Silmerion

Oh, is that happening this week? Friggin' fraternity Rush means I can't make it.

Acho 2v2 Yu vs. Aigis Aigis vs. Chie

Finally, some more Axl! 1/15/13 Mikado Random 2v2 Brett (?) (SO) vs. Yaxl (AX) Nobu (SO) vs. Yaxl (AX) Yaxl (AX) vs. Ken (ZA) Apparently, there are also a couple of Axls that played in the Chonari Cup, videos of whom I'll probably dig up eventually. Probably.

I've updated the OP with the health tier list for AC+R. Some interesting changes from AC - in general, there's some more stratification, and many characters shifted around. The list looks even less like the defense modifier tier list than it did before.

Pretty clever way of responding to criticisms that characters all did too much damage in AC. Instead of trying to tweak and rebalance everyone simultaneously, just roundly buff health!

Where did all the Axl players go? I haven't seen one in several waves of videos. ;_;

Cool, I'll run the numbers on these tonight - hopefully this whole effort won't have been disproven by then! Also, I edited the first post with a warning to take this with a grain of salt pending further review. Wouldn't want to mislead people, and all that. EDIT: Osuna, you were right. In the hypothetical scenario in which Dizzy and Baiken start at 240 actual health and get smacked with a combo that would do precisely 200 damage before modifiers, Dizzy's effective health ends up being higher even before guts is applied to her remaining health. I'll still run the numbers on the +R stuff if anyone's curious, but be aware that any ranking I can give you will in some cases reflect reality poorly or not at all.

If you can give me an example of one such situation where you think the order would shift around, I'd be happy to do the calculations.

I feel like any year an Arcsys game gets featured at EVO is a small victory. Even if I didn't play P4A, which I do (and I think it's a great game that totally deserves its slot), I'd be happy it was in.

Is the Labrys from A-cho Bob, or do they just use the same color scheme?

Moronic criminals or not, as long as EVO is popular and visible in the public eye, they're worth wasting thoughts on. It's our job as concerned members of the FGC to do everything we can to keep them honest.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not jump on the hate train here. It looks to me like they're trying to give the FGC a fair shake at earning a spot in EVO, increasing the chance that a relatively unknown game will get mainstream coverage, while also donating to breast cancer. Okay, seriously. I agree with MLP and Divekick being awful games for majors, but, like, Melee is not an easy game and has a sizeable skill cap. I've never understood all the hate for Smash. If you actually looked at the thread on Smashboards, it looks like the motivation is to protect their game from getting horrendously outbid by some corporation while also hoping to pressure Mr. Wizard et al for more transparency on the donations. I don't necessarily disagree that it's a selfish thing to do, but increased transparency and protection from corporate interference are totally things I can get behind. This is pretty baseless. Since we haven't seen any actual donation amounts, we have no idea what the "preliminary results" are. And so what if Smash wins? The community is sizable; they deserve to get their favorite game into EVO as much as anyone. There are tons of majors with huge support for anime games and beyond. That a single one, that also happens to be very visible, prefers to allocate limited feature space and funds to games with large, stable communities, shouldn't provoke a response this severe.

I mean, the issue of SFxT's quality notwithstanding, the fact is that main-line Capcom games are virtually guaranteed to have a good turnout.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Obviously, if different things happen because of the match-up or whatever, we're going to be looking at different situations. I've already conceded that this is not going to represent reality, and I'd definitely agree that there are match-up-specific factors that make a character more likely to survive than another in a particular case, but looking purely at the health bar and holding received attacks equal between all characters, this is where people fall. Oh, and just so we're clear: in no way am I claiming that this is anything more than a theoretical curiosity. Ah, yeah. Forgot that part. Baiken's health is still higher, though negligibly.

I dunno if GG's system is actually more complicated than, say, BB's, but it's definitely more unintuitive.

Dem 100% combos.

I applied Dizzy's defense modifier; that's in part how I got her numbers. I think it's a curiosity that makes some assumptions, in particular that it's only true when all other factors are held constant (in the Baiken vs. Dizzy example, we can say "Given a bunch of scenarios in which Baiken and Dizzy take damage in the same chunks as each other, more often than not Baiken will survive slightly longer").

Well, not with that attitude! You're probably right, but I mean, you're guaranteed to be right if we don't give it a shot. I'm gonna throw in $10 at least.

Here's some delicious, delicious beefcake. This guy (I think it's this guy) shows up sporadically in earlier parts of the video, but does not perform so well.

Shadow Labrys is all over this video. Apparently, it's someone named Sorashido.

Persona 4: Arena is in EVO! Get hype and dust off your red axe combos, Seito Kaichous! Labrys vs. Yukiko Labrys vs. Sorashido (Shadow Labrys) Labrys vs. Sorashido (Shadow Labrys) This is all the same Labrys. No idea who it is - if anyone knows, I'll edit it in.

Good to see Japan still knows this game exists, haha. What do you figure the chances of P4A being in SBO this year are?

Okay, let's look at the Potemkin Buster example. Baiken's initial health: 420 * 0.57 = 239.4 ~ 240 Pot Buster damage: 140 * 1.18 = 165.2 ~ 165 Baiken's actual health after PB: 75 = 17.9% of full health Effective damage scaling at 17.9%: 0.60 * 1.18 = 0.708 Effective health at 17.9%: 75/0.708 = 105.9 ~ 106 Now let's compare that to Dizzy in that situation, who would be a spot above Baiken in the health tier list if only defense modifiers were considered: Dizzy's initial health: 240 Pot Buster damage: 140 * 1.15 = 161 Dizzy's actual health after PB: 79 = 18.8% of full health Effective damage scaling at 18.8%: 0.72 * 1.15 = 0.828 Effective health at 18.8%: 79/0.828 = 95.4 ~ 95 So when we consider guts, Baiken does have a slight advantage over Dizzy. I think it's pretty clear that while how much guts helps is highly variable, that it helps in some way is hard to dispute. Now, how applicable is this? I honestly couldn't say. It probably isn't any more than a curiosity, but I'm fine with that. @Blade: I haven't touched anything but the normal characters, and in fact I haven't even touched them - this was all data found on the wiki. As such, I have no idea where Kliff and Justice fall (DL has no data for them).

Your description of Anji isn't TOO far off. In a game with lots of tough inputs and strict timings, he's pretty easy mechanically (I'd say the hardest thing you HAVE to learn is running Fuujin, or maybe Fuujin -> S FRC, and neither of those are really so awful). Actually playing him well, though? Well, that's a little trickier.

Wait, seriously? N-O just keeps proving he's one of the best GG players ever.