Sophisticat

Eh, his dmg output should still be higher overall and more consistent mid-screen so yeah, it all evens out. My only nitpick is that damage across combos in relation to star expenditure is rather constant. I.e., there's no real burst damage present unless you start with a high p1 move and at least 5s or something. I kind of liked Haku's sometimes explosive damage of yore. But, eh... can't complain since this Haku's looking pretty strong already and there's always the corner to give you a nice boost.

Good gents of the Void, the list is updated. You may peruse the latest in combo technology this fine board has developed at your leisure. If you have any questions, any of the experts on hand may be able to answer your queries. Good reading!

We all know Eb x Avengers slash fiction is right around the block, no need to be coy.

Average combo dmg is similar to CS2, but overall damage is increased due to extra meter and added combo paths. He should now be able to combo off any hit at pretty much any time which is a far cry from his CS2 limitations. New combo from the new vids for 3c CH is: -> Renka -> IAD j.2c -> 5a -> j.2a -> AD j.2a -> j.C. Lovely. I don't see why he wouldn't be S-Tier aside from other characters simply being better. He's pretty much got everything he needs to win now; if you lose you either got outplayed or you suck. What more could you want? A command grab?

Wow, thanks for the work Indigo! I don't think I have any qualms with this update, so I'll put it up once we have everyone's approval. I especially like the idea of a distinct post for notes and such. It keeps it nice and clean. Good stuff! Btw, CSEX is just around the corner (coming out in Dec). I propose we keep this list and merely modify it since it seems his combos are roughly similar. Thankfully, we've done most of the work already in making this list, so we won't have to make an entirely new one.

HAKUMEN!!!!!!!! :bad: First real vids of the guy are out (and posted in the Haku forums if you want to see e'm), and I'm lovin' it. <3 Haku, you know I never left you. He'll announce the release date after appearing on Oprah.

'k, for those who said he wouldn't be S-tier, I present these vids for discussion: On to the analysis. - Extra meter is DELICIOUSNESS. - Combo off throw for the win. - 4c -> Enma -> etc. is now possible at a larger distance because of kishuu distance inscrease. - New j.B has several applications: 1) As a combo tool. It allows to extend combos and increase carry. Several combos shown in the vids take advantage of this. 2) IAD -> j.A -> j.B can now just be IAD -> j.B -> 5a -> etc. The increase in untechable time allows this to be possible so this combo just got a hell of a lot easier. Hell yeah. - New 6A also has some useful stuff: 1) As an AA. A combo I saw was something like 6a -> Gurren -> hop 5a -> 5b -> sj.B -> j.2a -> etc. 2) As a combo tool. In the corner, [stuff] -> Renka(K) -> 6c -> 6a -> loops. It permits omitting hop for 6a instead to get closer. - Several new combos which I forget. I presume the guy's using them now since we have more meter to play with so it's ok to spend a bit more. I think I like this new Hakumen. :bad:

Rejoice, fellow Hakumen. CSEX version is looking like a mo'fuking boss. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVYgU64n-gU#t=8m30s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v5B4JFDyCI First match http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4-3voavsMA All matches

Btw, how's the TV situation at Foonzo? I haven't heard anything about it since last week. Also, might come by on Thursday! I've stopped working Fridays so I'm free to be free. :D Only hitch is schoolwork. I've got a precarious balance right now what with several projects so it all depends on how they move along. The probability I come over is still high, though.

Haku doesn't even need mixup. He's designed around feints, yomi, traps, counters, etc. Work fundamentals with him and he's plenty fine in this area. Anyway, this is the only real consideration you need for his current strength: I'll clarify this point, however: His DP is Hotaru. You could say it lacks invincible startup, but eh... 4f startup is already pretty good for a move of Hotaru's strength. Average mixup is meaningless since he doesn't need it as he's not a rushdown character. He trips up the others with the above-mentioned tools. You'd be surprised how often it works even on good players. He's not the "Void" only in name; it reflects in his style as well. Also, his weakness is getting zoned or out-spaced. Lambda/Mu/Hazama trouble him plenty, as do Litchi/Ragna if you're not paying attention.

I think it's less that he's now top tier that you now get back the freedom you had in CS1. Not being limited so much by star count like in CS2 means you can do a lot more things now and that's a lot less frustrating to deal with. You don't have to constantly worry about whether or not you have enough stars or if that whiff will cost you a game-winning combo or something. Being top tier is just icing on the cake. A good player would be good regardless of Haku's level -- just look at Spark's win at EVO.

^ I agree too, BB isn't a new game anymore and CS2 -> CSEX changes aren't as drastic as in previous instalments so many characters didn't change all that much. In general, simple characters that start out strong will weaken, and initially weak though complex characters will strengthen. Just look at how disappointed the community was with Hazama's damage output in CS1... We all know what came of that. On the other hand, CS2 Makoto was top right off the bat as she didn't change much while the others were nerfed (CS1 Bang syndrome). So we can bet on Relius and maybe Litchi moving up at least a bit, and the simple characters (*cough* Tager *cough*) moving down. Other characters like Haku will probably stay at or near the top because of a fundamental change (increased star gain) that just make them stronger overall. So I don't think the tier list is to be entirely dismissed since it's sort of a precursor of the future game. Minimal changes support this idea.

Stunedge confirmed my thoughts in that it's mostly his increased meter gain that benefits Haku. That's really his only issue in CS2 since it limits his options/damage potential, and we got extra goodies on top of that. Now we can mash Hotaru again like in CS1. I think I'll be getting serious about Haku again. :D The post:

Nooo, don't do it. Valk is still sexy as all hell! I'll keep double maining him even if just for the lulz. D:

Thanks SE, that confirms my thoughts. And whoa, 8k?! What combo is that? I'm not sure what you mean by "full combo" unless that refers to full charge 6c or something?

No prob. I'll have S^10 tier Valkenhayn to back me up in case I can't win by mashing!

Hakumen in da room. I can't wait to steamroll the community. With Haku in SSS+++ tier I could probably do it with a cup of tea in hand. It will be... Sophisticated.

Hakuman is on top like a boss. 'tis all I need. Stunedge, any reason why? My guess is the extra stars he gets from buffed cooldown after specials opens up his options again like in CS1 so we're not impeded by low star count.

Tsubaki is BOSS in the corner. Properly set up, it's one hell of an overhead. ~4.5k right off the bat without adding extra stars to the combo. Midscreen is more iffy. It's good to slide them into the corner and catch them off-guard with an overhead, but I've never been consistent on the IAD -> j.2c right after since it's so tight. So in the corner it's always had it use as a fast and damaging OH, but it's lost some practical use mid-screen. As for Zan, it should be considered in a list. Just saying that you can condense the list if you treat it like a 3c CH and add a couple lines explaining the differences. Also, Schneider should be posting moar in this thread. I was impressed with your execution and you know the Haku combos better than I do. Get crackin'! :D

You must have been mortified! :O I'll get you for that one Brice! My Gold Haku should have crushed your Tager without mercy! GG though, I'll play ya this week if I come to a meet. :D

Bunch of pedos up in here. D: JF, Eb, Bibi. <3 you guys. Keep repping proper women. <3

Nice to hear things might get resolved. What else I miss? ----- Kaeru!!! :D I might get a Honda Shadow after all. The look is just too good. I'm seeing one on Kijiji for just $800, but it might need an extra $1000. I think it's more likely that I'll be getting myself a bike next year. The funds be getting low atm. ----- I'll be getting on BB tonight. Who's up for some netplay? I'll otherwise just terrorize Ranked.

I don't believe they're being honest either, but making a move like that is plain stupid business -- and I trust they aren't dumb or else they wouldn't have opened Foonzo in the first place. So best idea is just to get straight to the point imo, and discuss what's going on. Fact is, we're going in circles here because we don't know what they're doing and we're just speculating on what's going on. That's a vicious cycle if I ever saw one. I'm not going downtown tomorrow and don't have time to either, but I'm willing to make the trip and discuss it with the owners with you guys since I think that's what we should do if we want to keep this community's skills sharp and thriving. Unless someone has a better idea atm?

I really do think we should talk to the owners ASAP to know what's really going on. Bad move on their part not notifying us about it, but there is the chance it could be an honest mistake. If not, well, time to cut a deal or find somewhere else to play. That would be sad since Foonzo's a chill place and its location is just perfect.

Eh? I thought it was temporary! D: Hell yeah, dang it! If there was an earthquake and all the MTL buildings crumbled, I'd see as an opportunity to build better (read: permanent!) roads, and invite them JP engineers to make us some hella strong skyscrapers. Even when the world's falling apart, doesn't mean you can't build something better after!