Myoro

In Relius' case doing anything with SMP is going to telegraph your reset thanks to the blue flash it incurs. So that said, I will only use SMP resets if they get knockdown upon their failure condition. There's ways to use 236C SMP and that will ether land you a reset or pressure no matter which way they decide to tech or guarantees knockdown if they don't tech. SMP236C is also used in vinum glitch #2, which is another thing that, if it works is a great reset and if it doesn't, will get knockdown. Most experienced players I fight will see that blue flash and just not tech, so against them I tend to forgo SMP resets completely and just go for damage and late tech punishes. (I need more late tech punishes come to think of it...)

Myoron XD Ultimately I do agree with what you said here SKD. At the time I held ideas of Pressure and mix-up to be completely different things, thinking Relius pressure was phenomenal, but his mix-ups were pretty standard and the whole dynamic was that he could make up for quality of mix-up with quantity thanks to 6D resetting his pressure. I always thought Relius' offence was good (but not as good as I know it is now after almost a year.) I said that Relius' mix-up was decent at best when I wasn't informed about the extent of what he can do, and ever since I've made it my mission to find out just what the man is capable of by studying the tools available to him. I've since found some amazing stuff that's only getting more amazing come 2.0. (look forward to it guys) I still don't regret bringing it up the first time because I actually learned a lot about Rel gameplay in the resulting anarchy, even when that shut the original thread down. I'm willing to say it was more enriching than the conversations that was happening prior to it. I didn't even know Relius /had/ a fuzzy until I brought that discussion here. But that's all ancient history. Nice posts everyone.

Haku's 6B is similar if you don't counter hit or air hit. I suppose Jin's doesn't knock down though.

I can react to Haku's 6B, but not Jin's 6A. I imagine it's different for everyone.

I play Block low when the opponent block high when the opponent is airborne, react to overheads and empty jumps. That makes me pretty free to command throws tho. On the topic of Jin's 6A, it's 19 frames and reasonably subtle to the point where it can be disguised nearly completely by the Ice sprite. Rel's is 26 frames and has an animation practically screams "HEY ARE YOU BLOCKING HIGH!? I THINK YOU SHOULD CONSIDER IT" and I still hit with it all the time. (I mean it's balanced in that I can combo from mine meterlessly, but the point stands that it's a strong overhead.)

CSE had DLC too, so if ya didn't expect that it's your own fault. >_> Well as of right now it doesn't affect anyone who doesn't want to have the voice actors recently hired as Mai or what'sherface to do their round calls. I'm a grateful member of that category.

Heck with that kinda dash speed she'd have no trouble at neutral.

GGs to everyone I played today. I'm lovin' my new ethernet cord more and more each time.

I disagree. A lot of character's plans have shifted quite a bit. Nu looks to be strictly zoning where before she was hybridized rushdown. With changes in system mechanics the nature of these different playstyles have been affected as well, making some styles more powerful in some areas where previously they weren't. (IE Barrier changes, OD Raid, and changes to the rest of the cast) The core concept of every character still boils down to "hit them until you or they stop moving," that much hasn't changed. Even while drastic nonsensical changes like turning Ragna into a zoner or Platinum into a grappler haven't happened, the way they go about implementing their established gameplan has changed quite a bit and should not be overlooked. (Rachel and Tao have been interesting to watch as a result of this update as well.) Even Relius who's been said to be one of the least changed characters has quite a bit of new stuff brewing, thanks to some exploitable doll system mechanic changes that I've taken note of. I think Kokonoe having more limited access to gravitons, and more combo routes without use of graviton, courtesy of 3C>5A working, changes her from more set-up heavy to less set up heavy and more rushdown and footsies dependent, but of course I can't really tell without adequate research into the matter. (I've never been super knowledgeable of Kokonoe so someone else is better off speaking on that.)

I always thought that was Tao...

How does anyone know how 2.0 Nu does in lag? Game doesn't even have netplay yet. '3' But yeah, I'm still more worried about 2.0 Koko and Carl than I am about Nu. I'm not thrilled about frame-tight zoning pressure that confirms into big-ish damaje anywhere, going hand in hand with drives that cause chip in 2.0, but it's not the worst thing I can see myself being subject to. I'd take a hundred 2.0 Nu 13s to one 1.0 Kokonoe...

I leave this thread for a bit and this all happens. (Not that my presence would have changed anything, it's just this is a lot of feuding parties to take in. I hope it works itself out alright. '~') anyway I'm free for awhile tomorrow, anyone wanna take me apart and build me back twice as good sometime then? I can feel my ambition returning and I wanna do something productive with it.

It's generally a lot of: "Stuff">3C(3)>2B>6A>236CC>TK7j.236BBBBB>6C>5A+B>OD>(22C for 20 hits if it was an S starter or if it was N and the combo has already run on for a bit)>236C>236[C]xN until combo timer runs out>236CxN until OD timer is about to run out>236236D However things like j.2D>rapid>OD>22C>236C>236[C]xN>236CxN>236236D exist It seems this works from any crush trigger air-hit, so it'd be simpler to just mention it as an "OD combo ender." I think. Something like ~>5A+B>OD>(22Cx20hits)>236C>236[C]xN>236CxN>236236D. You can attach a hyperlink that leads to this vid on said note if need be. Any confirm that doesn't use more than one 5A+B, has 3 or more hits before the 5A+B, and doesn't use any rapids should be a 50% heat version if my math checks out. I included that one because it was insane max damage, but I have trouble hand picking from the rest because it's all gimmicky touch of death stuff, so I have a hard time pinpointing which of there are more "applicable"

I have a fun new combo to share. 6B>j.C>j.236C>Rapid>airdash>j.De-summon>j.B>665B>2C>236C>665B>2C>6C>41236B>3C> [3068DMG/-36HT/+full Ignis] ^Really this works from any 6B even with a few hits before it. it's effective range is about where the opponent starts the round if not a little more, but you can have a couple hits before the 6B to get them there so its true reach is a bit longer still. It ends up giving you a full Ignis bar to play with in the corner, 3K+ Damage, and 3C knockdown, so it's well worth the heat IMO. Its damage and heat values of course vary depending on what moves come before the 6B.

Somethin' like that. Thank you Arik. I wonder how the formula's changed in CP2

I do have one OD combo for you that can be seen at the end of this vid: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25609052 6[C]>5A+B>5A+B>Rapid>OD>236C(1)>236[C](1)x15>236C(1)x2>236236D [DMG 11703/Heat -100 (uses 150)/10%Hp] There's a ton of OD combos in this vid that look useful but this is my favorite. The fact that there's 17 SMPs in it and it's the most damage I've seen from Tao is laughable.

They nerfed his chip, which was like the only thing he had besides annoying scarves that can't make up their mind if they wanna be projectiles or not. It's okay though, Amane's a character I never want to see in the higher tiers. >_> I like the guy, but I cringe every time I think of a moveset revolving around chip damage being good, I get these awful flashbacks to U-mars Amane, and then I start violently convulsing and foaming from the mouth. The decision to nerf his chip was prolly linked to the barrier change if you think about it. You know, I never thought to investigate it myself. I really should. I imagine it has something to do with the damage on the moves or their attack levels. I'm betting that chip damage negated factors in somewhere too. I'll do some tests with it some time.

I have approximately 0 knowledge of 2.0 Tao, so I think it could be useful. I wonder just who would post stuff there tho.

CT does like 35~40% right now. and without delay Barrier starts regening it to the point where it's quickly irrelevant. The bigger penalty to chicken blocking will happen when you pressure them with air unblockables on their way up or down, it didn't matter much before but I think it might become a much bigger toll on the barrier now. I'm not saying it'll be a huge thing, but I think Danger could be a bigger factor now and a little more practical to play with if you so choose. CT's will be met with mash or DPs rather than barrier 90% of the time unless you've got them locked somehow. That's just a fact of life. I'd wager that nobody but me is crazy enough to plug away 4 Crush triggers and 80% Ignis for a guard break but me, so really I think they'd just be used for that purpose to get them in danger once their barrier is low enough to be demolished if at all, thanks to the changes we may see the barrier get that low.

I'm used to thinking about gauges in points. Not only HP and Heat, but special gauges too. Ignis' gauge contains 10,000 points and drains at 2 points per frame when she's idle (also Ignis moves cost ether 1000, 1300, 1500, 2000, or 3000 points to use but I digress.) I think of barrier in such a way as well and as all taxes to the barrier (both passive drain and drain caused by taking hits) seem to have increased, I thought it simpler to just say that it didn't contain as many points. Well there's a simple way to settle the recovery thing. We need footage of both normal barrier recovery and danger state barrier recovery from CP1.1 and CP2.0 to compare. Does anyone have any vids that have these?

It's actually one of my favorite changes in CP2.0. It effectively made Crush Triggers more useful outside of combos, made chicken blocking a wee bit more costly. Danger state adds a 1.5 damage modifier, and makes it so you can't stop air unblockables or dash recovery which is super frightening in theory, but it was never really seen because we have so freekin' much barrier and it regens too dang fast. I never barrier much myself (I think I've only been in "danger" once outside of an Amane fight in all my CP experience) so I can't imagine it'll affect me negatively too much... on the other hand I can't wait to torment people with [5A+B>2D] blockstring loops when they get even a little low on barrier. Maybe even Bios>5A+Bx2 if I feel like it. I feel evil brewing. It looks to me like theree's less points of barrier stored in the gauge in general. Quicker drain and more consumption all around. Additionally I believe Danger lasts longer and barrier regens slower but I'm unsure.

I think there's less points of barrier in general. I noted this when CP2 first came out. IIRC Danger lasts longer too.

I guess I'm a little late, but I have to agree, Rel's 5B is freekin' amazing! When used in tandem with Ignis' 6D I don't think Rag's can even compare. it turns any hit into 3.2~4K midscreen and any block into great pressure, while being safer on whiff and covering just about as much space at the same speed.

I liked the addition of OD over gold bursts. As a reversal mechanic it's better because I prefer OD's of the time stopping qualities and buffs that help each character's game in favor of a flat bonus proration addage or a tricky/gimmicky/costly reversal into a combo or + frames. Also the fact that OD costs less burst gauge than a green burst is a great incentive that it holds over gold bursts (Probably to replace the negative that was losing half your guard primers.) I still think there's room for OD to be improved through balancing tweaks and further differentiation from character to character. Most notably I'd like to see OD have more uses in neutral and oki, I've seen it work wonders in combos and such, but right now for many characters I don't feel like it's worth using outside of a combo unless you're in danger of a time-out loss, and so it's not seen much outside of combos. Well that's been my honest thoughts on OD.

GGs my room while that lasted.