Alex073088

you guys should be posting alot of this stuff in teh rachel vs hazama cs thread ^.^. There's alot of really useful information in every single post.

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html this no longer works or something? it wont bring the videos up for some reason. edit: just change it to search by tag. From the video it looks like your at a very good amount of frame advantage when you tk sword iris. i say this because uate got a purple throw after doing so and he was about 4 character spaces away from the lambda player. Also j2.c>lobelia a i think nets you a bit of pressure on block and also on hit.

Today i fought a player named lord qua, and his litchi's pressure was alot different from other litchis pressure that im use to. he basically is playing cs litchi in ct, however the rod sets arent as fast of course. Anyway, i just wanted to post a new mix-up that was catching me due to not wanted to anti-air or jump when she was in range to j.b. theres a moves where she twirls the stick downward from the sky with herself rapped around it. she can instant cross you up with it, rapid on landing and get a nasty combo for doing so. I didnt see any player in the room block it and everyone was at a very good skill level. So just be on your toes i guess if shes hovering above your head ^.^

pumpkin frog can easyly be slegded through in the very same match-up, or super jump-ed over. if tager blocks a frog wtf do you get for it in cs? You dont get shit because rachels rushdown has been destroyed. In fact he would get free meter from instant blocking its 8 hits. zoning was improved imo, air sword iris makes it tough for tager to punish you on the ground while activating rods when need be. And lobelias have shorter recovery in all forms making it harder for him to nail sledge on you and allowing you to keep your ground a little bit more easyly. No tager at a high level should be sledging in ct a point where its obvious they will get punished for it. espically by rachels 6b. frog and pumpkin were better rushdown tools then zoning.

i have had sledge trade hits with fork on a few occasions, in this is situation both characters are in long stun. no good tagers will allow rachel to fork them doing slegde. right there that should tell you something in terms of your decision when in this match-up. fork should be done in anticipation of slegde. not when its stupid obvious. However using the pumpkin to punish sledge is something different. i normally punish sledge from a far using the pumpkin which i caught chance wizards tager with occasionly. from a distance he normally just j.2c the frog if there arent any rods near him full screen. if ever mag i definitley will 2c if i see 2d coming. your going off topic, this isnt about alz and listening to him to is once again rachel vs tager thread. please stay on topic

Thank you im glad you have had a chance to play this guy, im not suggesting that we dont have the advantage or anything. but when you go up against this guy its like all this low tier madness goes out the window. i did mentioned its sorta like ruu as bridget in guilty gear. Rachel throw range is crap, i would say worst throw range in the game(tager having the best). also rachel's 5a is slower then most characters 5a's are if not everyones 5a. they did increase start-up in cs though. I think people dont realize that we are usin characters that are bad under pressure, which is also a flaw that carries over to cs. so inorder to prevent losing to this significant disadvantage, we have to be given good tools to help prevent it. not broken tools but useful ones.(hmm wonder what happened to cs rachel tools lol)

dude the 2d while magantized thing(which he does mostly after a blocked spark bolt), i tried to punish it on reaction over and over, with those moves, fork was getting beat out, lobelia was either getting beat out or trading infavorably, 5b has no range so i didnt use that at all. And 2c is already risky enough, i didnt try it against tha tmove though. And dude my defense is pretty good, you can not block tick throws. overheads are not an issue. with rachel getting outside pressure, and tick throws is what makes being magnatized very hard to deal with. which is fine. Most of the things i posted in that post where options he had while magnatized, tech traps, tick throws, and things he can do while blocking your pressure. I use the frog alot, during pressure. the things i bring up are about when you not longer can get the frog out because tager is no longer allowing you to. To top that off, after he instant blocked the frog and a few strings he was alread counter assulting me which gave him free magantism. I never ever 44d, but i guess in cs it be something your going to have to do more often to get away.

lol being as though your on xboxlive i would suggest you looking up chancewizard and playing a good number of matches. the turntablist also plays nu, and hes incredibly good with nu. he generally beats me more then i beat him. He also had a very rough run against chance wizards tager. the reason why rachel has a tough time during magnatized pressure is because of the follow: * Her normals are too short ranged and come out much to slow. * rachel doesnt have good mobilty options like nu does, rachel back dash can be easyly puninshed by 5d for a long untechable knockdown, from this point tager can super jump his away over and meet you for a j.d right on your tech. or if you tech roll a free command throw or 720. * firing a lobelia grants and infavorable trade. or when i tried shooting out a lobelia+a it was just flat beat out by tagers shit. * because we dont have dp's or moves of invincbility what so ever, things like 5d> sledge+b>5a>mix-up become very tough to get out of. * rachel is alot more floaty then the other character in the game are, allowing atomic collider to get her much easyly. espically if your the type of player who tries to jump to get out of pressure. * when magnatized about midscreen, tagers ground cannon move was beating alot of shit i was throwing out. espcially after about a little bit past midscreen, blocked spark bolt into that move. * in order for rachel to be allowed to rush tager tager or zone him she needs pumpkin, when your constantly being pull back into normals that do alot of guard stun, and command throw set-ups your not given the space to get free to have a fighting chance. *his strings, hes like this stomp which is a low(6b), then into a move where he lounges forward with two arms thats combos after it(6c), then 5d, which pulls you right back into him for some more shit. * when magantized its very tough to get away, and rachel needs a knockdown or some space to get started again. if shes not given this then you wont be able to fight back unless your opponent becomes predictable or sloppy. Granted almost every single tager until i ran into chance wizard did not know how to take advantage of magnatism. Summary of things that were troublesome against tager: *counter assult will reck you. it puts you right by his feet, allowing him to magnatize you. * magnatized against a good player equals terror. * 6c+plus wind on block only really nets him free meter for instant blocking it, and is unsafe. You can make it safe by jump cancel, however, while magantized this is stil unsafe expect to atleast be blocking afterward. *j.d is hard to anti-air safer to use wind and lobelia when its obvious players are going to super jump and go for this. * tager instant blocking can become very dangerous, 5b> anything else but jump cancel is a free 360 or 720 * 5b>j.2c can be backdash and then punished by tager *tech roll can canceling into command throw is gay, but you can punish his command thorw attempt with j.2c * tagers 5d, 6a, j.d, 2d are good tools that are stupid hard to interpupt when caught in the corner magnatized. * tager's 5a beats your normals inside at close range, and 4b is an incredibly good space tool tager has that has very good recovery and out ranges alot of rachels normals. * an instant blocked j.2c>5b or 2b> can be punished by 360 or 720> or a simple back dash works in his favor severely when done in the corner. Tech trap set-ups that lead into 720/360* * j.b>you block>he lands 720* or 360*. * your knockdown by i his 3c(two hands trip you), he j.2c because you didnt immediatley tech, you tech to avoid further damage from j.2c. he 720* or 360*. * He bursts you, while your magnatized. you tech immediatley. he atomic colliders you into an automatic 720 or 360 that you cant escape. i fell for this a few times an lost rounds i should have won because of this. * Nu player fell for this one, tager is right by you on a knockdown, your magnatized. he command throws in place(whiffs), you tech roll the other way he command throws catching your tech away from the corner. * obvious one that no one falls for, spark bolt he jumps you tech you get 720. not a good one but might as well list it. *5a on block >720 or 360 when magnatized * some low normal(2b) where he kicks you while ducking down, is a certain amount of plus on block that allow for a tick throw un magnatized.

@ flying ve, Dude i appreciate you coming along and posting. most of the players here that are posting are form the psn network, so they havent faced him yet. Dude it may seem easy to you using tager's j.d against rachel 6a, but its not as easy it it may seem. I been using rachel since july of 09 and im well aware of when i can and cannot 6a due to match experince. The only reason why i take damage from tagers j.d in the first place is by listening to players and attempting to so easyly and brokenly 6a him out the sky when i know thats what hes going to be doing. I get hit well more times attempting to 6a him then he gets anti-aired. Infact once i actually was suprised when it worked but i got magnatized anyway. Im not denying rachel has options to shut tager down. but inorder to begin any of these options she needs space inorder to do so, when not given the space the match against any character rachel fights against gets very difficult very quickly. @ atg warlord, Im well aware of rachel having the advantage over tager. When i first posted in this thread about my matches against chance wizard i was doing it only to give rachel players a heads up on some tactics tager has that can really shut you down. Pretty much, rachel best pressure in the game rushdown (tagers counter) dead angle, instant block back dash or 360/720 Rachels zoning (tagers counter) super jumping/spark bolt/properly spaced sledge. Although there's more that i will summarize in another post. @alzarath When ever i play patiently espically when full screen , and tager has spark bolt they normally just continue walking toward me or super jumping toward because i now have very few options. if im rushing him down, spark bolt would not be a threat. thats why i choose to rush him down. although that becomes difficult against an incredibly good instant blocking tager. 5d(tager)>instant block> he could just bait the cat chait which has happened. you have to activate the chair as soon as you instant block because if you do it later you will get hit on counter because of poor start-up. He also doesnt have to sledge he can just threathen you with his magnatized normals and pull you closer and closer.i have tried forking, lobelia a, 5a, 2a, 6a when given three character spaces away from tager during magnatism. In those efforts i normal trade infavorly or get flat beaten out. Both of you(flying ve and atg warlord) are actually right when it comes to tager guessing rachel out. The matches became more difficult as we played more and more. The biggest thing you have to take into consideration is that guessing right can really destroy the match for anyone espcially character with no ways out of pressure. rachel magnatized is incredibly difficult to deal with. even more horrid when in the corner.

so i talked to a few high level players in the xboxlive community, and they have all had tough time against this guys tager. Voiidd mentioned he was in his opinion the best tager on xboxlive. You guys havent played a tager of this calibur so i can understand why ya'll feel like that match is so free. all you have to do is this and that and no worries. just like we have options he also has options. Tager is not hopeless against rachels zoning. air lobelia's and loeblia b and c have incredible periods of recovery giving him free slegde at a little bit past mid screen distance. after each rod is activate on block, more have to be placed down allowing him time to close the distance on you. the only way to saftely zone longer is by moving far away from him. if you continue to consistently travel around through the air to keep away from him you wind will not be charging and eventually tager will close the distance via super jumping or spark bolt. you dont even have the wind to fight back. when tager is in the air his JUMP D IS ONE OF THOSE MOVES YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A DIFFICULT TIME ANTI-AIRING. also you are magnatized from contact regardless if successful anti-aired. 6b with rachel has to be done earlier then a reaction time inorder to cleanly beat out tager. If done after seeing him do something you run the risk of be hit before it fully comes out. and dude 5a rapes 6b, if your outside 5a he wont use it. he will go for a properly space 5d.

okay, when i use j.2c, offcourse off 5b>j.2c this gets backdash sometimes, and when it does you get hurt for it. After a 3c>frog> i go for j.2c without wind to meaty it, and avoid a command throw, slegde, standard grab bullshit and 5a beats that, afterward i get comboed into atomic collider. 5b>airdash>cross-up j.2c>j.c works sometimes. if hes mashing i think his 2c where he swings his arms upward nails you right for doing it. He can also instant block j.c>command throw 5b. Using wing plus j.2c from above his head, on some occasions i got 720 after landing for a 5b, on others he was hit instead for mashing something. I stop going for j2.c and started doing>5b>jump cancel>8>2d>2b>5b>5cc+wind after he began blocking 4b. and backdashing j.2c after 5b on block. now i always rush down with rachel always alwasys, zoning takes to long to set-up and he can counter it very well. When i attempted to zone after backdashing to throw a lobelia a, or lobelia b he instantly sledge by reacting to my back dash. sometimes when reacting to my backdash he super jumped, j.headbutt then j.d... tagers j.d comes out super fast and its hard to anti-air that move. i did actually get with it once and i was still magnatized afterward. I tried throwing a lobelia b+wind after back dashing and the same tactic counter it. j.c works okay but you dont get much on block for it at all. Rachel zoning espically in this match gets you no where. if it has for you then im honestly telling you that you can not have faced high level tagers. You cant even get away with zoning solbadass tager. The same tager(chance wizard) i faced beat the shit out of this high level nu player(the turntablist), an nu's zoning is much better then ours. If tager is full screen he will likely charge spark bolt in different variation and when he has this move your zoning doesnt mean shit. all they have to do is react you and you will either get hit on block or actually get hit. Im not staying full screen from tager, im not that patient, and i hate when my options are good due to him having spark bolt charge so whenever possible i would like to rush him. Sorry for long pst discussion on this. rachel does not have nu's backdash. Tager vs rachel opening counters Rachel normals (not fork) against tager grounded head on> his counter 5a, or his normal where he shoots out both his arms toward you. Rachels fork> tager jumps over it or 5a's Rachel jumps away>tager jump toward rachel with and air throw/j.d/j.headbutt Rachel backdashes then forks>tager sledges b hitting you out of your fork on counter. Rachel jumps and summons a pumpkin(my personal favorite) tager continueously stays air born to prevent being hit meaning anything while airborn. Rachel summons pumpkin winds it toward him> tager is on the ground ib> command throw the horror begins. Rachel constantly backdash and back jumping away>tager gets her in the corner. Rachel forks while standing in place>tager walks and commands throws your extended frame from afar. All of these are legit. its not hard to rush down, low level medicore or even advanced players down at all with rachel if you know what your doing. but in the the rare case you find a instant blocking everything backdash, command throw, 720, tech punishing, good pressuring tager yea, you probabdly would want to sit back and back dash around all day and shoot out lobelia's. but this is ct rachel with the best pressure in the game. tager is not defensless as some would suggest and has ways to counter some of your attempts to lock him down. lol his counter assult recks rachel it shuts all that shit down and he has the advantage. Being pushed back into the corner when you finally get to punsh something reckless, and have to endure magnatized pressure even more really blows.im going to see if i can get the guy to make an account and come in and post his thoughts of our matches. As i mentioned before i wasnt he only one losing cough nu, and some high level ragna. I had a much easier time dealing with ragna then tager, and ragna's j.c and j.b are so good. all he really has to do is super jump barrier get in from start. i will say that ragna has more options then tager, but tager isnt a sitting duck in the beginning of the round. you also have to be careful with rachels zoning in this match, there are huge holes when shooting out lobelia's and you cannot use pumpkin to cover you if he slegdes. Also omg, tager tech roll into command throw cancel is gay he did this once to me from bout midsceeen. right after a sword iris knockdown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehzIz_in570&playnext_from=TL&videos=t1xuCHJQDaI&feature=sub bang is so broken with his 5a, and 7310 damage while in his foribben form.

i generally dont have a hard time with it. but this very same tager was owning this high level nu player. He punished very very good, doing block strings on him while he was instant blocking was giving him an advantage, and trying to retreat was out of the question. i mentioned all the things that work good against rachel, and theres no real way to counter them. Also to add, watch out for command throw whiff, tech rolls away from corner, command throw again while magantized this caught the nu player. also j.b(you block) he lands 720 The reason the match got very hard because it was incredibly tough to pressure him, and if i did lay pressure on him he would just gain the tension needed to shut my rush down by counter assulting me into a knockdown at his feet taking full advantage of it by magnatizing me and not letting me getting away. everytime i though i had space to counter attack his magnatism plus attacking, he beat out all of my moves. Cat chair was not helping at all due to its poor start-up. his 5a was recking my life, 5a comboed into something then into atomic collider the more magnatism horror during jump out attempts or attempts to attack from the sky. You guys really should play him he's incredibly good with tager. im very good with rachel myself, but his tager gave me some shit today. Its very tough getting away from him. and out of corner plus magntaism pressure. If you just sit there he can pick between tick command throw, through 5a, or 2b. or catch your jump out with atomic collider. In the beginning of the round it was hard trying to get my offense started he would just rush right in. tager does have a shit load more options to counter you in the beginning of the round then you do. and all he has to do is react to what your doing. now there were times that i fuckin recked his world, and slaughtered him clean. however when he started pressuring me i had no options. rachel is horrible on the defense he was abusing shit that he can not do on other characters. Like 5d>slegde+b bullshit. j.d or j. and head butt. spark bolt into that move that he does this ground cannon toward you, i tried to punish directly afterward(blocking spark bolt) with many things and i got hit each time. He does not do things that u can obviously fork easyly, if i landed it in was in previous knowledge of playing him over and over from when he would normally attempt to sledge things. he also does not waste spark bolt. whenever he used it, it connected on everyone in that room everytime. He was an incredibly skill player. a very very rare bridget ruu kinda player. another tager at a high level join and i raped him silly. but chance wizard's tager was doing quite a bit of top tier raping today. Which goes back to what i previously mentioned before, cs rachel is worst then tager. we do not have set-ups that lead to huge damage like he does. we can not instant block backdash and deliver a large amount of damage because of it either. we do not have pressure like he does with command throws. we dont have shit, and that same jump in attacks that people abuse on tager in ct, can be done on rachel in both games. anyway im done just wanted to share an experince i had today in this match. (if rachel was so broken why cant i use my broken ways to get out of pressure?)