Orrax

There are reasons why the exact same combo would do different damage, but none of them have to do with height. I may be missing some, but the three reasons I can think of are: 1. Different characters. Not all characters take damage at the same rates. 2. Different guard gauge values. The higher the guard gauge, the more damage a combo will do. 3. Different life values. As a character's life decreases, so does the damage they take. My guess is that it's likely one of those three, but I may be missing something. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with height, though.

It's pretty useless, unfortunately. I don't think I've ever landed a CH airthrow in an actual match. I'm not sure I've ever even seen a CH airthrow landed in an actual match. More useful: deep corner airthrows on Faust (and maybe others, haven't checked) can lead to sidewinder. Combo is airthrow, land, 5S©, jc, j.D, CL SW, etc.

A good use? Not really. It has some limited payoff for random use against some characters in footsie games since it's hard to anticipate so long as you're not too close. It seems to work fairly well against Slayer for some reason. Getting CH'd out of it is a definite risk, though. It's also ok to throw out after 2S, or after 5S->2S (whiff), and you can combo it after BB in the corner or after a very low j.D (which also works at mid-screen), but the forced prorate cuts down on the usefulness in combos pretty significantly. It really just suffers from a lack of reliable set ups. =/ Hahaha! I think I might sig this. It's not actually anything--just a dumb name I made up years ago that stuck. I have gotten some interesting reactions to it, though, everything from "it sounds like a pill" to "it sounds like the name of an ancient Viking god." Personally, I like the Viking god reference better. =P It does sound pretty similar to Lorax, though, and I certainly liked Dr. Seuss when I was younger. Maybe it has some Freudian significance? *shrug*

Unfortunately, 6H doesn't combo to BB on normal hit unless someone fails to get out of the stagger in time. On air CH it works, but those can be tough to get. On the other hand, 6H does combo to GV (doing it off the first hit is best, but it's harder to hit-confirm), so you can just leave off the BB and it should work so long as you're not too far away. Landing 6H is iffy at best, though, except to punish certain moves.

It depends partly on character and height. Generally, j.D is used against Pot or when dashing, j.H is used on characters who are a bit higher in the air, and j.S is used when your opponent is lower. Hence, you'll probably be using j.H more often on lighter, floatier characters. Mostly, though, it's just about getting a feel for when and how you can continue the combo and when you should end it, which is something that really comes with experience. Sol's zoning options are pretty limited. GF FRC is good, and he's got plenty of good anti-airs (5K, 2H, j.P). I guess 5S and 5H can be used as zoning tools, and 2S can sort of zone against short-range characters like Jam. Sol's not really a zoning character, though. As for oki, Sol's got plenty of options. Meaty GF is good, super-safe j.S and j.H are even better, and the high/low airdash mixup is pretty much a staple. Even wild throw or the throw invulnerability on Fafnir can be useful at times.

It's always been a solid mid-range poke, iirc. Not hit-box wise, but it's fast for its range, and canceling it into 2S is good. The main problem is just that Sol gets basically nothing off of it. I use it mostly for pestering people, honestly.

Not sure just how much time I'll have, but sign me up anyway. Oh, and I played Sol.

I actually already played Morrigan. Sorry for not uploading the replays earlier. I lost 0-2. Lag killed me the second match, but the first was fine. I think someone was spectating the match. On that note, it might be wise to turn off "allow intrusion" at least for tournament matches. Orrax (SO) X | Morrigan (RO) O Orrax (SO) X | Morrigan (RO) O

Orrax vs Sobe; Sobe wins.

Sounds good, Teyah. Count me in. Also, if people have low ping with each other, can they do delay 2 (or even 3) if they both agree?

So, it usually goes black beat between the 2H and the j.S? If so, you're just not doing the j.S fast enough. Also, getting VV instead of SW has been a problem for a lot of people since the game came out. IIRC, the game reads 9236 and 6236 as dragon punches, so if you're holding a forward jump for too long, it reads that you did a dragon punch instead of a quarter circle. The solution is to simply let go of jump as soon as you input it; do not hold it at all. As long as you do that, it should work, but it may take a little getting used to.

Not sure what to say other than the timing is pretty tight, so it'll take a while to get down. You basically just have to time it so that the dash comes out right after the j.D ends. If you're a little too early, the dash won't come out, and if you're a little late, it will come out too low or, if you're already low to the ground, not at all. But you're probably already aware of all that. Super jumping tends to make it a little easier, though.

Generally speaking as someone who sometimes plays Baiken, I'm usually not too worried about people jumping out of my counters, since p counter can still land if the jump isn't spaced right (especially on a large target like Pot) and Baiken has pretty solid AA. It seems to work for some people, though, so if it works for you, I guess keep doing it. Usually what works best against me (or for me when I play against Baiken) are quick recovering moves that can be used to bait counters, and then punish on block or whiff. I'm not sure what Pot's best moves are for doing this, but I'd guess 5P or any air move that recovers instantly on landing done very low to the ground. However, these are not failsafe, as pretty much any move is still vulnerable to buffered counters no matter how quickly it recovers, but those are very hard to do consistently. I'm much more afraid of that and throws than people jumping. =P And reacting to counters is pretty hard: p counter comes out in 12 frames and FB counter in 11, so those two are pretty much unreactable. S counter comes out in 17 and H counter in 19, so they can be hard to as well, and Pot has a 6F jump startup, so you pretty much have to 1F jump if you want to react to them. Actually, this is incorrect. Fuujin has no throw invulnerability. His 3S does, though.

WT iad j.S CLSW is great, but I find I tend to drop it a lot in matches as there are a lot of places to make mistakes. It's amazing if you can pull it off consistently, though. You can actually get 5 sidewinders and a knockdown on middleweights off it. The combo I know is: (opponent is in the corner) WT, iad j.S, CLSW, jump, wait, CLSW, j.S, CLSW, j.S, CLSW, (should be in the opposite corner by now), nj.S, CLSW, BR = 185 on Sol (or 194 if you start with iad j.D). It'll probably work when not wild throwing out of the corner as well, but I haven't messed with it enough to know the nuances. I don't think it will work when wild throwing into the corner, though. Also, be careful about the BR at the end; if you catch them too high they can tech. As for blockstrings, I find that I've been consistently using less and less. Maybe I'm just using the wrong block strings or something. I usually just do what I need to do to hit my opponent with 2P or whatever so I can enforce mixups, and Sol doesn't really need much guard gauge build up to do solid damage. The best blockstrings in my experience are ones that leave you close and with frame advantage (2K 2S) or ones that give enough blockstun to make GF FRC hard to avoid (2K 2H). You can also often get away with stuff like 2P, 2K, GF FRC since most people expect GF after moves like 2H and 2D, and the FRC point comes out before most people can react (frames 14 and 15). Also, I don't really agree that Sol's oki options are lacking. There's GF FRC, super safe j.S and j.H, airdash mixups, Fafnir, WT...lots of fun stuff to do.

I would like to apologize in advance for the long post and the inordinate amount of theory fighter contained within. Correct me if I'm wrong, Raijin, but you seem to be saying that anyone can counter mix ups if they see them coming, but I'm not sure it's actually that simple. It seems to me that gimmicks are pretty much always countable if you see them coming, while genuine mix ups aren't. You're right to say that all mix ups have a counter, but good mix ups have no safe, highly reliable counter, whereas gimmicks do. As an example, I'll look at the setup in the video where Sol lands a 5H at some distance in the corner, and consider BR FRC vs GF FRC, and assume that in both cases the opponent anticipates the mix up coming. First, I'll look at GF FRC. The 5H will force the opponent to block long enough so that the GF FRC will come out. The opponent can't poke or backdash safely here on account of a wall and a column of fire, so they can either jump, block, or use some move with enough invuln to go through gunflame. Invulnerable moves can turn a fight, but they can also be really risky; so long as the Sol player blocks the move, the opponent is likely to get CH'd by the gunflame and eat a 50+% combo and a knockdown. Not exactly a safe option. Jumping is safer, and, indeed, seems to be the most common method for escaping GF pressure and mix ups, but keep in mind that Sol's 5K is great at catching jumps and once in the air the opponent has to deal with air throws and Sol's great anti-air. Still not all that safe, and leaves Sol at an advantage. The last option is to block. Blocking the gunflame leaves the opponent in a hit stun that lasts long enough for the Sol player to enforce a mix up (I usually start mine with 2P), and we see some similar options. The opponent can try to poke out, but 6P and 2D lead to nasty counter hits, and 5K can lead to GV, which is just as bad. Jumping is even less safe because of the close proximity of 5K, same with backdashes, and DPs and other invulnerable moves are just as unsafe as before. Blocking is the safest option, but it risks being wild thrown. Hence, the opponent must guess: either jump or back dash to escape the wild throw (poking and DPs can work, but DPs are just as unsafe as before and a well-timed WT will actually catch a lot of pokes), or block. A wrong guess either way is going to lead to big damage for Sol, while a correct guess will lead to either blocked attacks and a new chance to escape or damage for the opponent, but probably not as much as Sol would get off of a wrong guess. Now I'll consider BR FRC. The first thing to notice is that 5H does not keep the opponent in hit stun long enough to enforce the mix up and that Sol's position in the air leaves him very vulnerable to a lot of 6Ps. In fact, I think every single mix up that was done in that video will lose to a well timed 6P for many characters. There is the threat of a VV from Sol, but that runs into the same risks as DPs in the prior example, and a blocked VV is going to lead to much more damage for the opponent than a VV that connects will for Sol. Also, for characters that don't have a reliable 6P, air throw will win. If neither of those, then FDing in the air is safe against all of those mix ups. So, my point is that GF FRC has counters and ways to escape, but those counters are not entirely safe and lead to the opponent taking risks which can be punished. The risks BR FRC requires to counter, on the other hand, are pretty minimal, which gets back to the whole gimmick vs mix up thing. BR FRC is a gimmick because it is very easy to beat if the opponent sees it coming (and it's not particularly hard to see coming), while GF FRC can be hard to deal with even if the opponent sees it coming, which is a big part of why GF FRC is a tried and true staple of Sol's rush down while BR FRC is not. tl;dr GF FRC has counters which force the opponent to do risky things while BR FRC does not, which is why GF FRC is a staple of Sol's gameplay and BR FRC isn't.

No offense intended, but isn't that what we have the general Sol discussion thread for? And on that note, shouldn't that be where this discussion should be as well? =P

I tend to do GV after a wild throw on A.B.A. and Robo-Ky. The combo I use is: WT CLGV dash j.D (long pause) CLSW land 2H j.S CLSW nj.S CLSW BR I am unable to test at the moment, but, iirc, it does 157 damage to both. Be careful with it, though, as I've actually had the BR become techable against A.B.A. Also, VV(2) RC does tend to do more damage, but I almost always do VV(1) RC because not only is it safe on block, but it gives frame advantage to enforce pressure and mixups, as opposed to leaving me in the air directly above my opponent, which is often not the safest place to be. And those BR FRC mixups...I dunno, they just seem too slow to me. That and their reliance on 5H makes them even easier to see coming. The cross-up okizeme one might be more effective, but you can do the same mixup for no tension without the crossup, and the crossup isn't fast enough to throw people off more than the first few times they see it. On the plus side, it looks to me like BR FRC could be used to punish slide head. I'll have to do some testing once I get my PS2 set up again.

Dunno about the first one, but the second has to do with j.HS having no recovery time. So, you have to hit them just as the active frames of the second hit are ending and you should have time to airdash. That said, it does take some timing to get down, and, imho, it's considerably easier against taller characters.

Ah, thanks for the info. I think I was trying to fit in too many j.CLSWs, heh.

I'm looking for some SW loops off of WT on light characters. The loops I already know are: (All damage tested on May) WT, dash, 2H, nj.CLSW, 2H, nj.H, CLSW, nj.S, CLSW, BR = 161 WT, dash, j.D, CLSW, 2H, nj.H, CLSW, nj.S, CLSW, BR = 163 WT, dash, j.D, CLSW, 2H, nj.CLSW, 2H, nj.CLSW, BR = 169 I also know of the WT, iad.S, CLSW out of a corner, but I'm not sure how to finish it. Anyone have any other ones? Aside from the standard j.S, CLSW one, of course. =P

It is indeed character specific, and it's harder on some than on others. Basically, if they can tech from your throw, you can 5K them. Also, here's a vid showing who it works on, and also shows ways to combo them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0C5wQ4czmo EDIT: At least, I think it's character specific. I don't think I've ever gotten it to work nor seen it work on Johnny, Eddie, Venom, or Slayer (and I think Axl and Dizzy as well?), but, if I'm wrong, please correct me. =)

Not quite sure how useful this will be, but I've found that holding 3 can sometimes help. So, the input would be something like 623(hold)S/H or 6323(hold)S/H. Hopefully that will help a little. Mostly, though, it just takes practice.

It's not a glitch. It's just that the purple orb part of the overdrive does stupid good damage. I think it has something to do with causing the overdrive to hit twice.

IIRC, SVV (2) RC -> CLSW works on everybody, so long as you're close enough and are both on the ground. The space between the RC and the CLSW varies from char to char, though, with light characters requiring almost no space (I negative edge it) and heavy characters needing more. VV (1) RC is much safer and more practical, though, so opportunities for SVV (2) RC don't crop up that much. In my experience, anyway. =P

Thanks for the info, Nives. I have a follow up question, though: what are some good ways to punish predicted jumps and backdashes? It seems like 5K and maybe airthrow could be good for predicted jumps, 5H could get most backdashes, and Fafnir could punish both. Anything I'm missing or am mistaken about? Couple of links: Sol 101: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhzR6rlPP8M Basic Combos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l75EJqaod6g Hopefully that gives you some answers. Also, don't end combos with OTG GF Faint like the guy in the "basic combos" vid does. =P