Myoro

Using Ignis is fine, but combos like 6A>2D>665B>5C(2)>6C>41236B+6D>5B>2C>sj.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B cost 4300 IG and do 2706 damage become wasteful when you can do more damage for less meter. If you can do the same thing with less cost and more profit, it makes sense to do so no? In the spirit of that, on hit and block 6A can confirm into 6D for cheaper. It has much more hit and blockstun than people give it credit for. 6D is also 7% cheaper in terms of IG so it's 100% better to use in any situation where you have to reset pressure other than for setting up empty jumps or continuing pressure from a blocked 236C. (I am although experimenting with a way to make the confirm cheaper and more damaging using 2D instead but for now 6A>6D>665B>3C>6D>662C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B is our combo meaning 6A>6D>665B is our hit/block confirm.) Believe it or not, in every situation you used 2D in this video, 6D would have been cheaper and more effective, save for one where you had Ignis go half way across the screen and tank a hit to win the match. That's still about 95% of the move's usage. 6D is definitely something you should rotate in when you can, it's cheaper and does most of the same things 2D does. Speaking of not-so-good usage of 2D, when getting oki from ~j.214B, 2D isn't the best, especially when used by itself. It can be used but only in concert with 22B will it do something worthwhile (which is catch rolls and force the opponent into blocking from a safe distance.) Save that for when they have a DP, you realllly need them blocking for some reason, and they don't have Haku's 2D/Yukikaze to nullify said set-up. Otherwise, generally you want to land>dash up to them>then use 5B(2C) when you see/hear them roll. this catches forward and backward roll as well as quick get up, and lets you recover with frame advantage on neutral tech. Also if the 5B doesn't hit the 2C doesn't come out, so you're relatively safe doing this. 663C>236C~214B is commonly used to stack on damage on delay tech and 2B can also be used for many of the same things 5B is used for only it doesn't allow for any further delay to their rolling. Learning how to do this well is crucial to Relius' midscreen oki game When near the corner at all confirm into 236C as soon as possible. Know the range thhat 236C~214C will wall-bounce intimately, because as long as it does, you can combo from it. For example 662B>5B>236C~214C from the furthest distance 214C can wall-bounce still goes into 665B>2C>TKj.236C>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>4D>6A for a delicious combo that does about 1.2K more than what you were confirming into near-corner. During a Duo Bios blockstring I saw you use 2B>5B a bit, and as long as they're blocking Ignis you don't really have to put in any non high/low/left/right components. Ignis takes care of mash for ya. 2B>6A or j.C/empty-jump stuff/low airdash stuff is what you go for during the first 8 hits then you can go into cross-ups and using led ley to phase through them during the last 3 hits because they have gaps. There were moments like when you did 6A>236C>rapid>662C>TKj.236C>2C>6C>41236B>5B>2C>sj.B>j.C>j.236C where not comboing right cost you a match. Always consider what you want to do in your combo before the j.236C, and even if you didn't get as much damage as you might of hoped end solo combos that use TKj.236C>2C>6C>41236B with 3C to avoid airteching them. Finally, meter usage. First things first /never Duo Bios until you see which way they're rolling. If you want you can even use 5B>Bios or 5C>Bios to guarantee they'll block it./ And more importantly, while Duo Bios is great, but it's not as important as some other stuff. Meter for Relius does two important things; it lets him counter assault and it lets him solo combo, and it should be hoarded for these two reasons. Midscreen it lets him do stuff like most anything>236C>Rapid>66>5B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>sj.b>j.C>j.236C~j.214B and in the corner you can do that same combo with an optional de-summon for Ignis immediately after the rapid. When used this way, you're spending 50% meter to turn 1.4K into 4K and a completely refilled Ignis with a great oki situation to boot, which is one heckava deal. On the other side of things, I don't have to tell you how hard Relius has it when he's on the defensive, and counter assault makes it your turn again and gives you a free pass to get the ball rolling which to a character like Rel is invaluable. Really a distortion should only be used when it will kill, for Tedo that's at the end of a combo when they have less than 1K HP remaining, or when there's a punish situation that will also kill. For Bios that's then they have under 3K and you know you can crack their guard open using it (or if Bios can win a clash that's about to happen which it often can. :v] ) Hope this was helpful! ^_^"

From what Ziggy told me, the schedule's flexible ATM. He wants to make it on a day that's good for people's availability. I'm hyped for this!

I got FC6C>41236B>2C>SIAD>j.B>j.C>2C>SIAD>j.B>j.C>6B>sj.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B to work for [3614DMG/+26HT/1000IG] I wonder what else we can get to work.

Honestly corner gives us the ability to get 4D as a knockdown option which lets us safejump while netting more damage, using the same amount of Ignis, and keeping Ignis free for a distortion ender or other option. 5B>3C>236C~214C>66>delay>2C>jump cancel 8>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>4D does 4511 damage gives 32HT, costs 20% Ignis and will let you safejump at your leisure. One more thing, j.B generally held to be the stronger safejump option as it catches rolls more consistently. ~214B into doublejump then falling j.B/j.C is an important safejump for resummon combos and combos that reach the corner very late, but 4D>6A>214C/236D is really strong and usually takes precedent when possible. In most situations where you can ~j.214B>safejump j.C you can also do ~j.214C>2C+4D>6A>236D for unblockable conversion which is nice if you have the additional 25% Ignis to burn. (Note that if you have 50% meter, you can simply do 236D+j.C>2C>236C>Rapid>5D>665C(2)>2C>6C>41236B>5C(2)>2C>sj.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214C>2C+4D>6A>236D, get 3.5K additional damage, and start the whole thing over again with a new bar of Ignis.)

If it's the 2C>j.B>j.C>2C there's a trick to doing it. firstly it's ten times easier out of a super Instant air dash, so 41236B>2C>2766>j.B>micro-delay>j.C>2C is the input Secondly try to get the 41236B to bounce as low as possible before the 2C comes out. I don't know why but it makes the SIAD that much easier. Lastly, if you're actually going to use this I recommend 2C>S(uper)IAD>j.B>j.C>5C>sj>j.B>j.C as it's easier and does more damage. Good luck! EDIT: Saw the vid, my tip should still help. I thought the challenge was Stuff>2C>6C>41236B >SIAD>j.B>j.C>2C lol.

Well I think that depends on your situation. If they still have a lot of HP then yeah 4D>Vinum>Cross-up safe-jump unblockable is super good, if not then 6A>ODC>3C>632146D is just as good if not better for getting that kill. OD Vinum's strengths: can be used to get a very potent unblock for 8K+ damage from initial combo+reset OD Vinum's weaknesses: the opponent's OD as a reversal can throw a wrench in it, also if they predict your cross-up they can DP>Rapid it like any other I think. I don't know a ton about using OD for damage, but first few hits>OD>3C/2C>214A>5D>5B>stuff>j.236C~j.214B ender is what you use to save Ignis from death/get an Ignis bar back and deal 4K+. I should really work on common OD combos that do a ton of damage, but I'm finding that beating the utility of my 6K combo for 3K Ignis and 25% starting heat is a hard task to accomplish. I have some stuff in the works though.

Relius' CS-10 and CS-13 are important to me especially. They're the mismatching palettes for Relius and Ignis. CS-13 is the MacRelius and Hamburglar Ignis palette that is especially close to my heart. If anyone doesn't have a preference and would feel like boosting these palette's chances ever so slightly, I'd be grateful. <3

Terumi's 6D s apparently 4 hits now though if I read that loke info right.

Ah crud, my bad. XD But yeah, re-recording shouldn't be too much of a hassle as optimization has become easier with the new combo timer system making combos more standard in general. Come to think about it, we could show various reset opportunities, oki alternatives, burst baits, and distortion finisher damage as well in the "BnB" clips. It would also be neat to show things like the absolute max distance a corner conversion can take place from. (IE: at what point on the screen a Ragna can/should convert into 623D236C236C instead of going for a midscreen combo that just accepts that the corner will not come into play and does not make use of it.) That would likely require some way to measure how far one is in stage or something (I'm thinking maybe by counting the tiles from the wall in training stage to get an exact estimate? That might be tedious though.) If we did that we could make a sort of search where you could put factors like "combo from 5B" with "X space between characters" on "Non-CH standing ground hit" from "X or fewer/greater tiles in-stage" and out would pop the optimal combo for that situation. One could also highlight or filter out character specifics and such. If I wanted to know the optimal confirm from Relius' 5A, on air counter hit, that was close and low to the ground from 60% of the screen away or further from the corner I'm facing, that works on Rachel, I'd not get something that stupidly specific, and instead get something like 5A/2A>2C>6C>41236B>5B>2C>j.C>j.236C~j.214B which works on everybody everywhere from most every kind of 5A air hit, CH or not, that you could expect to see. The damage from converting from CH5A to 6C or whatever have you would be neglegabe. Expecting a combo for literally every conceivable incredibly specific situation a game could generate would be ludicrous. Now if someone found a combo that was Rachel specific, could only be done at 60% of the stage or further or got a much better prize outta that 6C confirm, they could put that in the engine under those specifications too if they so felt like it. It's an idea that needs a lot of polish but an interesting one I think.

As much as I disdain the PS4 for it making the user pay for internet they've already payed for it does seem to be the console that much of the FGC is gravitating toward as of late. I would not be surprised, although I'd be increadibly salty, if Central Fiction was a PS4 and Xbone only. Now that's relevant because, despite my chagrin, I'm told the PS4 does one really noteworthy and useful thing, which is that it lets us upload gameplay far easier than we've ever been able to before. With this, the prerequisite of a capture card becomes optional and such a feat would undoubtedly become easier no? Now yes, a lot of combos are generally found and established by the time the games reach ENG shelves, however improvements to routes are still found all the time and I feel like such a thing would be convenient to those without the luxury of know-how or time to research routes. Additionally we could use the input display to show them the pacing of the button presses. This work now could potentially reduce the number of those who have trouble conceptualizing or preforming specific routes or tricks. With this we could showcase even basic things for characters like the input for wolf break, or how to tiger-knee a specific special. Notes could be added to the video showing specific things like "make sure Ada is walking forward at this moment" or this is how "close/far they have to be for this combo to work" and other nuances that combo notes do not easily convey.

Since the only thing we seem to know for sure is that DL is going to still act as an informational hub and archive, some ideas to make it (even more) functionally superior, organized, and accessible to other potential archives could help. I like this a lot too, I'd really like to see it implemented. Reading it also gave me some other inspiration for potential changes to the site in general. First has to do with the proposed video threads. If my understanding is correct, you wish to showcase examples of different types of game-play/situations/etc., rather than shotgunning the average forum goer with hours of raw information without any given label to hint toward the various merits that are presented within. While I think that's a pretty great idea and the videos presented and explained by pro's would be an invaluable asset, I'd also like to keep the huge pools of video material that don't get tagged for something in particular somewhere within the topic. (Be it within a secondary link or a spoiler box or whatever works.) If people were willing to put even more work into it, it'd be cool to give order to those pools of videos as well, by date, edition, location, tourney title, or whatever criteria searched. Kinda like a video library. A poster could even bookmark or favorite videos on the site if possible or attach personal notes that only they could see (like "Show this to Person A" or "They played a great neutral game in this one" or whatever have you.) if those sorts of things wouldn't be too hard to program. If something like that was added I there's a ton of room for it to be even more useful. As pointed out in the tweet, most of the videos are of JP players. Logically there's mostly JP commentary and JP gameplay. This isn't bad per-se but not everyone understands Japanese and understandable commentary is actually super useful. Also, call me crazy, but I've noticed that the way people play the games is super different depending on where they are, and I've seen a lot of merit come from each area I've watched. (For instance, some of the best Terumi play I've seen came out of a tourney in Mexico for whatever reason.) Passed a certain level of play, there should definitely be videos from wherever we can get them. The trouble I suppose is drawing the line at what level of play is permissible to put in there. Another idea which would be a bit of an effort to implement is hyperlinking all of the combo notations in the various combo threads to a small clip of them being preformed. That'd be quite a task unto itself. Now onto the bottom line. There's gonna be a incredible mess of work if even a few recommendations get adopted. In the tweet it was mentioned that Mods (and I assume Admins) have a tedious, frustrating, and often repetitive line of work as it is. If there's going to be some mass changes of any kind to the programming or format of the site and if something like it isn't already in place, it might be beneficial to set up and strongly advertise a volunteer thread to spread out and ease the workload. Posted there in detail, could be tasks that need to be done and generous people could offer to help with them. If enough interest is created to where such a system could be justified the volunteers wouldn't have to be made mod to make changes and help out, but if the problem if the problem becomes "what if we leave them unchecked they do some horrible stuff to our website", one could just make it so a mod or Admin has to preview and sign off on a change apply it. Just brainstorming right now, but let me know what y'all think of all of this. EDIT: While writing this, unbeknownst to me, a whole new page of this thread cropped up. If I said something redundant or incorrect, forgive me, I'll be editing it again momentarily.

@sG: I can see how a purely informational website would appeal to many. No opinions, no news, just data. That's what a load of people come here for, and it'd be easier you and people like you if that were its sole purpose. @ everyone: Speaking purely pragmatically questions now are: What should be DL's purpose be? What needs does it fulfill right now? How many of these needs are better serviced by other tools? But thinking like that kinda irks me. I kinda liked DL as a community sometimes, especially when I first came here, and it'd be sad to see it go just like that. I think, though it would not be an easy feat, it'd be cool if rather than submitting its functions as a community hub to other sites, DL could simply usurp and outclass the utility of those competitors. Just, do what Twitter, Skype, and G-FAQs do for the average DL member, but better if possible. Fuse the community back into one site again as it were. It'd be a lot of work and use a lot of methods we haven't considered yet, but this is a thread about revamping the DL community, not outright killing it lol. I think it may be worth a shot.

Well I suppose not everybody is going to want to come to a community page for information alone. Might as well call DL what it is today, an archive, an info-dump, occasionally a Q&A, but hardly a community. As far as archives go it's unmatched, which is its primary use for people like me. As far as info dumps go, twitter gets it faster. As a Q&A Dustloop has got a pretty impatient, intolerant image associated with it; to the casual observer it's not an ideal place to admit one needs help. Another solution, one that I don't particularly like but can see brewing, would be to tear down the discussion threads altogether and use it to keep information. It'd be easier to moderate and have a clear purpose to boot, and it could leave the redundant functions that cluttered it before to other sites and tools that fulfill those needs without the added burden of keeping the info accessible and clear. People who already use Twitter, Skype Groups, and G-FAQs as an outlet for everything else have pretty much cast their ballot.

There has gotta be a middle ground between verbal toxicity and absolute mess that we can come too. The people here have got to be smart enough to work it out too. Sure it'd be silly to ask for a perfect site, but that's no reason it can't be improved right? Moderating conversation and harassing those who are a step out of line are two very different things, one is an objective that fosters good productive conversation and the other ends it. Creating a comfortable place to post stuff doesn't mean we'll all devolve to baboons, and even if it did there's alternative methods of fostering good discourse. I've seen first hand how groups can talk about BS one second and be serious the next and get along just fine. The duality of wanting community discussion and absolute accuracy can make posting here very confusing. On one hand, unproductive or not strictly factual talk can disguise info or corrupt it, on the other if you want discussion, there must be something to discuss. Facts and questions are merely two avenues of interaction. Things like finding frame data and combo paths only appeal to very few and don't prompt a whole lot of discourse. Following rules that only specify and allow for fact and data limits conversation to those interested only in data, well established enough to call their findings fact, or who have questions about said facts. I believe the Zepp museum was definitely a huge step in the right direction, but perhaps it wasn't a step far enough. I'd support making locked threads that carry vital info, which can edited by the mods when challenged or added to by info given in groups free to discuss stuff. That way the meat of any discussion or "clutter" as some call it can be skipped by those looking for only hard fact and info. If someone wanted to know only things contingent to a specific point posted in the info only topic, the key points of why something is considered one way or another and any criticisms or exceptions against established theory listed in the non Mod page, said posts could be directly quoted or even hyperlinked to the info only threads. Sort of like the news only topics we already have, but more effective because the added posts would be filtered by people who have an intimate understanding of what belongs there. Is a form of discussion that can grow tiring and dull to people if it was interesting at all to them to begin with. Theorizing, developing, discussion, making controversial statements outside of question/answer format is something that should be able to be accommodated officially and otherwise. Being disingenuous shouldn't be permissible in a serious discussion format, but being wrong isn't inherently evil; it just means that the person needs to be corrected somehow. I've heard there used to be threads and groups where this kind of talk belonged too, but it was too hard to moderate or something and that caused their demise somehow. Eventually it was just left to G-FAQs Skype and Twitter to house that judged yet very real part of the community. For many these games are merely entertainment, but the exposure to the other side of DL, the more professional competitive side that is focused on data, productive discourse, and all that good noise could help bring them closer an "ideal competitive poster". Something like "Yeah, I came on here today to blog about Makoot's underboobage or make outdated memes, but I learned about a tourney/casuals near me. Sounds like fun, I'mma check it out." It sounds crazy, but I've had long in depth game-play dialogues with exclusive s***posters and jokers who are, today, very invested in the game and actually contribute to the community. There's also those who have both the desire to joke around and have serious game-play discussions. I'm in disbelief myself, but some, if not many, of the top players in the FGC are s***posters from time to time. (>_>) If it's not too much work, which I have the sneaking suspicion it may be, we could house both sides of the community here. This last part is just a musing though. It's been tested and it's been ditched by this site, and I'm sure there are good, valid reasons for that decision. Still I think there could be some merit to be reaped from it all. The rest is mostly ideals that have no thought out solution or ideas that would probably be only possible through hard work. I want to know what y'all think of this and whatever is decided upon, I'll still be here and I'll do whatever I can to help. I'm also interested in other potential solutions too.

Some really good stuff being said here. '3' Anyone not making use of the "change theme" option at the bottom of every page should really try it. The "Makoto" Theme is pretty easy on the eyes, I changed to it for Halloween and never changed it back; I find the black and orange pages and white letters, makes the whole site easier to surf. I'll continue telling people to come here for info, questions, and discussion, but yeah it's important not to treat new people with hostility, even if they're frustrated. Really frustration is a natural response to not doing well even with effort put forth, and it's a hurdle everyone crosses at some point. The Netplay salt thread is a good place for people dealing with that strain and not quite at the place to ask questions. If their ultimate goal is improvement though that is an opportunity to create a productive poster. Clue them in on your thoughts and ideas, potential solutions to their problems and see if it helps. There's also the kinda clique-ish nature about this place that's gotta be addressed at some point. I feel like it's a topic that's gotta be handled carefully else it could get out of hand, but it does exist and it is gross. Many people I've spoken to see DLs membership as elitist, rude, arrogant, mean-spirited and so on, which could only ever describe a few people at most. (and then possibly not even them.) In reality, most of the people here are awesome, helpful individuals with a genuine passion for their games, which is what will attract people to an online community. Things like popping off may integral to a competitive scene and the culture of FGs sure, but many people, especially the newer or more isolated ones, are probably not well exposed to the idea and will take it as bullying. One can't really read any sort of playful melodramatic or joking demeanor over the web, so it's really easy to misconstrue. And then there's actual bullying... Some good stuff's happening here and I'd rather see the fruits of that before poking that hive of hornets open. If it gets resolved somehow, that'll be great. On the issue of the wikis, a lot of the info, at least for CPE is outdated and could use some TLC. I know I'd be grateful. Back when I first joined DL, which wasn't too long ago I think, the CSE wiki had all sorts of helpful comments, bnbs, accurate frame data, various uses for moves, and even delightful jokes. It's little exaggeration to say that whoever put all of that there made it so much more fun and easy to get into the deeper aspects of my game, and is likely a large part of the reason I'm on DL today. On the topic of the forums, well with the exception of Xrd, a lot of the games just seem to keep adding characters, and the way DL is constructed with the character forums being the discussion central, interactions between members becomes more and more limited. Even looking in the list of names of people on this page ATM, I think I've talked to maybe two or three of you? This site actually has a ton of members who could probably have a lot to discuss and learn from one another, but the opportunities given for them to meet is almost nil because the groups are divided to the precise thing a person is interested about learning down to a specific aspect of a specific character in a specific edition of a specific game. Despite the awful lack of moderation, a lot of people I know go to G-FAQs to mingle with the community just because they can talk to new faces contribute to and learn about new facets of these games without too much worry of criticism. If Possible, DL should try to absorb and improve on what makes Skype Twitter and G-FAQs appealing mediums of communication and completely absorb their membership. Ironically, there is a fear of discussing game-play attributed to this site. Many people ether believe or support the notion that if a player isn't at the top of the hierarchy, they will be invalidated and should be mocked for drafting or proposing new ideas or concepts. Whats left is simply discussing and comparing the snippits of ideas and opinions of those who have established themselves already or speaking only in finite fact. That is not to say people should spread misinformation about characters as if it were fact; integredy of info is something very important to this site and the community, but theories, claims, and misinformation ought to be dis-proven through examples and fact. The issues here should be solved not only by making the thoughts and opinions of those who are at the top more access-able and and subject to question, but by allowing people to interpret, create and develop their theory of game-play safly within a public forum. If it were possible, we should get some Higher level American or JP players in here that'd be pretty amazing, I'd be here every day if I could discuss the finer points of Relius with someone like RYO, Lich, or Mabukapu. I know that there's a language barrier to consider for many of the JP players, but if that could be overcome we could potentially unite the entirety JP and ENG communities with DL. It's something that I'd love to see happen.

There's always the 236C~214C>2C>j.C>j.236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B for those who really don't like doing any type of TKj.236C, but that's much more spacing/timing heavy and is only on N starters lol. Better off getting good with TKj.236C. Off of a short starter and 20% IG the best I could do was 2A>5B>236C~214C>5C(1)>2C>TKj.236C>5C(1)>2C>6C>4D>6A for [3296DMG/+??HT/-2000 IG] And boy oh boy it is spacing and timing specific. If the extra 160 damage and additional heat or two seem worthwhile to ya, go for it, otherwise...

That actually works on everyone since the window for TKj.236C is so loose. I've always done TKj.236C as 7/8/9236C as a result. It's much easier and it also lets you space yourself a little in some necessary situations.

Same Move Proration. You know when you use a certain move twice in a combo and it makes the opponent flash blue? that's SMP. It kills combo damage and makes it so the foe can tech earlier. Although it seems to have changed in CF.

Observations based on first Jin vid: Your Relius is nice. Excellent work thus far. Some tech advice though. -Use that meter. When you don't have Ignis you want to have 50% heat. any N starter>236C>Rapid>665B>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B is roughly 4K for 50% heat, if Ignis is desummoned during the beginning she will return to full by the end. Counter assault can also be used to get a foe off of you which is invaluable. If you lost and were sitting on 100% heat, something went wrong. Near corner 5B>3C>236C~214C>665B>2C> TKj.236C>2C>6C>41236B>5B>5C(2)>4D>6A works for a lot of damage. You want to use ~214C early as possible, (it does 1200 damage, so and as long as they reach the corner before they tech it'll combo into 665B.) Also never use 6B in a combo again except for sideswap stuff. 2C does the same thing but for more damage and with better P2. When confirming midscreen with Ignis a simple 2B>5B>6D>663C>6D>662C>6C>41236B>etc will work from max range, and is one of the better ways to confirm. It should only ever take one 6D into microdash to get into 3C range using this string. Technically the better confirm from max range 2B is 2B>5B>236C+2D>5B>2C, but ether will work. Abuse 5B/665B more. It's a god poke. It locks down and confirms into 2C on any air hit. Good stuff. Finally, listen to Wakky's advice, he's the man!

For the last challenge I did CH6B>j.B>j.C CH5B>5A+B>2C>TKj.236C>5B>2C>lastframe236C>5B>2C>6C>41236B>3C>2363214C>TKj.236C

Relius: - Cannot charge Lugia. It's not even a low now. 6C > Lugia does not connect. - The doll gauge depletes completely after 6 2Ds. 8 6Ds leave a miniscule amount of it. Hitting the enemy 9 times is possible if you decide to cross the line between leaving or breaking the doll. - After mom recovers normally, the regeneration resumes after about 4 seconds. - OD Cars is not any different from the normal one? In OD, 5B 5C Lauger Haas 5B 5C 4D 6A Tedo deals about 3400. - Exceed doesn't seem to be punishable. - 6C into Leis connects on the ground. - 2C 6C Nose connects on airborne opponents. - 10 4Ds and/or j.2Ds leave very little of the gauge. - Though the Lauger ender in the recovery combo went blue because I wasn't used to the new recovery frames, it seems that ending it with the aerial Naiads may recover the gauge completely. - CT > Cars connects! Though it seems impossible to incorporate in a combo. - Because you have to hit the floating opponent with both hits while adjusting the height, it's very difficult to chain 5B in a combo. I couldn't do it no matter how long I tried. Like this, for example: 5B 3C 6D 2C 6C Leis 5B 5C Air combo. Snagged from New's only thread. Thanks to SOWL! Some good bad confusing and ominous changes here. If Ignis recovery really takes 4 seconds to begin things could get hairy (although when they talk about a recovery combo healing her completely that makes me think it takes 4 seconds after a desummon to get her back to full, not for her to start regen.) It seems like they're trying to buff Relius and make Ignis more valuable a commodity, something I'm in full support of (Now only if they could change 214A and 214B back to 1.1 versions we'd be in business) We'll prolly have 5B>5C(2)>6C>41236B>5A/2A/5B>5C>2C>sj>j.B>j.C>j.236C~j.214B as a solo combo now if the Zain change doesn't eclipse the need for it. Things I'm confused about is lugia not charging or being low, it wasn't ether before so why mention it? also the 5B thing at the end. It prolly means our basic Bnb got more difficult? Command grab being a combo tool as well iis awesome! they must have sped unsummon Nose up dramatically for it to combo from 6C O_o We definitely got more Ignis guage, or 6D got cheaper. 6D takes 13% ignis, and 8 uses is 104% of her bar. the fact that she also lives after 10 4Ds or j.xDs makes me belive she just got 5~10% more bar. she still dies after 6 2D's so she definitely does not have 120% or above her meter now. that's what we can say for sure. I'm going to have to redo Ignis values with the new data, ugh. (13/100=X/105 and such. Gonna miss whole numbers.) And believe me CT Casu, if useful, can and will be in my combos. There are also rumors that our 6C and 4D lost SMP. If so lol. Also SMP no longer seems to affect combo time, just damage, a fact which could be REALLY useful in desummon combos.

I'm really interested in the unblockable situation we can create with that grab on oki. if we make 5B hit a frame after the command grab it will peg jump start-up and you'll get the full combo lol

I've been looking at the little thinger at the bottom of the screen that displays the names of people looking at a thread, and occasionally you pop up lol. Yeah Wakky, Dusty, SWD, Nemi, and I started a Relius chat on skype because we're cool like that. It dies or goes off topic every now and then, other times it's a nice place rife with discussion. It's 16 members strong and growing right now, including fan favorites like 916ZKing, Meeso, and Lich. I still want you two for that chat though, it's just not the same without y'all =) Also yeah command grab is super hype. I'd slap the person who made this decision if I weren't playing rel lol.

Relius: The knockback on Id Zain (236C->214C) feels like it brings the opponent closer back to him, so it's easy to use in his midscreen combos. His new move Geara Caus(?) is a command grab for Ignis. While the opponent is grabbed Relius can continue to attack. The activation time of Gira Nose when Ignis is unsummoned has been sped up. Taken from main thread.

I saw ?D>41236C>6B so I imagine 2 heat up combos are still in and also stronger for not having to be linked by 5A.