Darlos9D

I'm aware I've been here since CT. And to all that I say: good riddance. I stand by my statement.

I was never keen on using a burst making you more vulnerable anyway. You're already spending a precious resource to do it with. Why take more stuff away? Guilty Gear never did that, that I'm aware of.

Terumi not having an overhead is like Tager not having an anti-air.

So I'm useless outside of translating katakana, but... Something about 3C > A sledge > 5C? Likewise, something about B sledge > 5C > 6A. Maybe sledge really picks people off the ground now? I see "6Bor3C" getting mentioned on the line for atomic collider. Possible legit links?

itc TagerTime calls some folks out

Are 6B's startup frames really similar to anything else? Also the startup to 6C is similar to the startup of MTW, lol Anyway overheads are supposed to be at least somewhat reactable, so I don't really see the issue here.

You sure? That 6C looks pretty quick to me. It might be misleading when it comes right after the new 6B, but honestly I think this new 6C looks as fast as current 6B. Honestly with a dedicated grappler I'm not sure how much I care about losing a short-ranged overhead. We've got a low/throw mixup already. That's not exactly one of his weak points.

@just some guy: did you read what Tager Time said? 6C is faster now.... I guess? Though I have to admit that, from a visual standpoint, 6B not being overhead is kinda misleading... but hey, at least its not a low like CT Hakumen 6B, lol. At any rate I'll take it if it gives us a faster 6C. Whether it forces crouch or bounces that's a solid attack to hit with. Also its a far-reaching attack. If 6C becomes fast enough to be a viable ranged poke of sorts that could be neat. That bounce on B driver is just... lol. Also the new pulldown on 6A... I imagine if you cancel into something you can hit them off the ground it looks like. Like, do A sledge, or 3C. Could lead to some neat combos. Also I like the idea of OD granting a bunch of super armor. It really turns OD into CLOBBERIN TIME.

Oh we're talking about the new version info. Was confused since this is an older thread.

Wasn't that always a thing?

This. Hell, even just the anti-air. I'd come crashing back into BlazBlue like the fist of an angry god.

This conversation. I'm somewhat ashamed to have been a part of it. Because I just KNOW I can keep on getting mad and arguing.

Listen I said it and I'll say it again: start holding Up BEFORE you actually finish recovering from the neutral tech. Keep holding it. DON'T LET GO. If you got thrown upon recovering, you didn't do it right. There is no specific situation that ignores the rules of the rest of the game. Go into training mode. Using the dummy action recorder, set up a situation where a character knocks you down, and then tries to throw you upon recovery. Then just practice that shit. I swear to you you'll quickly find it easy.

I tried, guys. I really did. Raziul, you don't actually know what you're talking about. Like seriously, stop being mad for three seconds and actually read what we're saying. You CAN jump out of command throws the moment you recover from a neutral ground tech. Just start holding up while you're teching and keep holding it until you jump, and your character will jump as soon as possible, and not get thrown. And don't suggest we're wrong about that because this is literally a mechanic that is universal to just about every traditional 2D fighter out there and we have a ton of experience with this sort of thing! One thing I will say that is kinda-sorta in your defense though: the notion of frame 1 throw invuln in jump startup isn't the most obvious and intuitive thing for people new to fighting games. (I mean, jumping or not, it LOOKS like the throw should catch you, right?) However that doesn't excuse you ignoring people who literally spell it out for you.

First this is kind of an outdated thread. Though maybe you're actually playing CP 1.0 for some reason? Second, here's the breakdown: If you're on the ground and you think 360 or 720 is coming, JUMP GYPSY. Jumping avoids throws from frame 1 even if it looks like you're still on or near the ground. If you're stunned in the air and about to recover and you think an Atomic Collider or jumping 360 is coming, neutral tech. (i.e. tech without holding left or right) Your character will quickly drop to the ground and Tager's move won't stop you from doing so. Or, in either case, you can do something with startup invulnerability (inferno divider, etc.)

Shit this is weird. I feel like I used to be the optimistic guy. What happened to me. After my last tirade, I went to the CP vidoes thread to see if anybody in Japan was even playing Tager. Turns out that UNDER guy completely roflstomped the last Tachikawa with Tager. Every time I thought "this is the matchup where he gets bodied" he pulled off an impressive win. Hell I even learned a trick on how to deal with Tsubaki's DP watching him. Sure a lot of that is on UNDER rather than Tager, but I guess it made me feel a little better. Sigh. Maybe I'll come back someday soon-ish. I just got a lot on my plate because I like too many things.

Right. Look, I commend your attitude of "work with what you have." It's a good attitude to have in fighting games. Or anything really. But really, how long do you think I have had that attitude with Tager? I've been playing him exclusively since CT. I've been working with what I had for as long as possible. And that wasn't much, but I kept playing anyway. But now, it's not just that I'm tired of him having about half as much as everyone else in the game. It's that for a short glimmering time it felt like, yeah, maybe he can be not terrible for once. And then I was quickly and harshly reminded that, no, he's supposed to suck on purpose. I really don't care if what he's left with after the nerf is still workable on some level, it's still a dumb thing that shouldn't have happened. And until further notice I'm not hopeful that any great decisions will be made for him in the future either. Like for instance I KNOW he won't ever have any kind of a viable anti-air, in a game where threats constantly come at you from the air and everybody fucking else has one. And it's not like it's just Tager either. I'm sure other characters have gone through more dumb inexplicable changes than I even realize. The minds behind BlazBlue's gameplay have always seemed a tad sketch, and I think I finally have to admit that that's just the way its gonna be and stop hoping for real tangible positive change. I mean it's sad when I sit here and think - and this is quite arguable of course - that if you pulled Hugo out of USF4 and plopped him into BlazBlue he'd probably be better at being a grappler than Tager. A fucking Street Fighter character. That's garbage.

Yeah honestly that's the thing that keeps me from coming back. The raw nerf to 2k off of 5A is fine. Hell I'd almost say its fair. But I'd really gotten used to the fact that you could toss out a 5A, and basically not have to worry about whether or not they blocked it or it hit them until you reached 5C, or hell even 6A. Now you have to realize that before 5B even lands. Which isn't impossible, but dangit, I already have enough shit to meticulously think about when playing Tager I don't need that too. Before it was kinda fun to land a GF, toss out a 5A, and then see what happens. Now it just kinda feels like an awkward pain. I feel like whoever made that decision just wanted to "show off" CP's variable "combo time based on combo starter" by changing it for some attacks in this update. Either that or he seriously felt like Tager's pressure was too simple. Why couldn't they have just nerfed 5A's P1... Really after that, the backdash nerf just feels like an extra kick in the shin. And more than that it's just the principle of the thing. Tager was shit in CT, but at least he did damage. Then in CS he started as complete and utter shit, but then gradually crawled back out of the hole in both terms of damage and utility over the course of several iterations, until finally we got to CP and he was actually competative. But only just so. The last fucking thing he needed was ANY kind of nerf. I just don't understand it.

I still stand by my complaint that any character with good midrange pokes essentially becomes an unsledgeable zoner against Tager. Or at least it turns into a unfavorable footsies situation in a game where it doesn't seem like footsies should even be a thing. I understand having a hard time with an actual zoner. That's just a balancing thing thats baically built into the archetype. It's getting rolled over by supposed "close range" characters that really drives me up a wall. We should at least be even in those scenarios, but we aren't. It's like, yeah, I agree that Tager has some decent ranged poke options. But for a guy his size and strength (i.e. the ability to make his massive bulk move) he should have some of the better ones in the game I think. Dude needs to lean forward more or something. Also god damn his continued lack of a real anti-air.

This is sort of what gets my goat with Tager. There are characters that can literally turn into melee zoners against Tager since he has zero response to melee attacks with good reach. Ragna is one of those characters. A smart Ragna is damn near untouchable. Like yeah it's not impossible, but damn son. And now if we could ever backdash any of his air attacks, we sure can't now. He'll just land and punish the backdash. Backdash is only really good for baiting DP. Which is actually easier with the extra invuln frames, but eh. I could be wrong about that? I'd like to be. Seriously, without a good midrange poke or grab or something with armor... what does Tager even do here?

Are "far below averge" and "godlike" the only two options? Also I never like feeling like I won just because my opponent is fucking up.

I've given up on Tager and, subsequently, this whole game. I'm on strike until my archetype doesn't suck. ::proceeds to buy xrd like a hypocrite::

Just... don't get counterhit by his 3C. ::shudders::

ICPM can be used as sort of a ghetto air dash if you YRC it right before you get to the enemy or ground. Not sure on its useful properties in air-to-air. I also dunno about his crouching fireburst attack. I feel like he relies super heavily on YRC to really flip out the opponent in close range. Also, this might be kinda hard to execute for a schlub like me, but one could do something like combine YRC with hammer fall to eat multiple hits. Like, do hammer fall, get hit once, YRC, and use hammer fall again to keep moving and eat another hit. Unfortunately his tools in general feel a tad lacking. Heat Knuckle doesn't drop opponents in front of you anymore if you don't extend, and pot buster does so little damage now They just made his actual throws less threatening and that's weird. Then again, at least he isn't Tager and he has actual fucking anti-airs.

Yeah, and on top of that Pot sucking could just be first installment weirdness. Because let's face it Xrd is basically the start of a brand new series. I hold at least some hope that by Gulity Gear Xrd Ballbuster Insignia ++ Ephemeral Shock %100020, Pot might actually be decent again. Mori and friends have had their fucking chance with Tager though. At this point I seriously don't blame anyone for dropping him. Or BlazBlue for that matter. I know my last post was basically me trying to be an apologist about the backdash changes, but that's just me. I try to look at the positive as much as possible. But even I have my limits and I now see how dumb these changes are. We've got a large slow moving target with middling reach and no good armor, reversals, or anti-airs outside of supers, and his meter gain is moderate at best. Good fucking job Arcsys you pushed me over the edge. Christ.