just make you angry and you will certainly lose. Most of Kagura drives and C normals have long recovery. So if he is close to you and dodge these moves, that means free punish, sometimes even a CH. I can even dodge 5C > 2DB. Unfortunately those drives end before his 236A cinematic and he get a combo. Less usage of random drives and need to learn to cancel quickly normals into A orb. At neutral, 6DC is a bit risky because he can dodge it or you can get countered by a Ignis special, the worse is CH 214C giving him a free 4K combo midscreen. However if you counter him you get a ~5k combo midscreen. This is a 50/50. Just make sure to check Ignis health. 2DB is better, it travels and recovers faster and get you close to him for harassment. If he block one of your drives, please don't do another one and bait his Led Ley, Bingo you get a free CH. Since most of Relius jump attacks don't have great horizzontal hitboxes, Kagura jump back C will beat them even most Ignis specials. His jump AAA can be block crouching but risky given that he can cancel it into jB or jC. 5A will beat jB or jA, but for jC, you have to time it correctly, it has a big vertical hitbox. his 5B is too strong, just find random solutions vs it. Too fast, low recovery and too safe. best option is (4) 1236C but why wasting a super right? These are some tricks I can give, there are a lot more but when you understand the matchup, it is winnable, just play safe and wait the right time to pressure Relius, his defensive options are not great. Good luck!

Seo with my color!!!!!! That color 3 is mine, lol just kidding. Good stuff Sir. Now that he will have a OD super ender, I will use it more.

Lol, too funny. Just want to remind that Mu DP wins vs any DP in the game when it clashes. I know that because I play as her, sir!

If you pretty high you can't but if close to the ground and since clash does like a Rapid Cancel you should be able to land and do another DP as soon as possible. I actually do it so....

You are wrong on most of these affirmations. You can cancel into itself on clash by just doing maintaining down and doing up + C as soon as you see a clash and it is prett easy to do actually. You can react to superflash and I did it many times vs Hazama and Kagura Shockwave super. It is really easy to dash even fullscreen and DP, did you know that? If you do 66 then maintain it to 3 direction you will continue to dash and if you input up with C the DP will comes out. It is very useful when you release a fireball and someone try to jump over it. You should learn it.

This, lol. I am sure you play vs turtle Kaguras who just throw fireballs and 6DC and wait you to jump and DP, right? I am a pink Kagura player and by playing Relius too I know exactly the matchup. Don't get me wrong Relius is good vs Kagura but the way I play it you will be so surprised and get bodied as most of Relius players I face. I don't have to throw drives and Fireballs fullscreen why? and I can dodge all your Ignis and fireball zoning by just super jumping and Drive to stay in the air and cancel it before landing. Even Val Tus is not a true blockstring so I can either DP some mixups attempts or super after the last hit. I can easily DP Ignis super and pass to the other side for free. I can Rapid cancel it to make it safer, all I need to do is to Instant block it crouching. Jump back C timed correctly destroy all Ignis specials you can throw and most of your get in attempts. Thrust me it is not a very bad matchup, you just need to be patient and harass Relius the iright time. BTW 2C and 5C are free punish everytime I block your 236C and you don't RC, fireball should only be used to reset pressure and force you to do some panic moves. You will understand when you will fight a decent Kagura player though.

Well as a Kagura player, come and have fun with me. He has what a strong DP but damage you get from is so little except from Air ending with suoer = ~3k We really use his DP to make people respect our wake up or make them afarid t press many buttons even all resets BS. However, when I talk about Kagura reversal, the first thing that comes in my mind is his Shockwave super, it is fast, safe on block and make people very angry (lol). His Backdash? it is quite fast but OMG the recovery!!! it is like you are locked with 10F of recovery!? I just pray they give him a 22F Backdash that would mean a lot for us. -Less recovery after his backdash movement -Safer backdash after 5DA maybe 2C or 5C will connect after a FC 5DA> backdash and would make only -8 on blobk. -That will ease corner combos that are too difficult to time correctly with a slow backdash -Make his long-range footsies less difficult. Lets hope they do this. Amane and Bullet got a lot of buffs today because they suck, just give him some and we will be fine. LOL -

@Tekka, you need to calm down because they are a lot of nonsense you saying. Just to remind you that even 2DA > j5DA still works. Just relax and you will understand what we are talking about and if you can't handle some tweaks and changes just drop him and find a top tier, ..... What? He is not even top tier. Oh well... he will be easy to drop then.

I will wait for Kagura changes before saying he has been nerfed. From notes he seems more solid. BTW 2DA is 16 + 17f = 33F but the same stance leads you to 2DB which is tricky and his 5C blockstun is amazing and lock you down for like 25F, 23F for 2C. Good luck if you want to block. If you are good Kagura player, you would never want to start your combo with 2DA because that means it gonna end soon (if no RC) and you can't do 5K or 6k except from the corner where you have choice for the switch side route, so.... 28C sticks on wall the corner now, which means many possibilties. 5DC sligtly moves forward which can be easy to get another combo route in the corner. 2DB will moves faster and the second is now lvl 5 which makes it safe!? (something from -9 to -6?). 2DA will be safe air stance cancellable and it might brings us a very interesting midscreen combo. 3C will now be safe or less punishable on block. His big nerf will be his 6A not normal cancellable and I am really sad (lol) but we still have all other oki. I might enjoy the new one. Eh and all his corner combos might work the same but a bit less damaging.

Well is it just me or Taokaka get nerfed. Her nerfs seem like big nerfs to me. Recovery of her get in moves and even her backdash, P2 of her jD has been nerfed too. I really believe she might not be top tier anymore. Overall her nerfs are serious. I think Kagura might get better overall. I asked Xie about Japanese Kagura's players thought on Kagura changes and he told me that they are not too worried about his damage but are very confidant on his neutral getting better. Even Xie who tried him said he might be cheap and very solid.

You are right about those dashes but he only dash if you press A, B or C during that Stance (6D). 6DA will dash forward and hit before the opponent, pretty slow, only used in combos, especially midscreen combos. not safe of block and almost never used in neutral game. 6DB will dash forward and cross up only if your opponent is not full screen away. Mostly used in corner combos and cross ups mixups. Even this one is not safe but at least it has more blockstun and counter most of people if you stance cancel it with another move when they try to press a B or C normal. This move can also be used to get off from the corner. After a orb, most people tend to jump, if you time it well, you will always get off the corner even if they block, but keep in mind you can be punished. 6DC is not a real dash but like a charging move, invincible vs projectiles, unsafe on blcok if close but safe if well-spaced. Leads to huge damaging combo after a counter hit. Big damage by itself (1200 is good). Combo filter move in the corner since it connects to most of his drives. You can't and will never cancel a 6D drive into another 6D drive even during Overdrive, that would be so cheap, lol. After a blocked 6D drive, you have 2 options, or use a 5D drive either 2D drive. And after a succesful hit from a 6D drive, you 4 options. Those 2 enumerated earlier + his special moves and his supers.

Kagura vs Mu-12 is a nightmare but you can do it if you do less mistakes. First of all you should acknowlegge that she has better normals than yours and she is not forced to come to you. BTW this MU is not even that strong. Forgive my poor english, it is not my first language but i hope you got my points. these are some advices after watching that video. Seo already did a good job. Super jumps, air dashes and knowledge of her movement are necessary. Importance here is not always to hit her but to touch her and disactivate stein attack. You should also know Steins do not cheap even charged steins, so no need to barrier block them. By barrier blocking them, you reaction is longer. Always instant block them and then react. Instant jump C is also a good option vs her but you should drive cancel it if it get blocked. 2C and 5C are also good options, only sometimes esp 2C but if she throws a 5C that will beat you most of the time, be aware. You should use these long-ranged moves in anticipation not on reaction since her DP can't punish you if well spaced, 5C will never clash with her 5C bc of level of the move and you should be charging the orb while doing this and react with 2DB if it hits. Sometimes, only sometimes 2DB is a better option than 6DC, because it is faster, its whiff recovery is shorter and if she jumps you should have enough timz to throw a DP and it travel faster and mess air lasers. It will make you closer to her. For example, instant jump C into 1DB is very good but can be DP'ed; not a be=ig deal tho. 800 dmg from her DP, Kagura can take it. You have to always go for resets, these are the key. Always end your combos to another crazy setup in order to keep it in your favor. You have to take some risks but not some crazy commitments that will get you countered. Optimize your combos, every combo should be an opportunity to hurt her so bad; For example a CH 6DC should be lead to a 5K combo, since she only has 10K health; half of her life should be gone. That will be make your opponent think twice the next time. If you get CH 6DC while she is doing 236D, 28C is your best option. If will negate the returning laser and will keep yourself safe. Finally, when you have life lead, you should never commit yourself, stay where you are, even crouching. That will force her to come in as I told you before, there is no chep if you block steins, even the charged ones and no need to barrier block them.