Sophisticat

Your best damage/star ratio is off 6c ch. You can do: -> 5c -> enma -> f.C combo (4.2k, 2s) -> renka(1)-Zan -> 5c -> enma -> f.C combo (~8.5k, 7s) Do gurren if you're too far out. These two combos are the best mid-screen damage/star output you can get, nearly regardless of normal starter. Mugen, I like: [Renka(1)-Zan -> Gurren -> Kishuu -> 5c] xN to push to corner. Then: [Renka(1)-Zan(1) -> Enma -> TK Tsubaki -> 5c] xN -> Shippu finisher.

!!!! I stand corrected, then. What's the damage on it? Unlikely to be viable in an actual match, though. Strict timing and low damage make it so there's probably better options after a 5a ch. J.B air-hit? ... Guess it'd work, but you'd have to be low.

My preference: Hotaru -> f.C -> 2c -> sj.2c -> AD j.2c (3.4k) You can do any combo you want off Hotaru. Yup, it links. You can't do enma off A's, but you can do A -> gurren -> enma. Not recommended in CT, but in CS it's a good combo, though you replace gurren with renka(1). Off jab I prefer going for either 3c or tick throw. I condition them to 3c, then do TK Tsubaki after a jab instead. Mix it up, and they get scared. Yes, they apply to hop. In fact, it's harder to do them off TK since you risk being a little bit too high. But just do TK fast and the 5c will link.

^ Yes, on CH you can do: 2c -> sj.2c -> AD j.2c (meterless follow-up option) 5c -> gurren -> whatever 5c -> renka-zan -> loop (corner option if going all-out) 5c -> Enma -> f.C combo (my preference. Does 5k and can push into corner)

You can do either Hotaru or Tsubaki if too low for either j.C or j.B. Haven't really experimented with this, but I think you can do any regular combo after either of those two. Tsubaki is more dependent on height, though I think you can do j.C right after one into usual air throw meterless combo. I'd have to experiment...

I'd argue that mindset is mostly irrelevant beyond a grasp of basic offense and defense. The mechanics are similar, and that's all you need. High level mind-play is very different for both games, but controlling a character is roughly similar (excluding FRC's, etc.). Both games have airdashes, "barrier" blocking, bursts, tension, etc. Combos are, at a basic level, also similar. When playing a new game, getting a grasp of the mechanics is always the first thing you do. BB mechanics are simple, yet also roughly similar. Ergo, BB is a good entry to GG. I meant "easy" as in "easy to draw in new players", which is the whole point. The actual difficulty of using the character shouldn't figure into the equation at this point. As for "easiest time learning with", well, everyone's tough to learn. What you want is to show several characters that demonstrate a rough embodiment of the basic GG character mechanics, so my list stands. Just get them started, get them interested, then they'll naturally pick up other characters and try them out. The different styles will appeal to them differently and they'll eventually settle on someone they like, difficult to learn or not. The issue here is not which character is easiest to learn, since no single character embodies all of GG. What we can do is show them characters in a form of progressive complexity until they feel fine picking up whoever. So the point of "easiest to learn" is moot. It's all about starting and being able to keep going. I don't see how a flamewar could erupt from such a discussion. Yeah, it'd be interesting.

Imo, easiest to get a newbie to play: Jam, Slayer, Sol, HOS, Ky, Pot, May, Johnny, Chipp (for some reason ), and maybe Axl. Johnny might be the odd one out, but his Mist Finers are flashy enough that everyone wants to do them and a simple combo after isn't hard. If he/she's relatively good at BB, half the cast is opened up as a "starter" character. I'd never discourage anyone from choosing someone they seem to like, but the above characters are your best bets for "easiest". Imo. I also disagree with those disagreeing on a BB -> GG transition not being possible. BB is basically GG, but really toned down. As has been said, same roots. If anyone wanted an easier game to play before getting into GG, I'd point them straight to BB.

Was arguably world's best HOS after Kaqn (to my knowledge), but I wouldn't say the same of his Haku. I get the impression he plays Haku like he was handling HOS. A bit impatient and kind of volatile. Good Haku, and fun to watch, but Suzume is top from the vids I've seen. I don't think he takes BB all that seriously.

What does Litchi have? Range? We got range too. Zoning? You have to be hit for that; some of her string are vulnerable to counters on IB. Mix-up? It's only scary in the corner, and you have ways out. Yeah, I don't see it not being even. I'm not sure being able to limit her game means we have the advantage, so that's up to debate. But it's 5-5 to me.

^ Match is 5-5, 5.5 - 4.5 at worst, whatchu talkin' 'bout? Not lopsided in any way. But yeah, approach kind of like Nu, though Litchi will try to get in more since she's mostly a zoner through her combos. Block low always. Watch out for 6a with staff, and 6c without; those are her overheads. From the air, she wants to land j.B, preferably with staff, but she'll hurt you staffless regardless. It has more range with staff, so watch out. In the corner, she'll rape just about anyone, but you have the benefit of counters if you know what's coming. Wait out for her combo to finish, then block low. Punish with 6b -> kishuu under for a "reversal" -> corner combo if she goes for a low, counter the overhead (likely 5d to her 2nd hit of 6c), and TK hotaru if she goes for an air hit. Yukikaze punch super or practice like mad to block what's coming because you're otherwise stuck. Not much more to say here. Just don't get caught by her regular starters, know your options for getting out, and punish her for trying to get in a hit.

Seriously. You can sum up this match-up in one combo: Mash C -> Pray. You only have 5 frames to pray, btw. So make it count.

Oh yeah, new loop's updated look is pretty sexy, but, for me, it's all about 6C. I'll be making 6C combos first thing Once I get my mits on CS. 'tis a shame Haku'll probably be nerfed a bit for console CS, though. I want to play him in this form, dammit! EDIT: Re-watching the video for the first time since Jan, I noticed Tsubaki -> 5c -> enma -> falling.C does ~5k when it does exactly 4.7k in CT if I recall. Going to have to test what other stuff went up...

Then let us never utter his name again.

I see. Yeah, I'll judge it for myself once CS is out on console, but your post isn't very reassuring whatever the case. BB's the only fighter I like/have access to at this point in time, so I really hope it comes out well for console. : /

How about Shadow? He strikes me as having a good Haku, but I don't think he has the potential to be among the better ones. I could be wrong, though. That said, I've found plenty of A-92 CT vids, but there is a lack of CS in there. Does he not play that much? His most recent vids aren't enough for me to get a good grasp of his current style...

^ That's all about getting used to stick. Personally, it's not for me, so I'm sticking to pad for life! For throws, you can do tick throws to punish mashers. Otherwise, I do it when the dude is close and I anticipate him using something other than a poke or a DP.

@Psycofang: Analysis! We only had three matches, but that's plenty. Here goes. First, the good stuff. - Good poking game. You go SF-style, so this should be your strong point. - Good punishing. If you land a hit, you go for the combo. I haven't seen you miss a follow-up. - Good up-close traps. In general, your Haku is a solid close-range fighter. You're hard to punish when committing to a poking game and the opponent can make the mistaking of thinking he can retaliate, but you hit him out of it. However, your Haku remains unpolished in other areas. Namely: - Upgrade your combos. The one thing you'll notice about mine was that I always go for the most damage out of the least amount of stars. Zantetsu hits hard, but it does cost 3 stars when you could use a combo that nets you more bang for your buck. Also, Hotaru is bad as anything other than a starter in combos. Sticking it at the end of a combo is a waste of stars by then. Another thing, using multiple guren in a row is bad for herding. If you need to push the guy into the corner, do something like guren -> kishuu -> 2c -> j.2c -> AD j.2c instead. I use falling.C combo after a guren, as you'll recall. That's the way I do it. - Use of Hotaru. It's a great move, but you have to know when to use it. TK when the other guy is on top of you, or hop Hotaru to bait his attack and punish. Use more as a reversal/punish tool than an offensive one. - You don't necessarily have to commit to an attack when getting in. The reason I hit you with 6a so much was because you didn't cancel with j.D or bait it with something else. 6a is great anti-air, but it has a lot of recovery. Punish me for being reactionary. In short, you need better combos, and be aware that while your strong point is your close game, it can get predictable and I'll hurt you for it. A close game isn't just an offense; it's also about baiting the other's retaliation and punishing him for it. Good shit, though. You're strong already, you just need polishing. Refine your Haku and you'll be keeping your opponent on his toes at all times.

Excellent! I was wondering recently whether a similar breakdown to the GG one would ever be applied and Lo and Behold! SJ lives up to the hype! I used to love reading that stuff when I started out on GG back in spring of '08. I'm going to love doing it here. Awesome stuff!

Haha, more like I suck with Litchi. She's not easy to be effective with. But yeah, I guess I am in the position of being good for training. Psycho, I'll take you on, but it'll have to wait until later this week, if you're fine with that.

This should have been posted in the Haku general thread, then, unless you're looking for Litchi-specific stuff? Well, if you could post how the matches went, or if you could upload a vid, it'd help a lot. We can tell you how to go up vs. Litchi, but we first need to know what you know and look to improve it. What combo to use when is about landing the right move or off random hits. If you land something, then you do the best available combo given the amount of stars you have and the other's HP.

Haku doesn't need char. specific stuff since his combos hit everyone with some exceptions regarding shippu and Haku mirrors, and Carl. Psycho, I'll play you. I barely play online anymore, but I'm down with helping out others or doing some casuals. Now, as to the wall up there, lots of corrections: - Enma -> j.2c -> [wtv] is no-no waste of meter. Do the full falling.C combo. - Don't start a combo with Zan. Good players block it all the time. - Only combo you do after enma is falling.C. Only shippu for the kill/desperation damage. And what's this about the air grab? It looks like some sort of scrub tactic, no offense. - Keep in-combo grab it for the end of a combo like after AD j.2c. Also, if it hits, you do f.C -> 2c -> j.2c -> Ad j.2c since it's meterless. - Air tech is punishable by Hotaru. Better option than j.B. You beat Carl's throw loop by breaking the throw and doing j.D. If he goes for non-throw version, no choice but to eat it. The Carl match-up revolves around spacing him from Nirvana. Get out of sandwich anyway you can. But if you're in it, you can 6D/2D his stuff. Look for his AD -> overhead and Nirvana's arm swing for counter moments. His gameplan revolves around trying to poke you into loop, so make judicious use of invincibility on 6a and 6b, and use 2a, and 2d to beat his up-close stuff and retaliate. Also learn to block his strings since he's got the game's most evil set of mix-ups, and he'll cross you up whenever you least expect it. Well, gone off-topic for the combo thread, but stuff needed to be rectified.

Ah, CT then. Yup, you can do it. You just have to hit the f.C at the lowest possible point, and while you might have to delay the 5c a bit, it should connect. It's not really practical since you need stars to combo further, but it's cool that you can do it, I suppose.

You mean you went [starter] -> enma -> f.C -> 5c -> [etc.], and I'm assuming you're talking about CS? Yeah, you can do it. You can even do -> f.C -> 5c -> 2c link. Or even 2x 5c because of the changes to C move frames. Timing is, as far as I know, not entirely strict because of the buffer, but it's known to be a link just going by frames.