FlyingVe

And stomping primers out of people. 6B>6B>6C>Bsledge>followup is hardly good, but hella fun. Especially on Carl.

Getting Mag'd is better or worse depending on character and position. Many characters can ride the mag to punish 5D or 2D (this is really easy with Makoto and Noel), while others can just run away. Litchi actually does a bit worse under mag because her pokes (while long and powerful) are a bit on the slow side, and she has a higher risk of getting CH by 5D. Also, 5D is +2 which can lead to shenannigans and makes the next poke better relative to Litchi's. Also, in my opinion Tager really only has truly solid pressure in the corner. When you take away moving backwards, alot of Tagers tricks and frame traps are much more powerful.

Well, I mean, you can JC the 5D too, right? Against Tager that's pretty safe, especially with that gdlk jB.

Actually, now is a really good time to try and start a scene because of MvC3 coming out. One of the biggest problems in getting people to play a FG with you is often how much better you will be than the learners. As helpful as you can be, it's no fun to get thwumped over and over. If you learn a game together it's much more likely that people will want to play. MvC3 can be that game, and with such simple controls and recognizable characters you can get people to try it really easy. Then once they get used to the whole FG thing, you can introduce them to BB, MB, SF, or whatever. I'm sure LK will have more (better) advice, but I wanted to point out the opportunity. I'm gonna try and get more people around here hooked on FG's.

Yep, I just misunderstood. The 5D (Kune) cancel after 6A is safe too. You can interrupt it, but that's just a guess on Tager's part, and one where the odds aren't in your favor.

Posting dumb ideas about a character you don't play in a game you haven't played builds... um... community?

Actually, 6A is really bad on block, -19.

Check the LK Q&A thread. Osuna and I basically laid out all the many, many reasons that it won't work as an anti-air.

Okay, I've read this and I will now attempt to give a slightly more... robust answer. First, lets look at XYH the move, it has 6 frames of vulnerable startup. In terms of using this as a way of making the 720 into some kind of reversal has less effectiveness as most characters 5A, in addition to adding 6 frames to the 720 startup (11 total). Now the XYH cancel does have uses, the most obvious being "BOO 720," the more sneaky being abusing the fact that Tager doesn't undergo hit/blockstun during the XYH. This is neat but at best a gimmick. 6A suffers a similar problem, it has no armor at startup or during the attack part of the move, so to beat something with it, the move would need to have ass recovery or your timing would need to be exquisite. This is especially difficult given how slow the move is. In fact, the move is so slow that it's very likely a character (like Kune), could land and just continue is pressure (5A) and hit you out of it. The premise that this matchup isn't strictly worse isn't totally off based on all the reasons Osuna already listed. But it's worth pointing out that Kune can spend 50 meter to get full curse off of many of the options against Tager, a character that does not have the mobility to avoid them (he must block/endure it). I could still be misunderstanding what your going for, I am trying to understand, but, to be blunt, you sound like someone who doesn't really play Tager. Edit: Also, alot of Jap Tager players were trying to abuse these things in the very early CS2 days, but they weren't really working, so they stopped. Also, you can hard read Arakunes jB with a well placed 2A or 2C already.

Yeah, I'll do a full write-up and stuff when the time comes, but right now, it's something we can only dream of.

It's almost like, you know, there's a reason the Tager players aren't using those new "tricks"...?

I know what it is, but it isn't relevant in CS1 (it'll work but not achieve anything). We'll deal with it when CS2 comes around, until then I wouldn't worry about it. Mu and Makoto can both abuse the hell out of it in CS2 I'll probably do some more set-up and tactics vids that will include the right times to abuse it and so forth.

The whole post basically is a combination of stupid, and stating that Tager can guess right... thanks... I guess... To be fair, the matchup would be (slightly) better if 5A>curse with meter wasn't added. EditL just read list of Arakune changes. This match will still be ass pancakes for many more reasons than the above.

This might be a blessing in disguise. Now that it only pulls during active frames, the should be much less mag assisted CH's from the enemy.

If it can be made safe, it would have to be because of the 236A buffs (hurray if it's true). In CS1 that makes the situation more confusing and awkward than actually safe.

To put it bluntly, it sounds like you need to work on your hit-confirming. You gotta have good hit-confrim with Mu or you'll either be passing up alot of damage, or throwing radically unsafe stuff out there for no reason.

You just push yourself out of range to use it pretty quick.

That's what I mean, if you decide not to chase her, then she's gonna get bar for charging stars. It's kinda a lose/lose. Once again, Mu does win this matchup.

Everything you say about Tsubaki is true, but I think she can reliably get at least on stock, and that her 5B is still pretty solid. If she tries to run away to build charge you have to chase after he to stop it. This puts you at a risk of getting 5B/2C'd (or otherwise coming to her) and if you try to back off and set-up you're conceding the charge bar and risking charging stars. What you said about her 5B is true, and while our 5C out ranges it, her 5B is way faster, so she can dash in at tag you. Also, her 5B is just barely fast enough to punish SoD(lvl1) most times. You're right, she doesn't get shit for landing it, but she does get in, and that counts for something. Don't get me wrong we definitely win this matchup regardless, because, well, Tsubaki kinda sucks. I think your spot on with jin tools, but I have to disagree on how effective his options can be. I wouldn't underestimate D-IceCar, that sucker is fast, and can really mess up zoning on reaction. Plus if you're near the corner, you lose a ton of health. The fact that his jC is so good, makes it really hard to even get in position to threaten with your air throw or what have you. Also, jin's 2A is a remarkable good AA for Mu's aerial attacks. I think we lose to jin in neutral, not anywhere near as badly as some of the others, but still a distinct disadvantage. What other things can we do to jin more so than the other characters that beat us in neutral?

I can see why you moved the characters you did, but maybe you could be a little more specific. I had tsubaki at even mostly because she has a good poke in 5B and her 2C stops jC stuff clean. Plus between her foot-speed and D-charging star she makes it very hard to get away from her. Jin on the other hand, well, his jC beats ours (this really sucks) and he can use Ice car to punish runaway and fullscreen steins. All of this in addition to his very deep toolbox. So I'm curious as to what you think. Later today I might type up a more comprehensive list for discussion. I'm not pretending to be correct on any of this. Edit: by comprehensive, I mean with explanations. That way everybody can see where I'm wrong.

Well, you could be right on both, I had a hard time ranking them. To be honest, my valk exp is a bit limited, but between lasers and jC,j2C,2C I never felt like Valk had a good way to do his thing. This is different than Ragna (or whoever), because he can't block as a wolf. His glide throw is his best tool, and it can be dealt with. Now if he does get it... hoo boy... we die. Maktoto is a little similar, but she has more effective tools (against mu) tools. Makoto has no range but she has alot of gimmicky guesswork type approaches. So effectively, both characters have to do quite a bit of guesswork, however, the reward for makoto guessing right once is practically round over, whereas Mu guessing right is no where near as scary. So, if the match has three guesses (hypothetically) we guess right all three times we might win, she guesses right once, she does wins. Once again, once this character gets in, we die. Why? because CS1 is dumb like that.

I was being a bit facetious. But yeah, you should be able to tac a super on most all the time.

Technically, it isn't always possible, but 99% time it is. You need to buffer the 2B input into the super. So it would look like this 632B146C. On males minus Hazama, Bang, (and valk too I believe) you can do 2B>5B>632146C which does a smidge more damage and is much easier.

Mu vs Lambda is a wierd matchup in my opinion, both characters screw with each other usual gameplan. For example, usually Lambda pretty much wants you as far away as possible, but if she does that against Mu, you can set up stiens and thus hurt her. As a more... angry... Mu player, my usual approach is to do everything in my power to get a couple of steins out, then fire off a command laser. This pretty much prevents her from using swords and lets you get in. Also, you can oki the hell out of lambda because her answers suck. Lastly abuse you 2B frame trap to keep up pressure. She cant out poke you, and her DP is slow enough that you can 2A or 2B see the DP, and then block>punish. Another thing in this matchup is know 6C. 6C is an anti-zoning weapon, but it's really slow so you gotta be careful with it. 6C on reaction beats 236D and 214D, you can also use it to yomi a D-sword or backdash after a blocked 236B

Well with great power come great responsibility I guess. But mostly, Mu is a character of extremes, as such, you can get caught with you pants down pretty easy. Also, some match-ups are very salty. Also, I post in both, and I have a very cynical edge, plus Tager and I have a very love hate relationship.