Bill307

The combos into Astral at the end are nice. There was also a good idea for 6DB near your corner: go into 2DC 46B etc. to side switch and put them into the corner. I'm not a fan of most of the combos in this video, though. Most of them either: - use combo routes that aren't as good as the ones in the previous 2 videos, and/or - don't end in oki. It did teach me one new thing: 5BB 3C 5DC 2DA is possible. (vs Ragna, at least)

41236C RC combo From midscreen: 41236C RC 6C delay 6DA 2DA 46B 3C 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [4450 -92] You can replace 3C with 5C for 4567 damage, but I find it a lot harder to connect 2DB (on Jin) in this case. Not sure if this combo is optimal since I didn't test much.

[4]1236C RC 6C works, apparently! 6C 6DB is pretty easy near the corner, but at midscreen it's quite difficult to hit. 6DA is a lot easier to time at midscreen. The super is a "short" starter like 2A. E.g. starting from training mode initial positions: 41236C RC 6C delay 6DA 2DA 46B 3C 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [4450 -92] You can replace 3C with 5C for 4567 damage, but I find it a lot harder to connect 2DB (on Jin) in this case. Not sure if this combo is optimal since I didn't test much. Edit: I think I know what you mean. I remember vs someone (probably Ragna) I had to delay the 46B for a looong time after 2DC to avoid OTGing him. Was confused because I was sure only a slight delay was needed, haha.

Woah, I didn't notice that! [4]1236C is 1+1! After a bit of testing, apparently it loses to meaties: nothing happens if you get hit on frame 2. If there's a trade, the rest of the hits don't come out. The hitbox of the 1st hit doesn't go very far, but it's enough to punish e.g. Jin 2B on block (probably not a match-practical example, unless you want to really shock someone, lol). Perhaps more useful, Jin 5C from mid range (not max range) is also punishable on block. 41236C beats 5C 6B chain, and if they do 5C 6C chain, a reversal 41236C beats this as well. :O Also, as a gimmicky, unburstable alternative to flashkicking, if you see a frame trap coming you can OD in the frame trap, use the OD invul to let the frame trap miss you, then punish the move's recovery with [4]1236C for 2764 damage. :P

Kagura frame data, tweeted by Blue Link / @BLUELINKBR http://www.hitconfirm.com.br/forums/showthread.php/2719-BBCP-Kagura-Frame-Data?p=59472#post59472 Flashkick????? Ok admittedly, based on playing the flashkick character in Arcana, I know that when you're online, flashkick is waaay less useful 'cause your reaction time is nerfed. But offline, it turns "slow" (like, Jin 6B slow), ordinarily safe frame-traps and hard-to-mash-outables into unsafe moves. It destroys predictable pressure strings. They can't even jump-cancel and barrier to bait it 'cause it's safe on air block. (In fact, it's a mixup for them if they jump towards you 'cause you can just meet them mid-air and throw or TRM setup...) His other tools for escaping pressure are pretty mediocre on their own. Short-range 7-frame 2A. Slow backdash (see frame data above). A slow 12-frame 2B for poking people in that area where flashkick can whiff. Jump back barrier seems average. Ideally, you want them to respect (or fear) your flashkick. If they base their pressure around not getting flashkicked, it'll make your other options much more useful. Cancelling blocked normals into flashkick is like, the worst advice ever TBH. Cancelling normals into drives on block can be unsafe, too, but the risk-reward is a hundred times better. Edit: Thanks for this! What setup did you test this with? I'm hoping it's the same list for any "46B non-OTG oki" situation. I'd be annoyed if the list was setup-specific as well. :/ I also wonder if there are any other characters like Kagura who don't seem to get OTG'd ever...

I actually found a slightly higher damage CH 6DC combo, but I'm not sure how to make the timing consistent. :/ On the other hand, I have no idea how he connects the 2nd 6DA in his combo, but at least I've done this one successfully a few times. (this is also vs Nu-13, from initial training mode spots) CH 6DC delay 2DA 46B 6C delay 6DA 6B 5C (delay?) 6DC (delay?) 5DA 66 (4?) 3C 6DC 2DC 5D~28D [6142] The one in the video deals 5882 after super. Doubt I'll use this in a real match unless someone figures out how to get the 6DC 5DA 66 3C consistently.

I delay the 46A a little bit. I find it easier to connect the 5B afterwards since they're a little lower.

Day9 is currently playing Hamnesia: A Machine For Pigs: http://www.twitch.tv/day9tv He's currently maybe 40% through the part of the game that we played at Francis's house. It's great 'cause he plays it the same way we do: perpetually scared. :D

GGs Ryan! Hope to see you at Mainbase next time you can make it, Kirito! Are ppl gonna be watching Kill La Kill at Mainbase tomorrow? Wanna know if I should just watch it on my own now (if it's out).

... You've lost me, lol.

Thanks! I've noticed 46B never OTGs Kagura. And in the combos with that note, "46B non-OTG oki", it might be character specific (I probably tested with Jin), but 46B doesn't seem to OTG them even if you do it right away. It's got to do with the height at which 2DC hits them, I believe.

Eh? Why wouldn't you use 2DC 46B after a 2A starter? If they don't tech, you get a 3k blue beat combo and possibly corner oki. If they air tech an orb OTG, what exactly do you do to make them barrier if they back air tech (keeping in mind they might go forwards or neutral, or not air tech at all)? Seems like Hazama in particular could just back air tech, double jump, and chain out.

I like how I remembered to try that (5C 2DA 5DA 66 3C) after 46B oki but not after 46A oki. T_T Thanks. I'll add it to my text file! Not sure which combo I'll use yet: I might prefer the 2DA ender since imo it gives better oki.

TBH, I don't see any benefit to doing 2DC 46A rather than 46B. I haven't tried it in a "non-OTG" combo, but from a 2A BnB, 2DC 46A will also blue beat OTG unless you delay it. And if you do 2DC delay 46A/B, they can just roll backwards and jump away to escape. (Midscreen, of course.) If there's a timing where you can do 2DC 46A, avoid OTGing them, and still be able to force them to block if they roll backwards, it'd be useful... When you say, "it puts them at tip distance of 5C and 2C", are you talking about 2DC 46A or 2DB 46A? And in either case, it doesn't matter if they're at that distance if they can just jump away before you can touch them. Whenever I tried 46A at midscreen, I could never stop them from jumping away after rolling back.

So I've been telling people to not emergency tech vs Kagura's oki with his orbs, because that forces you to block them and I get a free mixup (I'm almost Chie!) Well, it turns out that at midscreen, you might be better off emergency teching, because if you don't, the 46B (usually) OTGs you and here's what happens: Collapsed: Combos: Near midscreen to their corner: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DB 5DC 2DA (delay 46B oki) [3086 +22] Just over midscreen, difficult: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DA 2DB (46A oki near corner) [2762 +19] Anywhere: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DA 3C 6DC [2884 +20] Anywhere: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DA 2DA 5DC 28C [3604 +25] So, if you don't emergency tech the big orb at midscreen, assuming I react fast enough, my 1.5k midscreen BnB turns into a 2.8k to 3.6k meterless damage combo, possibly with corner carry or corner orb oki. On the other hand, if you do emergency tech, you could eat anywhere from 3k to 5k additional meterless damage if you don't block the high/low or left/right correctly... Well, IMO, if you're far away from your corner, then you should ALWAYS avoid teching and let the orb OTG you! If that happens, I have no way of putting you back into orb oki again. You may lose an extra 1.3k or 2k life, but I won't even be able to meaty your wake-up! Generally, it's probably best to mix it up at least a bit. E.g. I guarantee I'll get lazy and stop looking for the no-emergency-tech if you almost always emergency tech, which means I won't be able to get big damage from the OTG and might actually end up whiffing a drive which gives you a free punish. :S Sure! I should be back by 7:30, actually. BBCP takes about 1.5 hours to download on my connection, IIRC. If you have a cell phone, can you text me your #? Come to think of it, if you don't have a cell phone, how am I going to know when you've arrived... :S My front door is behind a locked basement door. Well, if you check the bus schedules and tell me exactly when you expect to get off the iXpress at McCormick (assuming that's how you're getting here), I can estimate how long it'll take for you to walk here (10 minutes) and check outside at that time. If you're nowhere in sight, I'll assume you missed a bus and I'll check 15 or 30 minutes later, and so on until you show up or you borrow someone's phone to call me and tell me you can't make it. Let me PM you my cellphone #. So if someone does go wrong, worst case you can borrow a phone from someone or use a payphone and let me know.

Kagura has too many combos. :/ I've started a list of combos: the most practical ones (generally optimal or close to it) and some variations of them. I probably won't learn the variations right now (or ever?) but it's useful to have them to compare the damage/oki tradeoffs. I can tell this list is going to be ridiculously long... Below is a subset of my list: combos that I don't think have been posted here yet. And below that is the full list so far. I haven't added throw/5DB combos, fatal counter combos, or corner combos yet. Collapsed: New(?) Stuff: =================== Your Half of Screen =================== ----- 2B/5B/6A ----- (2B 5B / 6A) 6B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5B 3C 2DC (46B non-OTG oki) [2407 +17 / 2735 +19] ----- 2DA 46A ----- 2DA 46A 5B 3C 2DC (46B non-OTG oki) [2637 +18] 2DA 46A 5B 3C 2DC 5DA 6DC [3155 +22] 2DA 46A 5B 3C 2DC 5DC 28C [3720 +26] ----- 2DA 5DA ----- 2DA 5DA 66 (cross-up) 5A 6B j.B dj.B dj.C [2575 +18] 2DA 5(1)DA 6(3)DC 28C [3558 +25] ----- 2DA 6DA ----- 2DA 6DA 5B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC [3594 +25] 2DA 6DA 5B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB j.A j.B dj.B dj.C [3462 +24] ----- 2DA 6DB ----- 2DA 6DB 5DC (nothing / 28C) [2442 +17 / 3544 +25] ----- 6DB 5DC ----- 6DB 5DC delay 2DA 46B 6C delay 6DA 3C 2DC 6DC [4605 +33] 6DB 5DC delay 2DA 46B 6C delay 6DA 3C 2DC 5DA 28C [5110 +36] ========================= Opponent's Half of Screen ========================= ----- 2DA 6DA ----- 2DA 6DA 5B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [3795 +27] ====================== Near Opponent's Corner ====================== ----- 2DA 46A ----- 2DA 46A 5BB 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [3433 +24] ----- 2DA 6DA ----- 2DA 6DA 5B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC 2DA (46B oki) [3827 +27] ----- 2DA 6DB ----- 2DA 6DB 5DC 5C 46A 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [4417 +31] ==================== In Opponent's Corner ==================== ----- During 46A Oki ----- ((catch roll or quick tech) 46A 5B / (OTG) 5B) 3C 2DC 6DA 5BB 5C 46B 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [3554 +24 / 3379 +24] (catch roll or quick tech) 46A 5B 3C 6DC 2DC 46B 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [3690 +26] (OTG) 5B 3C 2DC 5DA 6DA 5BB 5C 46B 6C 6DB 5DC delay 2DA (46B oki) [3606 +25] ----- During 46B Oki ----- (catch roll or quick tech) 46B delay 5BB 5C delay 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [2228 +16] (catch roll or quick tech) 46B delay 5BB 5C short delay 2DA 5DA 66 3C 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [2565 +19] Collapsed: Full List (so far): =================== Your Half of Screen =================== ----- 2A ----- 2A 2B 5BB 3C 2DC (46B oki) [1542 +11] 2A 2B 5BB 3C 2DC 6DC [1845 +13] 2A 2B 5BB 3C 2DC 5DC 28C [2526 +18] ----- 2A ... 2DC 46B Blue Beat ----- 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C delay 6DA 3C 6DC [2884 +20] 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C delay 6DA 2DA 5DC 28C [3604 +25] ----- 2B/5B/6A ----- (2B 5B / 6A) 6B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC [2550 +18 / 2896 +20] (2B 5B / 6A) 6B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB j.A j.B dj.B dj.C [2420 +17 / 2748 +19] (2B 5B / 6A) 6B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5B 3C 2DC (46B non-OTG oki) [2407 +17 / 2735 +19] (2B 5B / 6A) 6B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5B 3C 2DC 5DC 28C [3058 +21 / 3472 +24 ] ----- 2DA 46A ----- 2DA 46A 5B 3C 2DC (46B non-OTG oki) [2637 +18] 2DA 46A 5B 3C 2DC 5DA 6DC [3155 +22] 2DA 46A 5B 3C 2DC 5DC 28C [3720 +26] ----- 2DA 5DA ----- 2DA 5DA 66 (cross-up) 5A 6B j.B dj.B dj.C [2575 +18] 2DA 5(1)DA 6(3)DC 28C [3558 +25] ----- 2DA 6DA ----- 2DA 6DA 5B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC [3594 +25] 2DA 6DA 5B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB j.A j.B dj.B dj.C [3462 +24] ----- 2DA 6DB ----- 2DA 6DB 5DC (nothing / 28C) [2442 +17 / 3544 +25] ----- 6DB 5DC ----- 6DB 5DC delay 2DA 46B 6C delay 6DA 3C 2DC 6DC [4605 +33] 6DB 5DC delay 2DA 46B 6C delay 6DA 3C 2DC 5DA 28C [5110 +36] ============================== Near Opponent's Half of Screen ============================== ----- 6DB 5DC ----- 6DB 5DC delay 2DA 46B 6C delay 6DA 3C 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [4589 +32] ========================= Opponent's Half of Screen ========================= ----- 2A ----- 2A 2B 5BB 3C 2DC 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [1827 +13] ----- 2A ... 2DC 46B Blue Beat ----- 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DB 5DC delay 2DA (46B oki) [3086 +22] ----- 2B/5B/6A ----- (2B 5B / 6A) 6B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [2747 +19 / 3119 +22] ----- 2DA 6DA ----- 2DA 6DA 5B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [3795 +27] ====================== Near Opponent's Corner ====================== ----- 2B/5B/6A ----- (2B 5B / 6A) 6B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [2888 +20 / 3280 +23] ----- 2DA 46A ----- 2DA 46A 5BB 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [3433 +24] ----- 2DA 6DA ----- 2DA 6DA 5B 3C 2DC short delay 46A 5BB 5C 6DC 2DA (46B oki) [3827 +27] ----- 2DA 6DB ----- 2DA 6DB 5DC 5C 46A 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [4417 +31] ==================== In Opponent's Corner ==================== ----- 2A ----- 2A 2B 5B 3C 6DC 2DC 46B 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [3131 +22] ----- During 46A Oki ----- ((catch roll or quick tech) 46A 5B / (OTG) 5B) 3C 2DC 6DA 5BB 5C 46B 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [3554 +24 / 3379 +24] (catch roll or quick tech) 46A 5B 3C 6DC 2DC 46B 5C 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [3690 +26] (OTG) 5B 3C 2DC 5DA 6DA 5BB 5C 46B 6C 6DB 5DC delay 2DA (46B oki) [3606 +25] ----- During 46B Oki ----- (catch roll or quick tech) 46B delay 5BB 5C delay 6DC 5DA 2DA (46B oki) [2228 +16] (catch roll or quick tech) 46B delay 5BB 5C short delay 2DA 5DA 66 3C 6DC 2DB (46A oki) [2565 +19] Notes: - "46B non-OTG oki" means the 46B will not OTG them if they don't tech. - You shouldn't always cancel into 46A/B right away when using them for oki. Generally, you want to do it asap in 2DC 46B, with a small delay in 2DB 46A, and with a longer delay in 2DA 46B to let Kagura step backwards first. - Some of the starters are 2 moves, e.g. 2DA 46A, 2DA 6DA, etc. I did this because, assuming I can't hit confirm the 2DA, I have to choose beforehand which move/drive I want to use after it. E.g. if the opponent mashes a lot after 2DA I won't do 2DA 6DA. - You can option select 2DA 46A on hit and 2DA 6DC on block. The input is 1DA (hold 1) 6A+C+D. (You can make 6DC safe on block with 5DA 66.) - The full list is missing the 2A combo ending in 2DC 5DA 6DC. This is intentional: vs Jin, I couldn't get the 6DC to connect if the combo started with e.g. 2A 2B 5BB 3C. Even with just 2A 2B 3C I find I have to delay the 5DA a bit, and sometimes the combo drops there as well. For simplicity and less risk, I'm just going to leave the 5DA out.

So, I discovered 2 interesting things about 2DC 46B: 1. In some cases, you can do 46B asap and it will NOT OTG! 2. If immediate 46B doesn't OTG, and they roll backwards to escape, you can force them to block on wake-up with dash 2C. Cases where 2DC 46B won't OTG: - BnB vs Kagura - raw 2DC 46B (useful for testing in training mode) - 2DA 46A 5B 3C 2DC 46B - and more? I haven't tested that 2DA combo on every character (just Kagura/Jin/Azrael), so I can't say if it's a universal no-OTG.

Blue beat combos from 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B OTG (also posted in Gameplay Discussion thread) After 2DC 46B, react to the opponent not emergency teching and 6C asap. Collapsed: combos: Near midscreen to their corner: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DB 5DC delay 2DA (delay 46B oki) [3086 +22] Just over midscreen, difficult: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C delay 6DA 2DB (46A oki near corner) [2762 +19] Anywhere: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C delay 6DA 3C 6DC [2884 +20] Anywhere: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C delay 6DA 2DA 5DC 28C [3604 +25]

Pretty much yeah. If your combo is short and didn't already use 46B, then 2DC immediate 46B is the way to go. If they don't emergency tech, you can react to it and 6C into a nice 2.7k to 3.6k combo. For example: Collapsed: combos: Near midscreen to their corner: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DB 5DC 2DA (delay 46B oki) [3086 +22] Just over midscreen, difficult: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DA 2DB (46A oki near corner) [2762 +19] Anywhere: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DA 3C 6DC [2884 +20] Anywhere: 2A 2B 3C 2DC 46B (blue beat) 6C 6DA 2DA 5DC 28C [3604 +25] (I should cross-post these to the combo thread...) However, if you've already hit them with 46B or if the hitstun loss is too high, they can just air tech after being hit by 46B. You could delay the 46B so it doesn't OTG them, but then they can just roll backwards to escape. In this case, you'd might as well end the combo in 3C 2DC 5DA 6DC for corner carry (or 3C 6DC 2DB if you're close enough to the corner already). Also, for some reason, 46B does not OTG Kagura! So in the Kagura mirror, you should again go for the corner carry BnB. (edit: not necessarily: see my next post) Lastly, I did a lot of testing with 2DB 46A/B oki in the corner and here's a "short list" of stuff I found: - If you do 46A immediately, they can roll forward without being picked up. - If you delay 46A slightly, they can't roll forward and you still recover in time to block an emergency tech 6-frame reversal (Noel gun super). - Assuming you delayed 46A slightly, you can option select forward roll, backward roll, quick tech, and do nothing with 5B into a 3.6k combo into 2DA 46B oki. Unfortunately, if they neutral tech, you whiff 5B and are at a small disadvantage. - They can always avoid blocking 46A by neutral teching in reaction to it. - If they have no reversal, you can wait and react to their tech with 46A and they have to block it, unless they quick tech. Most other oki options from 2DB can be punished if they wake up in a specific way, especially if they have a reversal. (By the way, at midscreen, they can just roll backwards to escape from 2DB 46A. It's really only useful in or near the corner.)

For those of you who like doing 3C 5DC 2DA... Midscreen dashing 5B/6A for 3.6/4k meterless (dashing into opponent) 5B/6A 6B 3C 5DC delay 2DA 46B 6C delay 6DA 3C 2DC 6DC [3599 +25 / 4059 +29] Edit: above with flashkick ender: ... 6DA 3C 2DC 5DA 28C [3949 +28 / 4416 +31] You do 2DC 5DA 28C by inputting it as 2DC 1DA 28C. (2DC 2DA will not work) You can replace 6DC with 46B for "oki", but either you delay it and they can roll back to escape, or you don't and they can get hit and air tech away. If they're aware of this, you'd might as well get the corner carry or extra damage. Starting on your half of the stage: (dashing into opponent) 5B/6A 6B 3C 5DC delay 2DA 46B 6C delay 6DA 3C 6DC 2DB (46A oki in corner) [3587 +25 / 4047 +29] Not too hard to figure out how to end these combos in 5D~28D for an extra 1.1k.

vs Kedako http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q5fzeDnqjM&t=2356 WHITE POWER! (He's also using the White May colour. :D)

I'm at Mainbase to borrow Greg's LGP. And I'm gonna be a whistleblower: the only one studying right now is Jon. CP and puzzle fighter being played. Edit: aaand I just left without getting the LGP. (Goddamnit puzzle fighter!) Guess I'll have to see if I can come tmrw.

I've been looking at oki options from 2DC 46B, 2DB 46A/B and I'm planning to write a new post on those later. I've started taking another look at 2DA 46B, which I thought was perfect because you can time it so that you can block neutral tech reversal (e.g. Noel 6-frame gun super) and also prevent them from rolling forward past you or the orb. However, it looks like you can quick tech and reversal to beat this timing. So it looks like, if you do 2DA 46B, you have to choose between preventing forward roll (and get punished by quick tech reversal) and preventing quick tech reversal (and get punished by forward roll). Although, I still have to test whether you can rapid cancel 46B on reaction to quick tech to bait that option. On the upside, if the opponent has no reversal, they have no way to avoid blocking the 46B. (Also, I cannot do quick tech reversal Noel 632146C reliably at all. I had to test with Ragna 623C. :P )

Cool! Unfortunately, I think most players will learn not to tech asap vs Kagura so that he doesn't get free oki. :/ On the upside, they don't benefit much from not teching 2DA in the corner: a well-timed 46B forces them to block the orb or get hit, no matter what they do. If they know that, they'll probably try to tech 2DA asap to avoid getting OTG'd into a 2.2k combo into another 2DA corner oki. In that case, they'll end up teching the 46B and probably get hit by this reset. Edit: after some more testing, 2DA 46B isn't quite as great as I'd thought...

Not sure if this is what you're asking, but he can charge 4[]6A/B and 4[]1236C from any move that doesn't require him to press forwards, i.e. any move except 6D~A/B/C, 3C, and 6C. E.g. 4D performs his 5D drives and 1D performs his 2D drives so you can charge your orbs while driving. 2D~C 4[]6A 4[]1236C is possible (and necessary for one of his challenges), but you have to input/buffer the 4[]6A as early as possible and start charging 4 again (before the 2nd hit of 2D~C) to do 4[]1236C afterwards.