mAc Chaos

Spark, can you test out Hotaru to see how plus on block it is. I trust your reflexes more than mine. :P It's a matter of putting everything in at the earliest possible frame. The whole reason I started on this investigation is because after playing a bunch of matches with badlime's Tsubaki, I ended up in a situation where Hotaru would actually be the END of my pressure, which just seems wrong. Basically, I'd throw him into the corner, and make him block Hotaru. Ordinarily I could just keep pressuring, but for whatever reason her 2A would beat out my 2A. Maybe it was lag (probably) but I have to know for sure what options I have so I don't walk into a counterhit when I think it's my turn to push buttons. Anyway, in this situation it basically turned into: if I tried to land and pressure I'd get hit, so jump canceling would be the next option. But all Tsubaki has to do is sit there and 2C and it will beat anything you can do (unless you just go right into the overhead Tsubaki). So in the end all you can do after they block Hotaru is just jump away and give up your advantage. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that 2A would get stuffed now after my testing, but there's still other characters with super fast 5As and 2As that could still be a concern. And then you throw in IBing into the mix.

Yeah but I can't find it.

WHERE

I've been trying to look at the data but I can't make sense of how levels work. For instance, 3C is level 4. Supposedly that's 18 frames of blockstun. But the recovery on 3C is 25 frames. 25 - 18 = -6, but it's really -4. Plus with aerial moves you have to factor in the frames of freefall and landing recovery and everything else and who knows how much those are. It's better to just try and test it out with seeing what attacks can get through or get counterhit.

Man I can already see that being hilarious against Hakumen and Tager.

It just doesn't give you any information on how + they are on block. And then that's only when you do it in the air, immediately as you land the move, not landing and continuing pressure. That adds extra time to it. Basically I want to figure out how plus it is, as if it was a ground attack. I want to know what my window for doing something like hop Hotaru > 2A is.

What's the move that causes it? Is it getting hit by that spider thing. Or his distortion super.

I think gamehead should start his own twitter.

I figured Ragna just dined and dashed all the time.

Is that a new curse move or something. Mu was moving super slow like she was weighted down or something.

Is this real. How is that speed even possible.

I feel like Tsubaki is more + than Hotaru. Seems like they can't poke out even on IB if I did it right. Which makes sense to me since Hotaru already has a million other things going for it, and Tsubaki costs more stars to boot.

Arakune is more Cthuluesque creature of the abyss and magic.

> aerial techs > double jumps > airdashes

lol, I love how everybody always says Tager sucks because of his tools but it's the gimmicks that we all go crazy over.

Saved what.

Pretty much all of his normals except 6B are +, and you can cancel that into a counter to cover yourself. In the case of 6B you could hit him out of the startup. His C moves aren't + but they can be canceled into moves that are. You have to wait it out until he has to hop or Kishuu back in, and then you can IAD / backdash away or try to hit him. Just watch out for Hotaru. Basically as long as he has stars he can cover himself. You want to wait until he runs out. And when he's pressuring you with his normals, he'll slowly get pushed back, and he'll have to hop back in to keep pressuring. IBing Gurren or the 2nd hit of Renka is your best bet for a sure fire time to hit buttons. Oh and 6B.

Except I don't play in lag. :P Minimal delay ~> WE OUT also:

You know, you'd think normal green grabs would be worse in lag. For some reason everybody objects to the purple ones.

4C is bad against Litchi. She has a million ways to make you pay for it. Litchi is better off than you at mid and full range. You want to slowly make your way in, and catch her without her staff. The instant you get a knockdown off a random hit and she doesn't have her staff on her, go all in.

Good logic. You guys should try to see it yourself too since you never know if the 5D or 2A was done at the earliest possible moment or not. I feel like +1 is too little, but who knows. Or rather, I want it to be more. :P dat confirmation bias

Well, you can do a million things after Hotaru. Jump cancel, counter, cancel into Tsubaki, etc. And the move itself is invincible. With Tsubaki you just land.

I found a better test. Hotaru > 5D 5D's startup is 5 frames. It actually manages to catch Hazama's 5A and 2A without IB. Hazama's 5A is 5 frames and his 2A is 6 frames. But with IB, Hazama's 5A and 2A both hit... Now I just have to figure out what that means. Wait, I guess that just establishes a lower bound, not an upper bound. FFFFFFFFFF

It even pushes Hakumen far enough away that your fastest moves, 5A, will whiff, putting you in perfect 2A range. It looks like those wouldn't make it out in time anyway though.

His Tsubaki is definitely safe. It has a lot of stun. I'm trying to 2A with Hazama after IBing Hotaru and I can't beat Haku's 2A after it. Doesn't make sense. I must be doing it wrong. I'm IBing and hitting his 2A as much as I can.