tataki

I'm trying to focus the direction of the discussion here: Imagine there are 100 people in a room. 85 of them worship gootecks and only care for SF4. The other 15 saw some GG footage once and it thought looked cool. Focusing on the 85 may be tempting because 85 is a lot of people but it also may be futile. I say you find those other 15 people who were open minded enough to begin with, and see what you can do with them.

Actually I thought of the phrase in a different language and forgot that in English it's about a horse rather than a donkey. I'll fix it, but it won't change the fact that you see what you want to see in the text. If you want to get insulted, you'll get insulted and there's really nothing I can do about it without neutering the message so much that it doesn't convey any strong points anymore. "like those gents aren't really members of the FGC" Umm ok? I don't see myself as a member of the "FGC" so what's your point? When I use the term FGC it's to describe all the current phenomena that wasn't there before the 09' blowup. Streammonsters, celeb fanboys etc.

If you show them the way, my answer is "not all, but some" and if I can help those "some" get to my level then mission accomplished. But did you read the stuff I wrote after the pic? I thought my point was pretty clear. I really don't think so. What makes people play a game is interest in the game, not in a celeb. Like you said, you know many people who follow mahvel drama but won't touch the game.

Yes and I don't think anyone has pulled it off effectively before. DL may have all the "raw" data, but while a veteran can use this raw data to improve easily, it doesn't solve the problem of a new player not understanding the game on a fundamental level. That's the problem- People in general only grasp the easy concepts like execution but are having a hard time grasping "footsies" and other parts of the tactical aspect. And if you only grasp FGs as combo execution tests it may not be interesting enough to pick up the game and play. In that regard I think most airdashers provide an easier ground to understanding the tactical aspects compared to Marvel, in the same way that SF2 is a better 2DFG fundamentals learning tool than SF3. When you learn 3S you learn to master unique concepts that apply ONLY in 3S, and not in most of the genre. Marvel is similar. You have to already be at a certain level as a player to make that mental switch between the unique game and the rest of the games.

No. I'd rather have a discussion with people who are in a similar situation and and agree with me that there's a problem to solve. "other fighting game sites will not cover GG/BB information" http://shoryuken.com/?s=guilty+bits&x=20&y=23 http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-1450897751663577%3A52uugn-8vhu&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=guilty+bits&sa=Search&siteurl=iplaywinner.com%2F&ref=&ss=4739j1878413j19#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=guilty%20bits&gsc.page=1 Websites are just the pipes. It's our job to put make water flow in them. But once we get the game, the ball is in our field. what about him?

I don't know? Your response is vague to me and I have no idea what you are trying to say.

First you say people "prefer the SF play style", but then you say people actually have no fucking clue how to even digest airdashers. Which is it then? If it's the 2nd then you are agreeing with what I said?

I'm not talking about people who just bought the game at gamestop and it makes them feel good day 1, but about people who were exposed to high level FG play in some form. I disagree. Raw data of frames and effects is the most boring shit ever on its own. What's interesting for the player is the REASON that makes him go find out that a move is -2 and what to do with that information. To explore a specific situation in a match and learn how to deal with it better, that's the engaging part. If the player already knows how to understand frame data, he probably already knows about his game's forum where he can get that frame data anyway...

How the hell are you getting an elitist vibe from my post? I'm talking about elevating the people to the level where they can make their own informed decisions, and then let them make their own informed decisions, while in the current state of the scene the main tendency is to keep them uninformed because life's easier that way. I never said to keep people out of the "club". On the contrary- Open the doors widely and let people see what's inside. You want an example of an exclusive club? "You can't beat people like Celeb Player X so don't even bother. Here, for Y amount of dollars you can watch him play in HD and have exclusive chat icons! Ain't that HYPE or what?!" Sure, no one says something like this straight out of course, but I feel like that's the general approach the western FG scene is taking at the moment, just because it's less of a headache for everyone involved. So please, don't talk to me about elitism and exclusive clubs when that's exactly the problem I'm presenting in this thread. Edit: Did you see Arturo's shirt? It basically says it all. I feel like that's currently the first priority of the scene and I think it's bad for our goals.

Important edit: Half a year ago, I wrote this thread during a very emotional, impuslive state of mind. If my sencere concerns sound like a negative dismissal of other people, then I apologize as it was not my intenention at all. I'm a very passionate person and I tend to act as such, which is also my source of motivation to help improve the scene of fighting games. I took some time away to think about this issue and what can I do in practical terms, i.e. a positive approach instead of a negative one. I pondered and worked at it for months and you can now see the end result in my new series, Airdash Academy. My apologies again if I've hurt anyone. The problem isn't that some games are more popular than others, but that people like fighting games for all the wrong reasons. ("Wrong" in the way I see it) Take MVC3 for example: For what it's worth, some people are capable of appreciating the high level nuances of the game. e.g. Timing of assist calling and predicting it, vector control, team dynamics, long term decision making in a match etc. etc. People like Viscant and Devil Jin 01 are prime examples of this. But the vast majority of people who "love mahvel" don't understand any of that stuff. Their understanding of the game is shallow, which means that their relationship with the game is shallow. In fact, their relationship with the game is so lacking that a lot of them would rather watch it than play it. When talking about videogames, in my opinion, as a player, that's an equivalent of a failure. So what would happen if people would be able to see what Viscant sees in the game? Some will like MVC3 even more, and will play it more, and some will discover that a different game caters better to their taste and start playing that. Everybody wins. I strongly believe that most of the people in the "FGC" don't even have a "taste" because they don't have the understanding to grasp that much more beyond "oh, he does a combo". Now, if you are sponsored by EG or some shit, you really couldn't care less if your big ass "community" doesn't understand the game or even plays it, as long as they post emoticons in a stream chat and throw money at the screen. But 99.9% of the FG players don't get paid to play and aren't here to get paid to begin with. We have a clear interest that the community not only grows in raw numbers, but more importantly in quality. You know the proverb "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" but in our case the horse doesn't even know what thirst is. I really do think that most of the "FGC" have never experienced enjoyment from a fighting game at the same level as we do. That was partly the inspiration for me to work oh so many hours to create Guilty Bits, but I feel like the work is far from over, as long as I'm still not able to make people see what I see and appreciate the genre/game at the level that I appreciate it. (And BTW, my knowledge of the game probably multiplied by 5 in the process of making the series, so in the course of a few months I could actually feel the increase in enjoyment in both playing and watching high level play of the game, so all my claims of knowledge=enjoyment are from actual experience.)

Not at all. Speaking of the +R wiki, I changed Slayer's bite command to 236H since, well, that's how you do it in +R...

Thanks

Episode 13 up.

These are good starting points but will you be able to write something a bit more comprehensive? Also consider that I never bothered to be familiar with their movelists because they were always console exclusives in the past.

No. The formula is that you tell me EVERYTHING there is to know about the +R version of a character, and once I feel like I really understand the character I sit and write the script.

Problems left: Baiken Dizzy Kliff Justice Seriously, can Justice and Kliff really be done at this point? Are there people who know enough about them just from +R vids alone?

I fail to see how technical stuff in GG are different from technical stuff in BB. Both games have their easy shit and their hard shit.

Try both and stick with what you like more. They are very different in design philosophy so many people prefer one over the other.

who?

Nehle hasn't posted in like a month. *sigh* Where are the Dizzy players when you need them?

Wow, only Baiken and Dizzy left from the old cast. Welp?

Which characters do they play? Edit: Oh, DI and TE.

This is the current situation: A.B.A Baiken Dizzy May I need help with these 4 ASAP. If you know players who can help please refer me to them. Testament has changed way too much from AC to +R. Same for Kliff and Justice who count as new characters. I hoped +R would come out before I'll have to deal with those 3 but since it was delayed I'm thinking what to do about them.

Zappa up.

I-No up.