FlyingVe

Neutral is something different from zoning. LK suggests that if you lose at neutral you can fall back to a zoning stance. Also, these are not matchups... so how easy the matchup is may or may not be related (though there's a good chance it is). How difficult to zone someone is also a related, though different issue. Hazama is that nightmare case the LK talked about where a character beats you at neutral AND out zones you, while Bang and Tao beat you at Neutral and are almost un-zone-able. Edit: In an attempt to clarify, I hope, Neutral is how easy it is for one character to gain an advantage. For a character like lambda, this means GTFO, so how hard is it for her to set up her advantages positioning. For Ragna, it's how to GTFI, if you follow.

This question and response was posted in another thread, and I think it would be a really good thing to discuss: This is something that I do not have entirely figured out myself becaus Mu's Zoning and Neutral game are so unusual. I put forth this list, feel free to disagree: Characters where we win the neutral game: Tager, Carl, Arakune, Rachel, Valkenhayne, Characters where we lose the neutral: Hazama, Hakumen, Taokaka, Litchi, Bang, Jin, Makoto Characters we go even with in neutral: Noel, Tsubaki, Ragna, Lambda I could be way off base or forgetting something, so I want to know what everybody thinks. This is really important for Mu's game, i feel.

Don't confuse unpredictable with random. The steins in and of themselves are not that good. Always be planing for 236D or 214D as those control space much better than just steins. So, I think a planned approach is best. Mu's lasers do a phenomenal job of controlling large portions of the screen. Exploit that. Unpredictability only really works when your opponent doesn't understand the steins, which will be less of an issue as they play the matchup more. Steins are to slow to really test someones reactions.

This is why Mu is so hard. What is the correct spacing varies on a match-up by matchup basis. For example, You can hold Ragna at fullscreen with a wall of lasers and C, but against Noel (who can move much faster), you ideal range is different. This is something that I don't have down for all the cast, but I feel that you need to treat each match-up differently. Also, I don't want to downplay the oki too much. There are some characters that I would much rather oki than space out (Hazama, Bang, Carl, and Kune come to mind). In addition, by going into a setup you can change the flow and rhythm of the match and kill somebody off or make an epic comeback. I just recommend that you don't rely on oki or you stuff. In other words, it pays to play lame.

I regards to CS1 Mu. It depends on what you want, in my humble opinion, Mu is the very worst character that isn't bad. As such, I don't think you could really win a major tournament with her. To much guess work, and despite having a great matchup against Carl and Kune, the other High tiers shit on Mu pretty bad. Also, CS2 Mu is all about spacing, a little known secret is... so is CS1 Mu. Alot of players are way to into the oki tricks and mix-up and get whooped when it doesn't work.

It is not explicitly confirmed, but given that Plat was never in CS1, it holds to reason that they will be coming together or near each other. Which means march sometime.

I don't the machtups and strats will change a huge amount.

However, as soon as he gets meter, trying stuff to break primers just isn't worth it. This matchup is so uphill, that risking getting set back 5k is never worth it. Also, you can exploit hotenjin's blind spot to play some games. The blind spot it above Haz, this is also true of ID.

Also, this is a match where I would rather do oki combo enders than zoning enders. It's way to easy for Haz to either weave through the lasers or just flat out zone you.

Hone dat yomi. Also, I've been seeing some stuff in CS2 that makes it easier to cover 6B with laser fire. The new stein timings rock. Somebody at ArkSys likes Mu.

Canceling into SoD will usually get you DP'd. Backdash is really your safest option if it get's blocked (especially if they are braindead DPing). This is a little less of a problem in CS2 because the risk reward on 6B is alot better.

6C will punish a blocked hotenjin outside of the corner. The risk reward in this match-up is all fucked up.

I just saw this one today, but it's a pretty big buff: j2C>Dash2B (On crouching opponent)

I want a bang poke. Besides, on an immobile character like Tager it would be totally different.

You have a 2A that's just as good.

I really want this. I'm tired of getting in on characters only to realize that I am now in THEIR ideal range. Tager needs some manner of mobility (sledge break, double jump, whatever) more than a free way in on zoners. Tager is a grappler, he is going to, and should be zoned. I seems like some of you want an "answer" to zoning and I don't think that wouldn't be very healthy for the game or character. Unfortunately, most of the BB cast have some really good zoning tools (pokes, projectiles, etc...). Note - projectile invul spark would only be a tweak to make the move do what it's supposed to do in the first place...

Wow, so there is more Mu info on the wikia than anybody else. Way to go zeromus!

Make Gadget give a heck of alot more frame advantage and we could have something to work with (other than the blind guess we get now). Also, Mashing out of ASledge (-2) is reasonable. It beats everything that isn't 360A/720. Giving Tager an anti-jump game would still be a needed improvement, even thought it doesn't solve anything. Personally, I'm of the opinion that if they just took out the 720, it would force them to design the character in such a way that he could win without it ala potemkin, Abel, or Alex (hopefully). @Axis: I think what Heroic meant by hell fang is that we would actually get something off out normal hits. As it stands Tager spends all his time fishing for really specific hits.

The difference is, a 10 star hotaru combo is combo movie stuff, but 10k in curse is a match to match reality.

We're sending him a copy too. Thanks btw.

6A>2B is brilliant. In fact, that's just the kind of thing Tager needs to buff up his close in game (in addition to faster normals). 6A pulling people back in works, but its pretty weak, even with the super armor.