FlyingVe

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meh. That's alot of effort, it's easier and more effective to just learn which combo takes which move. Ragna doesn't really have alot of combo variation in CS so it isn't that bad.

Not always, sometimes you can and should still use 6A. Just keep practicing you combo's and you'll get it. Check the matchup board for matchup advice. Makoto isn't that bad if your spacing is good and you can block decently.

It's the only way to do the combo in some situations, usually involving an airborne opponent. Examples: GH(2)>Dash5B>5D(2)>(DC)>jB>jC>jC>BE>... ...>6C(2)>(DC)>5D(2)>(DC)>jB>jC>jC>BE>... Also, 6A is usually the best option after 5D, but you can use 5C is you need the extra range. It only does slightly less damage.

^^This. It's worth pointing out that since they aren't in the arcades yet, the japanese haven't gotten a hold of them, and thus their true rank is quite certain. Bit like Synthesis said they are both mid tier, low A to high B.

Though skye and I disagree on how bad this matchup is, his advice is spot on. Patients pays off. Also, your sig... you totally took that out of context.

I did say gimmicky. Mu can't really recover fast enough to stop the 3C while she's doing stiens, and no decent makoto would throw that move if the game was neutral. She does recover in time to block it, but at that point Makoto is where she wants to be.

@Skye:Fair enough, I just think Mu's a better zoner than you're giving her credit for. So, let's leave it at 5-5 until people get more experience with the character. @Farran: However gimmicky they may be, I still think makoto can get around the lasers (asteroid vision, 3C), and once she's in, her damage output makes up for alot. But I see where you're coming from it could be Mu's slight advantage.

Yeah, this can be a very boring zoning match, but if Mu is setting steins properly, you will get hit every time you try to summon a cloud. Also, Mu can JC steins so she doesn't have a good reason to let the clouds hit her unless you force the issue. But to do that you must get through lasers and jC. There's very little reason I can see why Mu shouldn't just run away in this fight.

Ragna can also DC the 5D, which only leaves him at -4. Even on IB, that wouldn't be Diafunka punishable. Then again, 5A works better in that situation anyhow, and you can always buffer Daifunka and do it on reaction to the other stuff.

Also, I agree with Haku being even or close too. Haku only had the advantage when Mu's relied on 236D oki. Now that we have discovered other options he get's zoned pretty bad. For the same reasons I think Ragna is closer to even. His approach is bait for Mu's C pokes. He also get's zoned hard, and has very poor answers to Mu's oki options.

My reasons for thinking arakune is 6-4 is the same reason that Arakune's matchup with lambda is so bad. Yes, he can dodge the lasers, but between the lasers and jC, Arakune has a hard time doing his usual air shenanigans. I think that if the Mu player plays safely and conservatively there isn't much arakune can do short of trade life for curse meter. Also, 236D Oki isn't really that good. Most characters have good answers to it. Mu's other, better oki options work fine against the blob.

Looks about right to me. The only things I would take issue with are Arakune, I'm almost positive Mu has an advantage in this matchup (6-4), and Carl, again Carl has too many problems dealing with lasers for it to be any less than 6-4. Also, Tsubaki is probably 6-4 Mu, and Mu v lambda feels closer to even to me, and Rachel might have a bigger disadvantage than 4-6. I think Makoto v Mu is about 5.5-4.5 Makoto's advantage for the same reason I mentioned a few pages back.

She's got a hitbox that everybody hates, her and makoto screw up all kinds of combos. I still think my previous assessment stands, be willing to trade hits for that curse, you're just not gonna get it for free. Also, Mu's 236A is good in this matchup. But this is the arakune forums not the Mu forums, and that doesn't really help them.

To be perfectly honest, the only thing that truly gives me trouble is just me being overly greedy. I don't know much about playing Arakune, but how would you feel about playing the match up close? Mu destroys kune at long range and in the air (Air grab, jC, j2C), so perhaps an up close fight could be a better option? In my experience the Kune's that give me trouble are willing to give up a lot of life to get me cursed, knowing that they can kill me when they do. It could just be a really messy sort of match.

Depending on how you time your meaty you can often Kara-cancel your meaty during the super-flash fairly easily. 214DB is generally bad on wake-up unless the opponent is doing something obvious or slow.

Frame data says: Hotenjin - 6+1 360B - 6 720C - 5+0 Big Bang Smash might be fast enough, but I do not know the data on it. Edit: Data says BBS is 11 frames? That doesn't sound right but whatever. I tested it, it is not fast enough to punish Mu's 6B.

If you keep moving the laser's tracking will have a hard time hitting you. Most of the people get hit when they try to summon a cloud or the like. As you play against more mu's you will get a feel for the timing on the lasers and you will have an easier time getting around them. Don't rush through the lazorz. This is definitely a good matchup for Mu, she can zone kune, and she's much faster and can run very easily.

Mu's 6B is -3, which is pretty safe in BB. You can usually backdash away afterwards but that can be dealt with. The biggest problem is being hit out of it, since it is pretty slow (and he gattlings don't have much hit stun), or the second hit being IB'd since it's a 2 hit move. I agree with the 6-4 assessment, Mu does well with momentum on her side, but getting that momentum is really hard against Haz.

Mu is a gimmick factory. Once people get used to seeing her tricks, she will get alot less scary. That said, she has some solid pokes, zoning, and momentum, plus she can almost force oki in some setups (sort of). She's probably high B tier, low A at best. Edit: I should give her cross-under some more credit. If the Mu player will actually fake it occasionally, it can be pretty ambiguous. So many players just cross under every time, at which point it isn't mix-up anymore.

...3C>2B>5C>6C>... is Mu's most common and useful combo. EDIT: for clarity, the "..." indicates that you should do something prior to the 3C (such as 5B>2B>) and that you should do something after also (such as 5D>6D>(SJC))

Ragna's 5B does not = IB Jayoku, not now, not ever, not on the moon, not in a saloon, not on Jupiter, you should stop before you look any stupider. Hazama's Oki game in the corner is amazing because your only option is to neutral tech or reversal, and EVEN THEN you run the risk of getting mix'd up (command grab, 6A) or getting baited. You are correct though, if you manage to get momentum against Hazama (very hard to do), I believe you have the advantage. However, one Jayoku and it all goes to shit.

There's more to it than that. Tier placement is how well you do against the whole cast, High tiers included. The logic of, "She's beats all the B tiers, therfore she's A tier", just doesn't work.

I think Mu v Makoto is about 4.5-5.5 Makoto's favor. Mu is really good at keeping Makoto out, but Makoto does silly damage, parry autocorrects, and BBS punishes alot of stein stuff fullscreen. However, with Mu's range and DP to punish the predictable Mixup, all makoto's stuff is manageable.