Manta

Spam 3CC combos. It's cheap, it's stupid, but until they develop an adaptive beat-em-up AI that's the way it will always be.

The advice here is more about Lamda's 6C 236B being switched with 236A for a reset throw which you should be prepared for. It's one of the more noticeable throw mixups, but it is quick.

That doesn't seem to make sense, the frame data suggests that holding out a 720 will beat an astral attempt.

Yeah, it was me who said it, but that was before the wonders of frame data.

Actually, the frame data says Act parser B is 0 on block and C is only -4. But a move that telegraphed is easily instablocked or 360'd, which is where its vulnerability really lies.

Gadget finger can be done on most characters after 360A unmagnetised. But a lot of it requires a short step (and I mean short) with some easier than others. There was a write up somewhere about it on this forum. Here it is:

This is power creep. Whilst I'm not arguing that everyone should have rachel's damage (And thus 50% of all rounds won on timeouts) it's generally easier to nerf the few moves that make a character strong than it is to buff up a weak character without overdoing it. again, Rachel is the exception here. Not sure what they were thinking when they used a nerfbat that big.

Heavenleeeeee.... Putumkin.....! BUSTA!!! Oh yeah, that was satisfying.

To add in a discovery on the Tager matchup thread: Tager's 6A after gadget finger will NOT beat the DP. 6A's projectile guard point starts on frame 17, 623A/B/C/D all have a startup of 10 (+3 from Gadget finger's frame advantage) so you should be able to do it in time with 4 frames of opportunity. Of course, Sledgehammer has projectile guard on frame one. So getting A-sledged after trying A DP is just going to hurt.

You can Gadget finger someone who is falling from being dropped by gadget finger. Only once though.

Well that's probably intentional, otherwise a game winning strategy would be to just GF loop them until they time out or do something where you can just combo them anyway... back into GF loop.

How does one trade hits with a throw move?

Are you also implying that IBing Tager's 2D into a combo would give you better damage than using one of Hakumen's drives instead?

Basically, you need to play against better opponents. And also learn the optimum combo you can do from any move.

I didn't realise you could 22D after a 22D RC. This gives me an idae for some tager trollin' 22D RC 22D RC 22D 5A

Short answer: Yes Long answer: Go to the relevant subforum.

You remind me of myself when I started posting here. I got chewed up a fair deal as well, since this is a board for elitists, I learned a lot throguh simply not posting since most people here have shared their expertise in various ways already (matchvids, FAQs, Combo listings and just answering other people's questions). Maybe you're still fighting the AI, where Tager is clearly the most threatening AI opponent (Since they can't combo for shit but have 1 frame reactions, makes Tager's front-loaded damage come out on top).

So give your own opinion, what would raise Tager out of the doldrums without interfering with his own archetype?

Quite apart from a lot of consensus here, I don't think it's extra damage that will truly fix Tager's poor standing. All that really accomplishes is pushing him up the tier list a bit, whilst still having the same problems against the same characters as he does now. He needs a new move or two, gadget finger and 4D were big steps in the right direction. If he had a new anti air move (6D?) against people crossing him up and possibly something resembling a decent aerial moveset (he has a few useful moves, but very little combo potential or self defense up there) then it'd cover his weaknesses against characters who routinely exploit them. Not sure what to do about Litchi and Hakumen poking him to death though. And here was me expecting a discussion on how µ-12 fits into the chart.

Glitch in carl's astral input, it appears above the box listing the supers and astral inputs and not where it should be.

Not quite. For combos that don't cancel it's (Untechable time) - (Remaining active frames) - (Recovery) - (Startup on next move) = Window of opporunity to combo. For moves that do cancel, remove the middle two terms. Remaining active frames refer to the fact that a move has useless active frames after the move has hit (unless it's a multi-hitting attack, which hakumen doesn't have many of).

You might want to scrub what I said about 6A beating her DP, having read it up 6A only gets projectile defense on frame 17 of the move, which is quite late compared with the speed DPs come out. A and B sledge both have frame 1 projectile guard points, so they're a much safer option.

Yeah, it's not like you need to add the 3C, 5B to maximise combo damage or anything.

It's be nice to know if you can find out any hit confirm aborts. by which I mean you're trying to do something like: 2B, 2C, 623C.... but notice the first hit is blocked so you go: 2B, 2C, 4D instead Anything else along those lines.

General agreement here, Tager ALWAYS seems like he has the upper hand when you go against him with a character that is new (to you or the game), even if the tager player isn't that good. It's just his Grappler style has always been good at crushing people who aren't aware of his traps but getting owned by those who do.