FlyingVe
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Everything posted by FlyingVe
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Sounds about right, but probably closer to even. Alot of this "Haku is a bad matchup" talk comes from back when Hazama was still being figured out as a character. He was still B tier then (lol), he's gotten alot better with time.
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His midscreen oki isn't as bullet proof as his corner game, but you can't tech roll towards him for fear of 2A (duh), for back tech he has chains, chain follow-ups, and 3C. Not perfect, but better than what most characters have. Yes the hitstop stops midrange, though he can still be a jerk with the snakes. At midrange he can do a dash2A which is very fast, or poke with 3C and jakou, or even IAD 2C/jB, but most likely he will just fire a chain and spiderman away. It's just that his weakness at midrange is negated by how hard it is to keep him at mid-range.
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I'm honestly not sure what you said in you entire post. But the bits that did make sense were pretty wrong. The whole problem with this match is that Hazama makes it impossible to set-up without first knocking him down, and to do that, you gotta make it through his chains. On top of that, even if you do get momentum in your favor, a Jayoku can/will take half your health and turn the tables, and when Hazama has the advantage his oki game is very dangerous. Also, Hazama is EXTREMELY good at moving around using his chains. Okay, but I don't know why you would do this in favor of Mu's other oki otpions.
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What? Hazama has some of the best Tech-roll punishing in the game. Even is he is a bit weak at midrange, his chain pretty much let him be at whatever range he wants.
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I'm pretty sure that matchup info, the one where it's a 6-4 disadvantage for Hazama, is from along time ago, back when Hazama was B tier (lol). His gameplay has evolved a lot since then so saying the matchup is even isn't really that far-fetched. Also, It seem like al Henkai did was eliminate the S- tier by moving Hakumen and Hazama around a bit. The character rankings are still pretty accurate though.
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This argument is really going around in circles. The fact is, in the areas where Hazama "isn't great," he is still quite good. His only true weakness, is the lack of a good, meterless, defensive option. He is easily among the best characters in the game. Personally, I agree with the S- placement as he doesn't have as much OP BS as Bang or Litchi, and can't "oops I win" like Arakune.
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I quit too. I was just a scrub exploiting the fact that he was online. I was gonna kick him if you didn't leave.
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Problem with Mu is, for better or worse, is that shes just a collection of parlor tricks. Some people have alot of trouble with that because you need to ver fundamental sound to play her in neutral. Unlike Tager though, her tricks don't get her hurt for failing, and the all lead into more mind games.
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Actually, I'm kind of in an SSf4 mood. You game for that? It will probably pass quickly.
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I guess, but Gadget>RC>AC(wiff) is strictly better. Though, you can do this new gimmick against Tager and not "gadget flinger".
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I've seen that before. It look really awesome, but it's like GF>RC>5D. That is, all it does is look tricky, in terms of frames it's no different than a normal gadget finger. They could still jump, and DP, and maybe backdash. Great for showing off, and the confusing nature of the trick has merits. The instant someone becomes afraid of Tager, Tager has the advantage.
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The matchup sucks. Hazama does everything you do better. But thankfully Mu can fight back a little.
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214D can be more useful when you have the enemy cornered and they can't roll and avoid it as easy. Most of my 214D set-ups are just neutral (see dash>blow stien), standard oki, and gimmicky stuff like 623C>6D>214D. Also, while not great, 236D can still be useful. Pay attention to how the person reacts to it. If they jump out you can air grab or such. Not perfect, but you can condition people to endure the laser fairly easy, or punish their predictable reaction to it. I've won many matches by air grabbing a jump out of 236D, rapid cancel into big damage and more oki.
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Certain characters deal with SoD better than others. Rachel is particularly vulnerable to this tactic as not even her supers or CA can truly counter the move. If your reactions are good you can even stop rolls. Never do this to Ragna, Makoto, Tsubaki, Bang or Hakumen. Ragna and Tsubaki can use IBing to great effect against the spam. Makoto has BBS/parry to screw up everything you do, Hakumen can counter the predictable release of the sword (you might be able to space out the counter), and bang has many, many options (as always).
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Playing around in training mode and I've found a few things that I hadn't seen mentioned: CH jC links to 6B at all ranges (easier if closer) this yields good damage and can end with an oki setup. It's harder on the characters that 6B juggles are hard on. CH jC>Dash6B>6A>j2C>Dash2B>5C>6D>enders You can also go into the corner loop for more damage depending on positioning You can also link CH 2C to 6B but it's much harder on some characters. The beauty of it is, that it gives you plenty of time to hit-confirm the 2C and jump away if it was blocked or not a counter-hit.
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I did testing a while ago, 236A is actually slightly less safe than JC'ing a stien. Your best off with 5C>2C>Jump cancel or 5C>SoD. SoD is bad on IB if you don't charge it, but that is also risky. You can also get away with 5C>stien>Jump Cancel, but that is only if you've conditioned then to expect something after the 5C. It's kinda like why Ragna's 5B and 5C are fairly safe.
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And I need more matchup experience against Carl, so I could very well be doing it wrong. My general Mu experience though, is that, if I can knock carl (or any non-Bang character) away, I can zone crazy good (borderline lockdown against carl and rachel). But at other times (not fullscreen) setting stiens is pretty risky, and the command laser takes a few hours to recover. Edit: The match-up definitely sucks for carl, regardless.
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Mid screen his oki may be average, but in the corner, he is a god. He has so many ways to stop techrolls and jump outs (2a, 5B), plus if he has meter he can OS Jayoku for huge damage. Once you stop rolling you have to endure his brief but dangerous mixup. @Zong: As a mu player. I feel that the Mu carl matchup is only about 6-4 Mu. Mu can deal with the puppet, but it never seems like it's a full proof way of keeping Carl out, and once carl gets in Mu is in alot of trouble.
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You don't really need to even do the dash, just delay the 2nd hit of GH as much as humanely possible to make the timing easier. You might need the dash against a few characters, but I forget who.
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Awesome list, good job. A thought though. Can't some characters cancel into invulnerable moves during the super flash (Ragna >Blood Kain for example), thus screwing up the punish? Edit: So you did mention that. Sorry, I misread that sentence.
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You're acting like we've never played good Hazama players before and that's just not true. Implying thus is awfully insulting, especially when everyone here is trying their best to give you advice and help out. Perhaps, you could explain what Hazama is doing to counter our suggestions and we could have a discussion, rather than just whining and shitting all over everything. And, just to repeat myself, everybody is aware that this is a bad matchup, nobody is arguing that.
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Just a bit laggy isn't it...
Also, the ranked match system is broke. I just stick to player matches, I usually spam invites when I got a room open, so keep your eyes peeled. -
1) Comboed into? I've never seen that. You can DP, and backdash it on reaction, plus if you IB the move he cancels into the stance you can lol punish it. It sounds like you are relying on prediction instead of reaction. Everything that comes from the stance is slow and/or DP able. 2)214D-A, super jump over it, backdash, DP. 3)214B - Umm... it won't hit you out of 5C (spaced), and you can punish him hard for doing it in a string. 4)Don't roll if your in the corner, Hazama can punish rolls hard, the corner really sucks in this matchup. 5)Frame Traps - These aren't unique to Hazama, if you know one is coming DP, or jab or backdash depending on range. IBing ruins is frame trap game. Also, you can just block the frame trap and be patient. 6)6A - it's an overhead, and not a great one, blocking or DP is your only option. I recommend blocking as he can't really follow it up. 7) Just like when you're fighting Tager or Bang, you just have to react to the setups. Hazama has neither range (tager) or mobility (bang), so you will only have to watch for it for a sec before he's out of range and will have to try something risky to get back in to do it. @Synthesis: JC'ing steins is great for getting rocks out, but if you block the chain, the laser won't fire . Who ever has the zoning momentum dominates pretty well. Relentless stiens make it hard to chain, and relentless chains make it hard to stein. 6C can be fun if he's being to reckless with chains.
