soujiro seta

oh no we weren't talking about the reward he gets off 5b/j.b but rather how safe/unsafe his approach is. What the.....? I don't even understand what is going on here. Did you read my post? You said you can AA rags j.C with jin/haku j.C or with tager's AC on reaction. I said you can't. By the time you attempt either one of those, you'd get hit by j.C. This is not theory fighter. In order to do j.C with jin/haku to a ragna who is going to going to IAD j.C, you'd have to jump up before he does and do j.C, aka guessing. You'd AA him while he's in his air dash animation. Are you reallly arguing that you j.C ragna...... hell are you really arguing that you can AA any character IADing at you with haku's/jin's j.C on reaction? Besides 4C (cause jin doesn't have one), why do you think hakus/jins spam j.C in the carl matchup? Keyword spam. They are trying to stop carl from coming from the air. You cannot j.C carl (or any character for that matter, besides tager cause he cant IAD) on reaction when he's already IADing towards you. They spam j.C because they are anticipating he'll try to come from the air. Problem is they don't know when, so they spam it endlessly so that he'll have a hard time approaching from the air. You seem to know something the japanese don't, cause according to you they shouldn't spam it, and they can AA carl with j.C on reaction. What are you talking about? Are you saying tager AAs rags with AC after ragnas neutral jumps when he's already close to tager? That is not ragna specific, it will work on all characters. I'm talking about ragna IADing and using j.C at max range. How can tager AC him? Lol, you're asking for a free CH into combo. Except I'm talking about doing stuff on reaction. You can 6A someone dashing at you on reaction, you can't j.C with haku/jin someone dashing at you on reaction cause you'll lose everytime. The only way to win is doing it before theirs, a guess. Uhh, ragna being in his 5b range and poking you with 5b doesn't automatically equate to blockstring. He can just poke you with 5b and do nothing else after that to see you're reaction. Change the timing up, leave holes, add hells fang, etc. Ragna not committing to 5B doesn't mean his opponent can automatically get away. Like I said, he can do things or not do things, to get a reaction from you. Punishing anything on IB makes a difference. This is not specific to ragna. Hell if every tager could IB 360/720 5a/2a like Galileo then tager would be S tier. That doesn't mean doing 5a/2a against tager is dangerous, lol as long as he's not Galileo, it just means the person is using a character that can IB punish 5a/2a. You're making the assumption that every character is IB punish friendly, that once you IB anything, regardless of who you're using, you can punish it. I assure you that is not the case. IBing ragna doesn't have to be hard, if it were so easy and everything he did was easily IBed and punished by everyone then he would be rachel tier. The reason why you don't see a lot of characters IB punish ragna is cause they're usually out of range to. That was the first mistake you made, assuming that an IB against ragna with any character = an automatic punish. There's a reason why I said his approach is safe, cause you're out of range to punish his blockstrings with most characters even if you IB, and what ever he does next will counter hit you in your attempt to punish him after your IB. Lol, with the way you sound it's easy to think everything ragna does is unsafe after all it's so easy to just IB punish everything he does cause he's so predictable. Ragnas approach isn't risky. 5B and j.C, like I've said, are why. He can approach most of the cast safely from the ground and air without fear of being AA or out-ranged upclose. Exactly this explains it better. You can't AA ragna, or any character, IADing at you with haku's/jin's j.C on reaction. You'd be reacting to their IADing, but by the time your j.C comes out, it'd be too late and you'd get hit by what ever they did first. Yes Zong said what I was trying to say, but mine didn't come out well, (I hate you zong always trying to _one up me lol). You can jump in reaction to rags IAD if anything, but you'd lose if you think jin's/haku's j.C will come out before his.

^^^thanks Mac Everything you said is guessing, and not done on reaction. You can 6A on reaction, but not the examples you listed. The only way Jin's/haku's j.C can beat rags j.C is if they guess right, jump up first, do j.C, theirs comes out first and hits ragna while he's in the process of doing his. Jin's/haku's j.C does not beat out rags j.C on reaction. It's impossible. You don't AC AA people on reaction, you do it as a guess. Also, j.c at max range will beat AC clean, which is where a good ragna will do it from to begin with. Why would rags j.C at a party bug to begin with? Lambda and hazama beat everyone out in the air from a distance anyway. Jumping at lambda/haz is unsafe for everyone, this is not ragna specific. How does that make j.C any less safe? If ara's 2D makes it whiff or clash at worse then isn't that good for ragna? Cause he knows at worst it will whiff, at best clash so now he's in ara's face, exactly where he wants to be. lol, do you know why this topic started out in the first place? Ve said rags approach is risky, and I said otherwise, using 5B and j.C as to why. So I don't understand what you were trying to pin point in your last paragraph. Also, ofcourse you're gonna block 5B, what else were you gonna do in the first place? How is it still not safe since most characters can't punish him from that range. What does IBing 5C and punishing 2C have to do with this? Aslo, Saying you can IB 5C and reversaled 2C doesn't make it any less safe. That's like saying bangs 5A isn't safe cause Buppa jayokued Dora during his 5A mash. You have to have a character than has a good IB reversal tool. Secondly, does that IB reversal tool require 50 heat? Which Dwindles down to only a few characters. If the ragna is just constantly tossing out 5B 5C 2C at jin/haku/haz with 50 heat then he's asking to be yukikazed/jayokued. That's sloppy play from the ragna, that still doesn't mean 5C 2C is unsafe.

If j.c is spaced properly I don't see how it can be AA. Unless he's facing like haku and he times 2C correctly. Even then haku might still lose, I don't know. Haku players, does 2C beat ragna's j.C? Apart from haku I don't see who else could AA a properly spaced j.C, which is what the ragna should have done to begin with. If you see rags IAD you wouldn't have enough time to move forward and AA, by then you'd already be hit b j.C. 5B losing o_O? I'll actually have to agree with smooshman on this. Tsubaki has one of the best 5B, but ragnas 5B beats her 5B clean. Very rarely will you trade with his, and I mean very rarely. His 5B comes out faster than other moves with the same range. The only way it would lose is if someone anticipated you would toss it out and did something earlier, but that's guessing. I don't see how ragnas approach is risky. He has one of the safest ways to approach. Ofcourse there are characters with better (litchi, bang, etc) but I'm just saying. Yeah I know he has to play patiently against those 2 but I was talking about overall. He can approach the other characters very easily, and because of his range it's very easy for him to zone them as well. Yes, a poorly spaced j.C will lose, just like hakus who IAD and poorly space j.C, but properly spacing j.C, which the ragna should do.....I just don't see how it can get AA. 5B and properly spacing j.C make his approach against the cast very safe. He can approach the cast safely from the air and ground. I know there are a few exceptions but I'm talking overall. This is the same problem that I tried to express in my last post about the space/taunt loop. The whole 1 trick pony playstyle. Their entire gameplan revolves around it, and they deal too much damage. Noel's haida loop was reduced from CT cause it dealt way too much meterless damage. Tauntloop doesn't have to be removed persay but drastically reduce the damage/reps and make it more situational, cause right now she can get it off anything. Space loop on the other hand just needs to go. I don't see a way arc can work around it.

Ragna doesn't have trouble approaching. He has the best 5B in the game, and he can never get AA because of j.C. He can zone you with 5B 5C all day and there's close to nothing most characters can do about it. Only a few have an answer to that. His mixup is also safe because of his meter gain.

Lol, people give carl way too much credit. He's not as good, overall, as most people think he is. He is solid, yes (just like lambda, jin, hazama, etc) but to put him in S tier or even close to S would be a huge overstatement imo. I think people always use the best case scenario with him: he gets you sandwiched and resets you to death. So they automatically say "Wow so good, he must be S tier".....except that's not how it works.

I would say some where at 6.5 - 3.5 or 7-3 imo. Defintely not 8-2 or 9-1. It's just really hard to approach. If the haku is trying to be too offensive then you can catch him. But if he is just sitting there, using 4c and is very defensive minded, lol like you mac, then it is just too hard for carl to approach. The risk involved in getting in is just so much in hakus favor, even when you're in his counters and range can destroy a lot of carls game.

LMAO, you're speaking my language Kyle. Carl can't do anything. I don't see how this isn't at worse 7-3. It's just terrible for carl.

Ginseng i want to ask for your forgiveness. I doubted you, and I was one of those non believers. I thought maybe you just didn't have enough hope in her when you said "I'll let you guys decide for yourselves when the game comes out", and that we would be able to find something, (lol like tsubaki has any potential), but now I see why you were the way you were all this time. She has way too many problems that a simple change in proration numbers cannot fix. You were right all along, but i love her too much to not stick by her. Going by the code of the yayois, "All work and no play, obidience, dishonesty should be punished severely....." I and a couple others should be excommunicated from here for doubting you, infact I would go as far as saying beheaded, lol, but your love for all that is yayoi is what keeps your wings open to us, even after what we did. I wish we could give you a nobel peace prize for our disloyalty. MY BROTHERS, and sister (pktazn lol), LET US JOIN TOGETHER AND BECOME ONE. NO MORE DOUBTING EACH OTHER, NO MORE LETTING OUT FAMILY DOWN....... For we are the yayois. In our right hand we carry the sword of judgment, and in our left, the scales of justice. We serve the wings who govern the heavens. We are their word and their sword made flesh. Non believers! Resistance will bring you only death!

Is it just me or does this matchup seems like 6.5-3.5. You take such a beating and too much risk just to get in on him. He will always have 8 stars and every hit comfirm leads to half your life. 2 combos and you're

I would definitely say ara is S tier. He doesn't have to one shot kill you, the fact that even when he doesn't you are left with 5% health, his guage is 60% full, eating one more cloud or blocking 1 more bell bug or those things that he shoots out when he transforms into a plant put him back in curse mode is enough is retarted. Add that to the fact that if he really needs to deal some damage just to finish you off he could always go the guard break route. The only character that takes a while to crack is tager. Also the idea of 1 shot depends on the character you're using. As a carl main I've gotten 1 shot killed by several random aras, well I almost did but I ended using a burst. ITS NOT SITUATIONAL AT ALL, or i'm left with, like i said, 5% health with his guage 60%........you get the idea. Ara definitely needs tweaking. I also agree with ryo. Why doesn't his meter drain normally when you do actually take the risk to counter him and combo? It's so stupid cause like dacid said, the only time you even attempt is when you are sure it will kill him. Even a counter assault againt ara is risky cause you can get hit by some random bug. BTW am i the only one who calls his curse mode arakune phobia?

I'm so sorry guys, I haven't come her in forever. Tsubaki took hold of me and didn't let go. I haven't even posted the stuff I have. Now I'm trying to learn makoto. Don't worry carl will always be my number 1. I feel so bad for leaving you shotas behind like that. I feel like I betrayed this forum. Plz forgive me.

Is it just me or is makota going to destroy lambda. 214A/B/C can probably get her through swords. 236A can help get rid of 214D. Her rush down, mixup, and damage is insane, aka Bang #2. Once she has 50 heat she can punish a whiffed sword on reaction with 632146D (big bang smash) and lambda's 214D becomes useless. Plus, I won't be surprised if with 50 heat she can punish lambda thousand sword super, don't know the name, on reaction (big bang buffered during super flash). It will obviously trade, but lambda probably won't be able to follow up after. Obviously most of the maks suck now, so we won't know how things will turn out.

I never said you said she's a good character. Its the fact that you're including tager and noel in the same caliber as tsubaki. Rachel isn't bad, its just her damage. Tsu is a bad character, period.

1. Noel can actually play safe, whether or not she is dealing enough damage isn't the point. Tsubaki's entire game puts her at a disadvantage and is risky. Even her so called D based moves put her at a disadvantage on block. Also, I don't think you understand what I mean when I say that "You'll miss normals at point blank range, be it during a combo or trying to apply pressure, and get punished for it". Safe and tsubaki should never be used in the same sentence. 2. Not only do you need charge to deal any sort of worth while damage, you deal any damage based of gimmicks. Not a good idea. Noel average 3k per combo and proceeds to continue her mixup after wards, no dealy. Tsu averages 3k per combo with charge and has to end her mixup just to get another charge to hopefully deal another 3k. Did I also mention that tsu's fatal counter is useless, unlike noel's, and nothing she does has any invincibility, unlike noel's drives? 3. IB punish? with tsu. Sorry I don't understand you can't IB punish anything with normals like that. Oh you're talking about noel, my bad, lol. Lol, tsu's entire gameplan is gimmicky, and as you said, (with a twist), "at the end of the day, ALL of the time you're not 100% sure that it's gonna hit. You'll even get punished for whiffing normals during combos or while applying pressure at pt blank range". You're opponent can only fall for the same gimmicks so many times.

I use tager as well, not as a main but as a sub, and I know what noel can do. I main carl and tsubaki, and I will tell you this, you don't know what a bad character is like until you use her. You really have to like tsubaki to use her. Atleast rachel has potential. There is no such thing as potential with tsubaki, hell she has no solid....anything. It's all a bag of tricks and gimmicks. Except with the tools she has her tricks are terrible and everything she does puts her at a disadvantage. You're opponent can play like a scrub, and you'll have to play like a god with tsubaki just to keep up, talk less of even winning. Lol, ofcourse I'm exaggerating but you get the point.

Funny thing is tsubaki's aerial moves, like j.214 a/b/c/d or j.236 a/b/c/d aren't even overheads. You can block them low. Like I said, i really hope the patch is more than just proration numbers, cause rachel will be fixed to some degree, but tsubaki will be the worst until the next game.

lol, no way. Noel and tager >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>tsubaki>rachel. You think tsubaki is good DC? So good as to be better than noel? Nah. Noel and tager are miles ahead of tsubaki.