Nuclear Cheese

So guys, remember when I said the CT WanWan crew was gonna make a combo vid? Well, it turns out the CT WanWan crew is just me and Tales (and neither of us actually live in CT!), and Tales's computer shit the shit. However, fear not, for a video was still made! I present to you ... SOME WAN WAN :kitty:YEAH! All combos by me except for the Sabe combo, which was by Tales. Also, Youtube fucked up the title slide for some reason - it should say "SOME WAN WAN" but instead just throws some stupid blockiness over the previous slide. Stupid youtube. For combo notations, see the link in the video description.

Okay, since it seems practically nobody is gonna be there this week ( ), I'm not gonna make the drive down this time. Tales told me he has work, and Lazy said he might be there, but is unsure (also because of work). I'll be seeing you people there (those of you who actually come, anyways) next week, barring anything stupid happening.

I'm not sure if the "advanced input" thing works for everything - I just found it when doing the 5Ps during my testing, meaning it does work when coming out of guardstun and when finishing up the recovery on a move, at least. And +4 is pretty beast, but keep in mind Orphe's fastest attack is 7F startup (2P), and throws are instant. Opponent might backdash too, or reversal if they have it.

I'd say just the opposite - you should play more so you can get a feel of how matchups play out and learn how to deal with shit. (memo to self - follow own advice) I'll see if I can motivate myself to look into it later today. If not, probably tomorrow. I'm a really lazy person, if you haven't figured it out already. EDIT: Laziness averted, answer found. See below. I just took a quick look on the system info page on the .jp wiki, and I don't see any info on it there either. Pulling up the HTML manual for the game, though, gives a bit of info. Recovering with the HS button is different, and apparently has no invulnerability, but it seems that you can act much quicker (I'm not doing too well with translating this at the moment ). On an unrelated note, in case anyone cares: 6H is called "Just Break". From looking at the frame data - recovery is the number of frames from when the guard point is no longer active until the time the attack hits. EDIT: Found the requested frame advantage info for Orphe's 214S~K. Methodology: 1) With an Orphe mirror, find the quickest you can cancel 214S~K 2) Have attacker do 5P as soon as possible, count number of frames to 5P connecting (found via timing when opponent tries to guard 5P) since hitting K to cancel 214S 3) Repeat 2 with defender doing 5P instead The result is that Orphe's 214S~K, cancelled at the earlier possible frame, is +4 on guard. Bonus fact: The soonest you can use K to cancel 214S is 11F. I also found that WW has a rather generous buffer time for inputting moves before you can actually do them. For instance, if you hit 5P a few frames before you leave guardstun, it'll do 5P the first frame you can. Not sure how big of a window it is, but is surely should make inputs a lot easier.

What kind of problems are you having with the controls? If you're trying to set up a controller, just about any controller that Windows recognizes should work as long as the directional input maps to the analog stick. You can configure the joystick controls by doing the following: 1) Connect the controller(s) 2) Open the game 3) Go the the Options -> Joystick menu item 4) Click the button for each control, then hit the button on your controller to use for that input. The top half is player 1, the bottom half is player 2. The 6 main buttons are A, B, C, D, E, F (which map to P, K, S, HS, O, and SPC in WanWan), and the last one off to the side is the pause button. Note that, for controllers, it automatically maps the analog input to movement (meaning you can't remap that part - this is why I said it needs to map directions to analog). Also note that, if you have multiple controllers plugged in, the game engine arbitrarily assigns certain controllers to player 1 and player 2. If the controller you want to use isn't registering with the control configuration, try unplugging other controllers you have plugged in, restart the game, and try to configure it again. As far as button layout, I can't speak for everybody, but I generally set up my buttons like this: [K] [HS] [P] [O] [sPC] On another note, I play Lynia (although I'd sooner declare Lunathia as my main, if I had to only pick one ). I'm not that great at teaching people how to do things, though. Probably the best resources are the poverty wiki (Lynia's page here) and the poverty IRC channel (Greats is usually around there). To be honest, I would recommend against using Joy2Key/Xpadder/etc if you can avoid it, since those programs tend to introduce input lag. You might be forced into it if your controller doesn't register directionals as an analog input, though. Also, Greats - looking good with the Orphe page. I'm not sure if hitbox images for every single attack is necessary or not, though ... Also, I fixed the input on the guardpoint super - you had it a 414O.

Fuck this, I disagree. ... mainly because Furok schedules his shit such that I can never be there. Jerk. People need to come to BG more often! It's a good time! And we go to Denny's! What's there not to like?

I'll get going on that. I'll probably just copy the data over from the .jp wiki, since that's a lot easier. EDIT: Orphe's frame data is up there, copied from the .jp wiki. 6P is still bullshit. Far as I can tell, replay data is 100FPS. I counted the # of frames (literally, input frames in the replay file) from hitting the button to the last moment back could be held and still guard the move, so the 22F is 22 frames of input data in the replay - that is, by my understanding, it is 22F at 100FPS.

Hey guys, just did some testing using my replay editing technique ... First off, I tested Orphe's 6P - it comes in at exactly 22F startup using the replay. This is consistent with the frame data from the .jp wiki, but I find it a bit odd - the move itself doesn't seem to be that fast. And, far as I can tell, the replay data is at 100FPS so Also, I figured out the timings for all of Lynia's Rush Splashes - the data is on the wiki. If there's other pieces of data you guys want me to look into using this, let me know (although, do understand that I have about a billion and a half things to do, so I might not get to it immediately ).

GGs to all last night. I must say, the AH2 port is even worse than I though it was. Like I said on the stream, I, as a programmer, am personally offended at how BAD it is. Was still fun to try out some of the new characters, though - thinking I'm gonna add Akane/Sound and Petra/dontfuckingknowwhatyet to my list of characters for AH3.

Xtra_Zero - wish I could help you out, but I tend to be really bad at giving advice. I'm sure Greats can give some good advice - he usually responds in this thread, and he's also on the poverty IRC channel regularly. It also helps that he plays Neva, so he'll know what you're dealing with. About the only advice I can give is that you generally want to avoid being in the air, due to all of Neva's air unblockable attacks. Found some new stuff by tinkering around today. Cracked open Lunaport's replay format, so I can now script up replays using a hex editor. I was just thinking - this could be used to get exact frame data. Script an attack, then have the opponent start guarding X frames later - if they guard it, X <= startup, if not X > startup. It'd be a stupid slow and tedious process, but it'd be more accurate that what the .jp wiki has (based on my translation of how they determined it). We could also use a similar method for testing hitstun/guardstun/untechable times. Using this it seems that (for Lunathia, at least) jump startup is actually 2F. Hitting jump, then an attack one or two frames later resulted in no attack; third frame later gives an attack. It's quick enough that I'd suspect everyone has the same, but it might be worth looking at further. EDIT: Forgot to mention this before. I don't know if it's known already (I haven't seen any mention of it before), but when watching replays, you can change the playback speed: Press Q to make it playback really fast (it usually goes at around 6x speed for me) Press E to make it go in slow-motion (it goes to about 25% speed) Press W to return to normal speed.

Are they 60FPS values? I assumed they were 100FPS since that's what the game runs at. Maybe I'll try some things out later and see how it all lines up. EDIT: Just played around with it a bit, and it doesn't feel 13F fast in-game, so you may be right. However, at the bottom of Duna's frame data page, it says something to the effect of: "Data was gathered by taking screenshots at 50FPS, then averaging the values up to 100FPS". So yeah ...

Actually, 1F jump startup may be true ... I think I might have had my program set to 20ms frames instead of 10ms frames. It's still quicker than most games (GG, for instance, has it around 4-7F depending on character). And Orphe's 6P ... god damn that move is ridiculous. I still can't get past the fact that it has 22F startup (out of 100FPS - equivalent to 13.2F in a 60FPS game). Pretty crazy fast for an overhead that leads to combos easily. Never said reversal jump-outs were a good idea. Just stating an observation about the frame data. Hell, I don't mind copying over all the data and notes, as long as you guys are willing to excuse the fact that I tend to be a somewhat lazy dumbass and can't guarantee I'll have it done immediately. I would put up info for Lunathia, but (as people who play me regularly in fighting games may know) I tend to make shit up on the fly more than anything else, so the Lunathia strategy section already has pretty much all I know ("do stuff." ). (on a related note, I still haven't played around with O-cancelling like you've said I should. >__> ) EDIT - Copied Lynia's frame data to the wiki.

Yeah, I know it runs at 100fps (why? seriously, why??). The program I wrote has a variable "frame interval" (duration of a "frame" - inverse of framerate), so I just set it accordingly. Random fun trivia: Jumps seem to have no startup. Hitting 7/8/9, then an attack the very next frame results in an air attack. (Save for when my program's framerate and the game's framerate don't quite keep up with each other ) Lobby? Are you using LunaportMT? Fairly certain nobody uses that version. I figured it out, but it's much more of a pain than it's worth, compared to regular Lunaport (I believe it's linked on the Vanguard Princess page on the Poverty wiki). Failing all else, you can just pop on the poverty IRC channel and ask for help.

Way to ruin the surprise, jackass. To note, it's incredibly impractical and bullshit difficult to do consistently, so I don't think it's anything game-breaking or such. The only way I even confirmed it was actually an infinite was by writing a program to send the inputs to the program, such that it could keep the consistent timing needed to get it to work. (I'm thinking of making this program available to others once I clean it up and make it suck less ... right now it's a UI nightmare.) For the time being, I'm keeping this combo to myself, but I'll be showing it off in the (hopefully) near future. PS - for those who are interested, I turned on debug mode to see the damage. Looks like every hit does 1 point of damage minimum, no matter how bad the scaling gets. I calculated it out, and the infinite I found will kill Ryuza in somewhere around 450 hits (I forget the exact number). Unfortunately, I have yet to get a recording of it actually getting that far, since my input scripting program doesn't stay quite in-sync with the game, and eventually a frame hiccups one way or the other and the combo drops. Maybe I'll go look for the Lunaport source code and see if how they do it would work better.

Any time, LPT. Any time. In turn, shoutouts to Fraga (and his folks) for letting us stay there. GGs to everyone, as usual. Glad to see Nazgul and Vyers actually making it somewhere (dammit guys come to fight nights sometimes!). Mindgame - dammit, now I have to put effort into beating you in MB too? Fuck. Also, don't spend all of that $3 in one place. You're a poor college student, you need to be frugal. Zero - come to BG more often. It was fun playing you in MB.

Seconded. Star Ocean took FOR-FUCKING-EVER. At least it was interesting, though. Tales - I wouldn't put Inuyasha as "godlike". Fun, yes. But "godlike" would imply that it's at the level of games like Guilty Gear or Melty Blood, which is something a half-serious, better-than-it-should-be-probably-by-accident fighting game simply cannot achieve.

If I remember correctly, it can factor in. Response time is how long it takes the pixels on an LCD to actually get the right color, so a slow response time can make for a laggier display ... The big issue with HDTV lag, though, tends to be more about the fact that HDTVs try to make images scale up real pretty and such, and waste (relatively speaking) shit-tons of time applying some mystical filters that, in reality, do jack shit to make the image any better. Correction: You need to stop being 1.5+ hours from everything else. ... or you just need to be like me and not care.

A late GG to all I played last Friday. I do apologize if I was bitching a lot (more than usual ), but Litchi and Ciel are both royal pains in the ass to fight against, so I was a bit frustrated by the end. Also, just confirmed I will not be able to be there this coming Friday (3 Sep 2010), due to family commitments. I'll be returning the next week.

GGs to all last night. Pancho - fuck your Hazama. Stop making me actually have to put effort into playing this game! Again, thanks to all who tried out Wonderful World. Glad to see people open to giving it a go, even though it's still in development. Also, I heard last night that Furok normally hosts casuals on Wednesdays. This is completely impossible for me to attend, due to my job and the fact that Furok is two hours away. You should find a way to make it down to a Fight Night. We could upgrade the lunch match to a meal-at-Denny's match.

Uh oh, shit's getting real. When are Furok's casual meetups, anyways? Hopefully not sometime when I have work or something like that (full-time employment has many advantages - free time is not one of them).

Ah, we were wondering what sort of alien abduction kept you from BG. Oh well. GGs to Lazy and Why, who put up with about 6 hours of nonstop Inferno Divider Disco Fever Primetime Rave Party.

Alright guys, GGs to the six people who were at BG this week. Many lulz to be had with Bushido Blade. Who's gonna be this coming week? I'm guessing not many again, due to Summer Jam, which I'm not going to attend (unless something drastic changes, like work deciding to give me Friday and Monday off for free*). Even if it's just a few people I'll probably try and be there, but I don't want to get down there to find the place empty. * (not gonna happen )

I still maintain that column 4 (which is currently listed as "blockstun") is actually recovery frames. First off, we have guardstun in a separate table. Second off, there's difference values for frame advantage against standing and air opponents. Finally, here's some math: startup + active + recovery = total frames --> recovery = total frames - startup - active advantage = blockstun - recovery - active* With column 4 as blockstun, these calculations don't line up for much of the data. For instance, Cielo's 5S: Column 2 (startup): 22 Column 3 (active): 5 Column 4 (???): 40 Column 5 (total frames): 67 Column 7 (advantage standing/crouching): -10 If we take column 4 as blockstun: recovery = total frames - startup - active recovery = 67 - 22 - 5 recovery = 40 advantage = blockstun - active - recovery advantage = 40 - 5 - 40 advantage = -5 <-- contradicts with value in column 7 * maybe actually (active - 1); this assumes we hit on the first active frame

Very carefully. Seriously, though, I have no idea why you're having trouble. I got it no problem. Only thing I noticed is that it seems (to me, at least) a bit finicky if you're inputting 1 or 3 instead of 2, so you might try ensuring that you hit straight down and see if that helps. Also, like I said in IRC, GGs to Greats for the netplay. I apparently need to learn to do more than spam Hell's Rain when facing someone who can actually rush me down ... who knew?

Hey guys, just updated the wiki with translations of most of the move names. Also, based on what happened at Battlegrounds last light, a few things we've concluded: Sasari vs Cielo is in Sasari's favor, though probably not as bad as Lunathia vs Cielo. Sasari needs to play safe keepaway, but it seems Cielo can't get in without Sasari screwing something up. Hell's Rain should be nerfed, esp. in the air and at long range. I was thinking mainly increasing recovery and/or limiting it to once per jump, but keep it's startup as-is in the air, so it can still be used as an ender. Tales has shitty execution. He couldn't get Cielo to superjump; I just tried it out and got it consistently with no effort.