Xie

Yeah... when I double click it, it just takes me to the thread. I think? I might be missing a step here.

Yeah, it's such a pain in the ass not being able to do it myself. I have to ask a mod to do it for me.

Absolutely. Gimmicks are all about preference and play-style. What works for one person, might not work for someone else. On top of that, there's a billion different things the character can do that can result in a billion different things depending on what your opponent does. That's why it's difficult to flesh out what gimmicks there are and what gimmicks work without sounding silly. Then there's that additional layer of "oh that was stupid" or "why did that work" stuff, so in reality, it's all just better to avoid that, especially since Lambda is easily one of the strongest characters when played solidly. After all, even top players in Japan drop combos and aren't always shooting for the most optimized stuff. Shit is hard. If you had a specific question about a certain gimmick ("when should I try to tk overhead?") or what happened in X video ("what the fuck was that?"), you should definitely ask. That way, there's always a definite answer, instead of "here's this bag of tricks I use, if you like them you can try them". In fact, this is the thread to do that.

It's possible to simply the motion to a 360, and they do work. However, I personally don't like them, but it's still a matter of preference. As you said, because you have to make all these inputs within a "small" window, it is easy to tk7 too late and wind up with a late tk. In doing high rep versions of this combo, a late tk can mean the end of your combo. Also, I find when I do the over simplified motion, I end up doing Calamity sword on accident. Because of this, the motion becomes really weird for me: it's supposed to be an easier motion, but then I find myself having to watch the inputs and timing to make sure I don't get Calamity sword. tl;dr: It works, but I still like the standard inputs more. I like having clear, precise inputs.

Officially moved to Sunday. To everyone who suddenly can't make, sorry, this was the only way. NO REGRETS.

So, Sunday has opened up(?) apparently for the ranbat. (SF4 Canceled -w-) I'm leaning toward leaving it Saturday to avoid confusion though, any thoughts on this?

I would have gone but... Melty isn't in the lineup? Melty's AZ scene is way bigger than WC's, so that makes me sad.

Well, tking is definitely preference thing, and finding whatever input works for you is best. But yeah, for some people 6a9214d is a lot easier. I'll try to find time to write up different input methods for the FAQ part, since that usually goes under "Help! I can't do the motion!" type stuff. But hey, I actually prefer the run version sometimes. I get kinda nervous on characters like Ragna, so I'll do the run version to prevent myself from ever getting too close/low. So yeah, I'd leave it down to personal preference. Yeah it'll take awhile... I have some rough data for this, but it will take me awhile to organize and test it all. On the bright side, I won't have to test character specifics technically, since it's the "numerically highest due to frame data" type limit. On the fly though, it's actually really important to know the how different the moves prorate as the first hit or in a combo. This is the only real way you'll be able to accurately judge how many reps you're be able to do given any starter or any follow-up. As for me, I'll puss out and only shoot for 5 on the 60 prorate stuff (throw, airthrow, gravity CH), and only 6 on the 80+ stuff (pretty much everything else). 3c knockdown is a big part of my playstyle, so I'll always sacrifice some damage to land it. You know, I do want to talk about j214d -> 5d in another thread. But that's probably going to be a bigger thread just titled "Basic Combo Theory". The Crescent loop is the only combo that is far different from her other combos and takes its own thread. But j214d -> 5d is one of those moves you can throw out in a lot of different bnbs and situations, so I'd rather just rather talk about "how to combo" if that's the case. But yeah, I'll get to work on it after I find time to finish this one. This is a pretty sweet combo in it of itself, I eventually want to make a full list of people who you can hit with it, dash or no dash. I know for a fact you can hit even Carl with 5a -> 6a if you are beast enough with the dash, so I definitely want to talk about this combo at some point.

I'll try to be there Friday, hope I won't be too tired from work/gym/etc.

Hey, cool. Let me know when you're coming to AI (PM or something), so I can get the machine set for you. Or, maybe I can even throw an event the same day to help get things going. Though, can event mode really cost credits? The main reason I've been charging venue is because scott told me it couldn't.

Haha, resets are all about play style man. But more seriously, this doesn't exactly work the way you think it does. If you miss the 6a and allow your opponent to tech, it is not an airtech, but an emergency tech or ground tech. What happens in the corner is, your j214d will hit them, they ground bounce, then it continues to be untechable all the way until they ground bounce a second time. Once they hit the floor a second time, the window for "Emergency Tech" is activated. If they miss this, two things happen: 1) You 6a anyways and it picks them up during the second groundbounce, causing a blue beat or 2) You completely blow your 6a, and your opponent is then allowed to Ground Tech (Quick, Neutral, Forward, Backward). Your opponent is actually not able to airtech anywhere in the combo after being hit by a crescent. Now, you could actually try to air reset your opponent from 6a into another 6a, but the way the tech works from 6a is they will become air tech invincible during the neutral tech, then hit the ground before your 6a can hit them. On an unrelated note, you can use this to try and astral your opponent like a ghetto 720c trap, but it is very difficult to get an air reset like you would using bang's 5c and the double air fire punch air-tech set-up.

Ah, yes. See, I previously said that:

Yes, I realize that you meant all Crescent Saber combos and not just the one that begins from throw, but I still don't think you'll get an additional 3-5 more reps. For example, my personal best on 236C CH on Bang would be 236C CH -> [6a -> j214d] X7 -> 6a -> Crescent is blue at 17. If I am forced to add the 5b to the start of the combo, I'm usually ending up with something like 236C CH -> 5b -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> 6a -> Crescent is blue at 16 Hits. So, if it is the case that you can get 3-5 more reps without adding 5b to the start, could you also record a 236C (CH or not) where you are able to get 9~11 reps? Sweet, I'm totally looking forward to this. As a person, I absolutely trust you, but as a moderator and a Lambda player, it's my duty to doubt. I'm happy you brought this issue up and aren't getting defensive about it, because as a community, we all benefit from sharing, discussing, and critiquing each other's knowledge.

It's a figure of speech man. But anyways, I understand that yes, you can get extra reps when you omit 5b. But dude, you said an extreme number of extra reps, which is definitely misleading unless otherwise true. Like I said, if you'll show it to me I'll believe you, but until then, I'm forced to disagree. Cool. Now, like I said, it would be awesome if you could somehow confirm this. Even a shitty phone camera picture of the red colored 16 would be good enough for me. If I seem overly skeptical, it's not because I'm dying to prove you wrong or something, it's because I just want to know the truth and be able to confirm it. Because this thread is a psuedo-guide to a combo, I want to be able to confirm this data before I pass it onto other people.

To my knowledge, omitting a 5b and only doing 6a in a tk combo will absolutely NOT prolong a combo 3-5 reps. I'm not really sure how you came up with this idea, but 5b prorates extremely similarly to 6a and Crescent Saber when used in the middle of a combo (90% versus 91%), and that additional 1% prorate in the middle of your combo isn't going to magically give you an additional 3-5 reps. Each 5b will mean that you will get 1 less 6a or Crescent Saber, and that is pretty much all that means. I'm guessing I forgot to explicitly mention this somewhere in the guide, so I'll rewrite it to include this. Hey now, I'm not sure if you misread or something, but I said that throw combo was only an example in how to perform the combo. In any case, I'm not sure if you're misunderstanding or not, but it is definitely not possible to get [6a -> j214d] X 7 based on the proration data. It is possible to get 4445 damage from a throw via Throw -> [6a -> j214d] X 6 -> 6a -> j2dd -> j2dd -> j214d. If this is the combo you're probably talking about, and this is a 6 rep version with air combo ender. If you have a video or something that shows otherwise, I'd love to see it, as I certainly wouldn't mind adding an additional rep myself. Regarding Carl, Noel, and Taokaka, it is true that if you're too close to the corner, your Crescent Saber may whiff. However, this can be avoided via additional height, so it's not so much an issue of closeness as it is an issue of spacing. And you're right, the reference section isn't finished, it's something I just threw out there because I was sick of writing already and I wanted to be finished, but is supposed to eventually have a list of hitbox considerations to think about. Numerically, it is theoretically possible to get the same number of reps on everyone, but the issue of hitboxes can cause it to be difficult to retain height while maintaining closeness. Sorry I wasn't clear with that, I'll rewrite it to be more clear.

Post resevered for FAQ: But it'll look something like: Help! I can't do the TK motion!: Well, lots could be going wrong, even if you input the motion and press the button, here are some common problems: I did a jumping d: A) You didn't complete the motion properly before pressing D. Thus, with no proper 214 in there, you just get the D B) You completed the motion, but pressed D too late. Thus, the game forgot your 214 and just remembers the D. I did a ground 214d: A) You didn't press any up motions at all before pressing D. Thus, you didn't jump so you get a ground 214d. B) You canceled your jump startup into 214d. In Blazblue, it is possible to cancel your jump startup into special attacks. Thus, when you press D too quickly after inputting the jump, the jump will be canceled by the special attack before the jump completely comes out. Thus, you get a ground 214d. I'm too high when I perform the crescent saber: A) You pressed D too late, but completed the motion. Timing takes practice. B) Your motion is too awkward. This one you really just need to practice and make sure you input it in a way that allows you to get the 214d to come out quickly.

It seems inevitable, a lot of questions are going to be asked about this combo, and rather than clutter up the combo/general discussion thread, better off dedicating a thread to the combo, since there's plenty to talk about irregardless. This is work in progress that I randomly decided to type out in one go, so expect many typos and potential restructuring of the entire guide. And of course, my methodology might not be perfect, but that's never going to happen right? First of all, we'll take the ground up approach to this combo. This has many different conditions and they are often variable, so knowing how to ad-lib this combo is very important. It goes without saying, this combo deals big damage, so being able to shift into this combo is very important to Lambda's damage output. So, what is this combo? The combo works as an effect of the untechable time that the tk crescent gives you on a hit in the corner. When midscreen, your opponent will go flying away, often not letting you take advantage of this untechable time. However, in the corner, your opponent stays next to you, allow you to land a 6a after hitting with a tk Crescent. Hence, you're able to pick your opponents back up with a 6a or 5b and continue hitting them with another tk crescent. There are a lot of more subtle factors that influence and to continue the combo, those will be talked about in greater detail later. Why does the combo end? The main reason the combo ends is due to proation. Each time you hit your opponent with an attack that does not have positive proration, the combo's proration increases. As the combo's proration increases, it eventually reaches the threshold where the untechable time of all attacks in the combo decreases. Thus, eventually, once the proratio becomes high enough, the untech time from 6a becomes low enough such that it becomes no longer possible to connect a crescent after a 6a, and the thus combo ends. How do I start this combo? There are a lot of different ways to begin this combo, here are the most common ways: (Corner) B+C-> 6a (Corner) 236c Hit -> 5b(Omit if opponent is very high, such as from CH 236c) -> 6a (Corner) 236b Hit -> (Dash) -> 5a -> 6a (Corner) 3c -> 214a (Corner) j214d (rc) -> 6a (Corner) 214d -> 6a (Near Corner Airhit) 6c -> (Dash) -> 6a (Near Corner Airhit) 5ccccccc -> 214a -> 6a Of course, there are many other ways as well to begin this combo, so be on the look out for them and determine whether the situation calls for the loop or not. What are the core components of the combo? The Normals: Note, that you want your normals to hit your opponents as early as possible. Though, there are situations where this is not true, that is the exception and not the rule. For the most part, hitting as early as possible, you'll be able to preserve your opponent's height easier. The exact reasons for this we'll get into as we talk more about optimizing the combo. 6a: This is the attack that connects to the j214d, needless to say, it's an essential part of the combo. Fortunately, it's also the easiest, and there's nothing special in performing this move, save for doing it as early as possible. 5b: This is the secondary move that you use to hit characters with in the TK Crescent loop. If you want to build "height" in your combo, this is a necessary move. This attack also you to revolver action into a 6a on an airborne opponent at a larger height, so your opponent will be higher relative to yourself following a 5b 6a. As you probably guessed, the loop will also end if your opponent gets too low, because your 6a will not be able to connect. Specifically, this move is extremely helpful when you hit a cornered opponent with 236c. Note, adding an additional 5b will mean that you'll get one less 6a or j214d in the final hit count of your combo, so if you're looking for maximum damage versus stability, 5b will weaken your total rep count. The Crescents: Note that for whichever Crescent Saber you prefer to use in any given combo, it is greatly beneficial to perform it as low to the ground as possible. The lower you perform your Crescent Saber, the faster the start-up is. With that in mind, your opponent will fall less during the combo, and you'll be able to preserve your height more. j2147d(tk7): This is the standard, and arguably the most easy TK motion for the low Crescent saber. This version will build distance, as you will jump away slightly from your opponent. j2148d(tk8): This is another motion for the low Crescent Saber, this version builds a small amount of distance from your opponent. j2149d(tk9): This is the last version of the low Crescent Saber, and this version will actually move you closer to your opponent, reducing distance. Variable moves: 5cccccccc6c: On some characters, they will bounce high enough after a TK Crescent such that you can land a 5cccccccc6c on them. This is a viable choice and can be followed up with a 6a or 236c in many situations. However, for the most part, the damage seems to be inferior to a complete Crescent Loop, so I personally do not like this combo. 214a: If you suddenly feel like your opponent is dangerously low, you can theoretically pick them back up with a 214a. However, if you make this judgement, it is greatly beneficial to make this judgement early, as it will allow you to deal more damage and build more of your gravity back if done earlier as opposed to later. At which case, I believe that simply ending your loop prematurely is the best choice. Enders: 6a -> j2dd/jdd -> j2dd -> j214d: Generic air combo ender. The damage is good, but the knockdown isn't anything special to speak of. This ender is important for when you want to cut your combo short, as it adds the most damage when your combo is shorter. You need to be farther away from your opponent to hit them with the swords, as they do not hit up close. It helps if you jump backwards away from your opponent and if your last few Crescent Sabers were tk7. Also, this is a nice way to mask that you messed up your tk motion and got a j.d. 3c: This is the standard knockdown ender. Landing one of these can be kind of tricky because your opponent needs to be bouncing at a certain height for it to hit properly. However, this is easily the best knockdown of the combo and gives you many different options to play with. Some common options after a 3c are 214d or jump iad backwards. 214d: No, really. Okay yeah, this usually happens because you fucked up your tk motion. But hey, sometimes your opponent will mash to tech and neutral tech into it, getting hit by it or air blocking it. Getting hit by Spike Chaser raw in the corner is HUGE DAMAGE, so its a nice way to turn a potential frown upside down. How do I actually perform the combo? The basic flow of the combo works like this: Starter -> [Normals -> Crescent]xN -> Ender There are four factors that you need to keep in mind while you continue the loop, and what they do to the loop: Hitbox: The hitbox of your opponent. Luckily this doesn't mysteriously change during the combo, so it's all about knowing beforehand. I've compiled what I know at the end of the article. Height: The current height of your opponent. This is important in many ways, and is perhaps the most important part of the combo. The current height of your opponent will determine whether your next attack will hit your opponent or not. There are many different forces at work here, and they depend on character hitbox, but for the most part, the lower your opponent is, the more in danger it is of dropping. Distance: The horizontal distance of yourself to your opponent. Well, it should be obvious that if you're too far from your opponent, you won't be able to do this combo because your 6a or 5b will not hit. However, there are also some characters where being too close is also a problem (at some heights), so make sure you're aware of this. Prorate: The current prorate of your combo. Now, its quite difficult to calculate the current proration of your combo in your head, so... the only way to know it is to have experience performing the combo. The reason this is important is, it will determine how much untech time you have left in your combo, and will determine whether certain maneuvers will be possible or not. To perform the loop, just perform the inputs while keeping in mind the four factors. If your opponent gets too low, perform a 5b 6a to build vertical height. If you are getting farther from your opponent, perform a dashing attack to make up the horizontal distance. Once the prorate goes up, you won't be able to performing a dashing attack or late crescent sabers anymore, so make sure to optimize the height and distance before you get to this stage of the combo to max out the damage. This is sort of difficult to visualize, so an example is in order: Take for instance, the basic throw combo: Throw -> 6a -> j214d -> 6a -> j214d -> 5b -> 6a -> j214d -> 6a -> j214d -> [Ender] There are three basic ways to perform this combo, tk7 version, tk9 version, and the hybrid version. Tk7 version: Throw -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2147d -> Dash -> 5b -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2147d [Ender] This is the basic version that was discovered, and for the most part, works on everyone. The way the combo works is very basic. As you perform the 6a j2147ds, you get farther from your opponent and they start to lose height. Thus, halfway through the combo, you performing a Dash 5b 6a to regain both height and distance on your opponent, optimizing both factors for the rest of the combo. It is usually best to perform this maneuver at the 3rd rep for a couple a reason. The first reason is that on most characters, you will be out of range for a 5b or 6a anyways on the third rep, so a dash is necessary here regardless. The reason you want the 5b is another effect of this, there is more startup on your normals because of the dash, so you'll lose some height. Thus, the 5b will allow you to regain some height for your 6a to hit and then for the rest of your combo to hit. Note that it is possible to dash on the second rep as well, but that will mean that you will be too far to hit your opponent on the 5th rep, and a dash is not possible on the 5th rep due to the lost untech time due to the proration of the combo. TK9 version: Throw -> 6a -> j2149d -> 6a -> j2149d -> (5b) -> 6a -> j2149d -> 6a -> j2149d -> 6a -> j2149d -> [Ender] This is the second version of the combo. This does not work on everyone, but does not require a dash anywhere in the combo. This is because the j2149d keeps you close enough to your opponent for the entire combo. Thus, a 5b is also not always necessary, because the lost height from dashing doesn't always apply. This is important because on some characters, an extra rep is possible when the 5b is omitted, but more on that later. Hybrid version: Throw -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2149d -> (5b) -> 6a -> j2147d -> 6a -> j2149d -> 6a -> j2147d [Ender] This is the practical application of both tks. As expected, it requires no dash, but also prevents you from being too close on some characters. Conclusion: In conclusion, there's a lot to practice regarding this combo. Hopefully, (with a few revisions), I've helped you understand a little more about it and how it works. As you might have gathered, there's a lot to keep track of if you want to be able to perform this combo on the fly, but practice and experience make perfect. I'll try to compile some video examples of the different variants that are possible. Reference: This is a bit of a WIP, since it will require massive testing and confirming to make sure this is all true/optimized for everyone.

We should play Chris, you can play against my MILLIA.

It's not a tournament I ran unless I make at least one typo. Anyways, 18th and 25th are both SF4 tournaments, so the 24th is pretty much it.

Car gone. Probably not going tonight.

First posted updated. Now, if I could get Scott to update the title for me. Edit: Also, after SSF4 comes out, I might be able to start holding them bi-weekly since SF4 won't be run(?). The ranbat season will run until 1.5, and that'll be it for the first season. As far as finals for the singles season are concerned, I think I will have top8 (or maybe 16?) in points play to determine the final standings. I'll probably throw in $100 or something, but more on that later.

I'm going to this. Maybe we can upgrade MBAA:CC to qualifier status too? :D

I'll be honest-I can't make that face when I'm confused. Anyways, I'm looking at the 17th or the 24th, leaning on the 24th. Gotta see if Scott will come out.

:psyduck::psyduck:

It probably won't be the 18th or the 25th. Apparently SF4 is on both of those days.