EternalLurker

I blame this thread for not suggesting Justice and Kliff as unexpected, underplayed mains, I guess? And yet @arbitrary double standards: I lol'd.

It's Capcom. The closest they've ever managed to get to a balanced game was Vampire Savior II.

farran: The voices aren't in the original version, ya know. That's the PS2 version. Anywho, the way I described was the completely free and slightly-more-legal-than-torrenting-the-game version of reading F/sn, that's all. ATG: Wow. I called my friend and told him to test it out, and he burst out laughing after a few minutes. And thanks for the Luvia clarification. Also, lol @ 3:32, Berserker pseudoinfinite.

Fuyuki-wiki is more accurate when it comes to details about the Servants, but the TM Wikia will give you the basics of the storyline, I guess. Nonetheless, you're better off reading the patch to which I linked you. That way you get the full experience, including the wonderful marine analogies.

Blade, I already directly linked you to the English patch of F/sn. You don't have to buy the original game. Just download the patch and read the text files within. I even linked you to the CGs and sprites in case you want 'em anyway. Can't ask for anything more than that. farranpoison: The basic system is explained here. You're referring to mana activations. That page is a little inaccurate about defensive activations but the basic idea is there.

Why are you getting angry about losing? Is it cuz you wanna win? If so, since you don't sound like the kind of person who plays better when angry (few people are), raging is certainly not going to help you win. Therefore, don't rage. It's pretty simple. Instead, politely ask your opponent for a rematch, during which you should mentally detach yourself and analyze what (s)he's doing. Play him/her again as many times as necessary until you've figured out what the issue is. It might not be quickly fixable (improving your reflexes takes a lot of practice against very good opponents, and learning specific aspects of a particular matchup can take weeks), but set it as your next GG-related goal, whatever it is.

Avalon PROVIDES SABER WITH MANA, too, not to mention the fact that its passive, mana-less regenerative abilities allowed Saber to recover from a full GoB spam in minutes. It's stupid. Add that to Saber's utterly retarded stats and skills (c'mon, her fucking INSTINCT lets her dodge an attack that WARPS CAUSALITY) and she's horribly broken. Yes, Gil rapes most people whenever he actually tries, but him beating Dark Sakura's uber-regeneration is questionable even if he hadn't underestimated her, which makes the Jeweled Sword Zelretch ridiculously powerful...and that was traced by Shirou. Gilgamesh is blatantly, intentionally broken (pulling a fucking Ancient Babylonian spaceship out of the Gate of Babylon is just wtf), but Saber and Shirou are overall much more retarded. As for Kirei, he's solid, but his slow keys aren't much of a ranged game, so combined with his low mobility he has issues with keepaway. Not that most characters are particularly good at keepaway, so I'd say the only matchups that affects are Shirou and Caster, neither of whom get in their real damage at max range anyway.

Oh blah. Saber has the utter stupidity that is Avalon. Don't tell me any non-Arturia character is broken in canon. Except maybe Shirou, who's way more stupid than Gilgamesh. "Lol I'm gonna trace Berserker's sword. Oh wait, that won't kill him. Okay, I'll trace his greatest technique through it. Oh wait, I can't lift this sword. That's okay, I'll trace his strength."

Oh god, Rin has an infinite now too? >_> It's been a while since I played this. Last I knew, the only infinites were Gilgamesh's (THREE wtf, most of which can be started from ANYWHERE), Caster's (corner infinite, easy to combo them into the corner in the right places, and still loops a couple times midfield), Archer's (requires stupidly fast button pressing, not even sure a human can do it), and Bazette's Berserker-only one. I assume you mean a pseudoinfinite, anywho: enough to kill the opponent, so it's effectively an infinite. Can't see Rin actually pulling off a jewelless infinite, and using jewels automatically makes the combo limited in duration. D'ya have a vid? Speaking of vids, here are two of Gilgamesh's infinites. It occurs to me that one of the vids is yours, ATG. Cool. :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBSu-suLg7w -- what the fuck. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heAu1WBOKbA -- combo INTO infinite starts around 0:17 >_> Also, you have the Luviagelita loop at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KSb7hv5qb8 but I'm sure I've seen it loop _way_ longer than that. Has there been a somewhat recent (last 4 months) discovery, or was the loop I saw not a true combo?

Probably. Probably not, though auto-unscaling Tsubame Gaeshi will help. Um what. You can combo into her command throw. You don't just throw it out. It's integral to her stupidly easy infinite, after all, so of course you can combo it. wut If you're getting full meter with any character, you're playing someone who sucks too much for you ever to need to burst, or you're doing it wrong. IIRC, in the PS2 version you have to beat Arcade Mode with Saber and with Saber Alter to unlock Saber Lily. It's probably the same in the PSP version. She'll show up as Saber's fourth costume, but it's a unique costume in that her name under her health bar will actually change.

Considering the characters you listed, I'd probably suggest trying to stick with May for a while and seeing how that goes.

Um, if SBO is your measure, Rider + Rin composed more than half of the top 8. More detailed breakdown from shoryuken's forums: 3 Gilgameshes and 3 Lancers qualified, but so did 3 Riders and 3 Rins and 3 Sabers. Berserker dominates with five qualifiers. Of the 3 Riders, all get into the top 8; of the 3 Rins, two do; but only one Gilgamesh and one Lancer manage. One of the latter is 138. I don't think SBO 2009 was a valid source of tier info. If 138 had been playing Archer instead of Lancer he probably would still have won, after all.

...Auto-unscaling? Well, that answers my question about how different the versions were. That'll fuck up the tier lists massively.

Lancer's considered that good now? Used to be people just hated dealing with his speed in the way they hate dealing with Millia's and Chipp's, but neither Millia nor Chipp are considered high-tier because of it. And if it's tourney results you're using, I think Archer's had better results than Gilgamesh. Also, you forgot Shirou Tier: Shirou. Anywho, would either of you care to elaborate on Leysritt? Is there anything of note about her that makes her better than a not-as-sucky Assassin?

Dark Sakura isn't shit tier like Assassin. I think she used to be considered god-tier in Japan until people realized that her lack of mobility hurt even harder than Caster's, at which point Archers, Lancers, and Berserkers just shut her down. Nonetheless, her combo setups and pressure game still make her pretty damn solid, and teleporting is decent enough mobility to help her offensively, especially with a projectile backing it up. I don't know anything about Leysritt, really. I've never seen her used well by anyone. I'm sure she's got some capability I've never figured out, but as far as I can tell she's just utterly meh. Still better than Assassin, though, and for all I know she's just waiting for someone to break her and make her viable, but the lack of any projectiles pretty much kills her combo damage, so I dunno. (For those who don't know, "unscaling", to which I referred earlier, is the property that the combo damage scaler gets reset if a projectile is onscreen while a super hits. Kirei often throws a key just before his super, Archer shoots an arrow and does Caladbolg, Shirou shoots an arrow before Caliburn, etc.) I've seen Diarmuid used disgustingly well, but I don't know anything that makes him stand out except Gáe Buidhe. (Daerg is meh at best; mana drain at the cost of mana isn't that useful for him since low-health characters without many defensive options, like Diarmuid, need mana to burst frequently.) Bazette is simply my favorite character, though I was biased since I liked her even before I played. Most of the time I played F/UC I spent practicing her*(until I could pull off things like this unscale occasionally, and more reliable combos with some degree of consistency). She's awesome. Her abare isn't up to par with high-tier characters, though, since she has to have Fragarach or runes set up to land her more serious damage. I might have access to the game again next month, by the way. EDIT: Forgot Saber Alter. She's kinda like a Berserker with projectiles, I guess. Like Leysritt, I haven't seen her played much, nor did I get to play with her much, but she seems beastly. You'd have to check tourney results for a more clear picture, though; from what I know, Archers and Lancers tended to win most tourneys when I followed them about a year or so ago.

I do believe that there's a setting to make the screen flash blue at FRC points in tutorial mode, at least when you activate the little display that shows button presses and directional inputs. Based on that, practice the timing and learn to rely on it rather than waiting for a visual cue when playing. Relying on vision will mess you up when things like Bacchus Sigh alter the screen slightly. Reflexes are pretty precise things.

Eh. That Archer landed a UBW without ending the match. No unscaled supers on either side. That Kirei's damage was crap. etc, etc. Here is a much better Archer vs a somewhat better Kirei, at least judging by the first round (don't have time to watch the rest). Dunno if the PSP version is any different, but if it's the same as the PS2 one, I played that at a friend's for a while. (Modded PS2 to bypass region lock 'n' all that stuff.) To answer character questions: God tier is basically Gilgamesh (stupidly easy infinites, ridiculous block pressure against any of the slower members of the cast, etc), Archer (just way too solid in every category), and Caster (some bad matchups like Archer, but wrecks the rest of the cast 100% of the time no save). High tier is Berserker and Saber (both all-around solid like Archer, but without ranged capabilities). Everyone else is pretty much average tier. Note that Luviagelita has a pseudo-infinite that's somewhat hard to start but braindead easy to continue. It might even be a true infinite; I'm not entirely sure, but I know my friend took off well over 2/3 of my health with it. Assassin is shit tier. Yay for great melee range but oh wait Lancer has that and is faster and has real supers and a useful activation. As for the storyline, you could just read the English patch of Fate/stay night and download all the CGs and sprites.

Eh, more than your playing, anyway. Ooh burn burn burrrrrn >_> I kid. Nice matches, everyone. And yes, commentary, when the mic was working.

It's an SNES game. If you're playing it on an emulator and your emulator of choice has netplay support, there ya go.

Eh, wasn't talking about anything from the storyline, just win quotes. I don't know enough about the storyline either, but look at things like the Jam v Jam fight end quote, or May > Baiken.

No one beats Deathscythe for ease of infinite comboing. Deathscythe's infinite combo is ridiculously easy to do and combos out of virtually any non-knockdown attack, so basically landing a standing, crouching, or jumping punch on an opponent guarantees their impending doom if you've got at least half a super bar. It was one of the first things I figured out when I used to play the game. Nonetheless, since he's got bad range and most of his better attacks knock down, he's not broken despite that.

Sprite/artwork breast size isn't the point. Anime-style artwork has almost as a rule, unrealistic breast sizes in both directions. Dialogue is all that's relevant, and May comments on Baiken's breasts while Jam talks about her own, so they both qualify automatically. I'm pretty sure there's even more dialogue on the subject that I don't remember at the moment.

...Tier list =/= matchup chart.

*wants Chipp's old 22H back* >_> I kid. But I do disagree with the suggestion of keeping opponents on the floor longer after Chipp's grab. Grab into Gamma Blade is too good to be that reliable. ^_^ I say remove or at least reduce the proration on Chipp's 2K and that alone will help tremendously in balancing him.

Not bad for 4 days in. Personally, I envy you for having Chipp and Potemkin in your top three. My overall game would probably be improved dramatically by learning Potemkin. If you've got Potemkin in your top two, I second your choice of Chipp as a third. Alternately, Millia. Most DLers would*probably suggest stopping with 2 characters, though.