Moy_X7

Well thank God for that and I hope it makes it to the final version (don't see why they would remove it).

I don't know what to think of this new Jin. I'm just gonna refrain from making any judgments until after the final location test. That new air special looks hype though and I really hope that it must be blocked high and can be used as a quick overhead off a TK motion. I'm not really hyped about the aerial Ice Arrow though. I'll just have to wait and see how useful it might be for combos but right now it stands as a lulzy anti-anti-air lol. Edit: I compiled all of the information that we know of thus far in the BB:CP Changes thread. Let me know if I missed something.

System Changes Overdrive: "Frost End" (A+B+C+D) Jin is able to freeze the opponent more than once per string if he uses Yukianesa slashes (5C, 2C, 6C, j.C, j.2C, Fubuki, Rehyou, Hizansen) and Ice Blades. Jin is invulnerable during the OD start-up. Crush Trigger (A+B) Jin grabs his scabbard for a while and quickly unsheathes Yukianesa. As all other Crush Trigger moves, it costs 25 Heat to use, Guard Crushes on block and can be used to extend combos. Seems to have a very long start-up and the move can be "charged". CT > 6C works. New Moves Hizansen/j.214C: 1000 Damage/P1 90/P2 92 Jin slashes diagonally downward and makes the opponent slide on the ground on hit. This move seems to halt Jin's decent and it seems like it will serve as a potential anti-anti-air tool. It has a lot of recovery which makes it impossible to follow-up with a combo. It seems like it will be the aerial combo finisher in this game since the j.236X series have been removed. This move does NOT count as an overhead. Hizangeki/j.214D: 1184 Damage/P1 85 (1st hit)/P1 99 (2nd hit)/P2 94 EX Hizansen, 2-hit move, it costs 25 Heat to use. The first hit of Hizangeki has a small hit-box that seems to hit slightly above Jin and freezes the opponent, while the 2nd hit causes the opponent to slide which allows for a follow-up combo. The 2nd hit of this move counts as an overhead and it has a 22F start-up. The 2nd hit ground bounces during OD. Aerial Ice Arrow: 800 Minimum Damage Jin shoots an ice arrow using CSE j.236A's angle and trajectory. Changes to Existing Moves Normals 6A: Causes hard knockdown on an airborne opponent but it cannot be followed up, think of it as CSII 6A. More frame advantage on hit. 2C: Has gained the ability to jump cancel on block again. Lost its FC properties. Head attribute I-frames start on frame 9. 5B: Has lost its ability to jump cancel on block and it's -6 on block now. 5C: 5C > Rising j.2C combos are no longer possible. 6C: Lost its dash cancel property. It now launches almost as high and as far as CSII's 6C, which means that 5C > 6C > 2D on crouching opponents is guaranteed to work. 6C > 214B only works near and in the corner. 6C > 6B gatling added, 6C > 6B combos in the corner. j.C: More untechable time on CH. Drives All Drives get a P2 of 92 during OD and have more frame advantage and longer freeze duration during OD. 5D is now a FC and it's -9 on block now. 2D is +3 on block now. Specials 236X Series 236A/j.236A: 236A is the same as before. j.236A is now what used to be j.236C in CSE (horizontal path Ice Blade). 236B/j.236B: Removed from the game. 236C/j.236C: Removed from the game. 236D/j.236D: 236D can now be "charged". 236D flies at CSE's 236B's speed while 236[D] flies at CSE 236D speed. j.236D no longer fires 3 Ice Blades, instead it fires CSE's 236D using CSE's j.236A angle. The regular version of 236D is negative on block, whereas the 236[D] version is positive. Both 236D and 236[D] can be dash canceled. 214X Series j.214A/B/C/D have been removed from the game. The new aerial combo finisher is now Hizansen (j.214C). 214A: Command removed, this move is now 214B. 214B: The first hit of 214B hits low. 214B is what used to be 214A in CSE. By pushing the C button after 214B, you'll get the 2nd hit of the original Ice Car. You'll now get both hits of 214B to combo, no matter how heavily prorated the combo may be. 214C: 214C and j.214C have been removed from the game. j.214C is now the motion for the new move, Hizansen. 214D: You can now choose whether to use the 2nd hit of 214D or not by pushing the C button after the first hit. That which means a higher combo potential mid-screen. The 2nd hit of 214D wall sticks in the corner. 214D causes an anywhere wall bounce during OD. j.214D: j.214D has been removed from the game, j.214D is now the motion for the new move, Hizangeki. 623X Series: [*]623A: Command removed, this move is now used by inputting the 623B motion. [*]623B: This is now what used to be 623A in CSE. Which basically means that 623B has been removed from the game. This move has head I-frames starting on frame 4. [*]623C: This move can now be followed-up with 5C without the need to dash-in on CH. This move is now a SMP move. [*]623D: The first hit is a SMP move. P1 reduced from 90 to 70. The 2nd hit launches the opponent during OD. Sekkajin [*]Sekkajin's command is now 22C. Sekkajin hits 4 times very rapidly and causes a stagger instead of launching the opponent. You'll have to spend 25 Heat in order to use its follow-up by pushing the D button. [*]The Sekkajin follow-up uses Yukikaze's attack animation and launches the opponent after Jin sheathes his sword. You can go into an air combo after Jin sheathes his sword and launches the opponent. You get additional damage during OD. [*]Sekkajin blows back airborne opponents and causes a wall bounce in the corner. [*]Sekkajin can only be used at a specific range from the opponent; if you're too far from the opponent, Jin will just sheathe his sword and Sekkajin will not activate. Distortion Drives [*]Ice Wave: This move receives an automatic follow-up when used during OD. The follow-up is similar to Jin's AH. [*]Ice Arrow: 1000 minimum damage [*]Yukikaze: Damage reduced from 3K to 2.6K. More damage and a new animation during OD. Proration Changes from CSE to CP [TABLE=CLASS: GRID, ALIGN: LEFT] [/TH] 2A 2B 2C 2D P1 80 > 100 80 > 90 80 80 > 90 P2 82 > 75 86 > 85 89 80 > 82 [/TABLE] [TABLE=CLASS: GRID, ALIGN: LEFT] 5A 5B 5C 5D P1 80 > 100 90 > 100 90 > 100 80 > 100 P2 82 > 75 86 > 85 85 > 89 80 > 82 [/TABLE] [TABLE=CLASS: GRID, ALIGN: LEFT] 3C P1 100 > 95 P2 84 > 89 [/TABLE] [TABLE=CLASS: GRID, ALIGN: LEFT] 6A 6B 6C 6D P1 80 100 100 100 P2 92 92 90 > 94 80 > 82 [/TABLE] [TABLE=CLASS: GRID, ALIGN: LEFT] j.A j.B j.C j.2C j.D P1 90 90 70 > 90 90 100 > 90 P2 82 > 75 86 > 85 89 89 95 > 89 [/TABLE] [TABLE=CLASS: GRID, ALIGN: LEFT] Throw P1 90 > 100 P2 55 > 60 [/TABLE] [TABLE=CLASS: GRID, ALIGN: LEFT] 236A j.236A (old j.236C) 623B 623C 214B 22C Sekkajin P1 90 80 > 90 60 > 80 50 > 60 80 > 95 100 > 95 P2 89 90 > 92 92 > 82 92 > 82 90 > 92 95 > 89 [/TABLE] [TABLE=CLASS: GRID, ALIGN: LEFT] [TH]236D j.236D 623D (both hits) 214D 214D~C P1 90 > 85 90 > 85 90 > 70 80 > 85 80 > 85 P2 87 > 82 90 > 82 92 90 > 92 80 > 92 [/TABLE] Raw CP Damage/Proration List 同技乗算補正=same move proration 5A 300 100％75％ 5B 350、250 100％85％(once) 5C 710 100％89％ 5D 800 100％82％ 2A 300 100％75％ 2B 500 90％85％ 2C 720 80％89％ 2D 720 90％82％ JA 300 90％75％ JB 540 90％85％ JC 700 90％89％ J2C 700 90％89％ JD 740 90％82％ 6A 680 80％92％ 6B 690 100％92％ 3C 650 95％89％ 6C 920 100％94％ 6D 810 100％82％ forward throw 投げ1400(0+0+1400)100％100％、60％ back throw 4投げ1400(0+1400)100％60％ air throw 空投げ1400(0+1400)100％60％ ct クラッシュトリガー1000※80％100％キャラ guard cancel カウンターアサルト0?? green burst ブレイクバースト(青)0?? ground ice sword 氷翔剣500 90％89％ air ice sword 空中 氷翔剣600 90％92％ fubuki 吹雪800 80％82％※同技乗算補正 rehhyou 裂氷1100 60％82％※同技乗算補正霧槍 ice car霧槍尖晶斬780 95％92％※同技乗算補正 follow up追加200??※固定200ダメージ※同技乗算補正 hizansen 氷斬閃1000※90％92％※同技乗算補正 sekka 雪華塵220 95％89％*(once)※同技乗算補正 followup 追加?(?+?)?? ex ice sword 氷翔撃(地)800×385％82％ air ex ice sword 氷翔撃(空)800×3全85％82％ hirensou both hits 氷連双1196(700+1100)70％92％※同技乗算補正 hirensou 2nd hit max charge 氷連双 2段目(最大溜め)1100 70％92％スライドダウン ex ice car 霧槍 突晶撃640 85％92％※同技乗算補正 follow up 追加900 85％92％ hizangeki 氷斬撃1184(300+1500)85％99％、94％※同技乗算補正 hiyoku 氷翼月鳴2368*(?＋?＋?)??※下限ダメージ*1000↑*(?＋?＋?) air hiyoku 空中 氷翼月鳴2368*(?＋?＋?)??下限ダメージ 800↑(?＋?＋?) touga 凍牙氷刃?×ｎ??飛び道具※下限ダメージ ?×n yukikaze 虚空刃 雪風3060(100+3700)100％100％、60％(50) asstroll 煉獄氷夜即死－－ Location Test Videos Location Test #1 Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE91DF53AE4BB3DC8 Location Test #2 Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL81679F877834C749 Location Test #4 Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLS_k68KTBm5udUjLKtDY-Tcvt2lVDBQ9r

lol Yukiko's has a 33F start-up, damn thing is slower than Rachel's 4B. I probably won't use that thing outside of reset attempts or against people who simply cannot block at all XD By the way, are all AoAs punishable on block?

Don't get too caught up in trying to use Fire Boost and don't use SB Fire Boost, the ridiculous amount of blue life that you get in addition to having to spend 25 SP for SB Fire Boost is simply not worth it. If you want to safely use Fire Boost, use it either after a knockdown + Agi oki or if you get them to block Maragi. As for zoning with fans, you have to keep in mind your current position in the screen and the amount of recovery that you get from any of the specific fans. I play Jin in BB, so I know that I can be punished for a whiffed TK j.236C or a j.236X at specific sections of the screen. Getting a good read is important but knowing when to and when not to use the fans is also crucial. Yukiko can't zone as well as say, someone like Lambda in BB. The point of Yukiko's zoning is to get her opponent to make mistakes and behave in a certain way. Throw a fan, see how they react to it, and intercept their approach.

Although I would agree with you that they should use more common terms like a "reversal" to describe things like the "R-Action", I don't really agree with the commentators having to explain every single little thing that happens. Let's take a look at this fictional scenario... Commentator(s) - "Yukiko has been inflicted with the Berserk status ailment. YOU BETTER MASH THAT REVERSAL YUKIKO LOL. Also, for those who don't know, the Berserk status ailment disables the victim's ability to block but boosts their damage output by 20%. *Random Ignorant Stream Monster joins the stream* Commentator(s) - "Man, that Yukiko needs to start baiting Teddie's Decoy reversal. She is now under the Berserk status effect again." Random Ignorant Stream Monster - WTF does the Berserk status do? *People in the chat explain what the effect does as the commentator already explained it before the stream monster came in" I don't think that having the commentators explain every little basic thing, every single time, is as constructive as you make it out to be. For one, it would be a ridiculous thing to do. Two, it would make the stream hella fucking boring. That's where the members of the chat come in. Some will be assholes about it and some will be nice about it but either way, they'll explain to the noob what has already been explained. Well, that's assuming that the chatroom isn't flooded by stupid shit. It really depends on the stream. If it's a stream featuring an incredible popular game, with a huge audience, then you should at least know the terminology used in said game as well as the basics because the chat will be flooded with stupid ass comments and the commentators will most likely not explain every single basic thing that goes on. If you try asking a question in a flooded chat-room, there's a 90% chance that the people there will ignore you because they're too focused on the match or because your comment has been swept away by the flood of comments. If they do happen to explain a scenario, you log in, the scenario happens again and it has already been explained, then you're fucked. If it's a more niche game with a smaller audience which is being streamed, then you can get away with being ignorant because the chat room will not be as flooded and your questions will most likely be answered. To be frank, if people leave a stream because they don't know what something means or how something works and boo-hoo they weren't there to hear the explanation then oh fucking well. "Good riddance" I might add. If you're curious enough, ask in the chat, don't just leave. If you just leave, then it really doesn't seem like you were that interested in the game to begin with.

I've never been a fan of charge characters but I might give her a spin as a sub.

I actually think that it was a waste for you to delete all that info but no biggie since it's on the wiki. I personally don't mind (my Jin combo thread has PAGES worth of deleted posts). That's the price that comes wih being a mod. "We see dead people" and shit lol.

I almost forgot you could do shit like JC a move and cancel it into a ground special through a TK motion. Don't remember ever seeing that since Bang and his TK 623B combos.

I'm assuming that you mean Rising j.A > j.B from a jump cancel. Actually Shin, you should be doing j.A > j.2C because j.2C is faster as both a cross-up and a jump-in. If Jin does JC > j.A > j.2C and for some reason you're caught blocking high, the j.A will tag you and j.2C > j.C will become a relatively tight block-string. If he whiffs the j.A because you'll most likely be blocking low, you should be able to react and there are a couple of things that could happen: 1) If you're late to react and the j.2C cross-ups, if you try to do 6A to AA you'll get 4A and you'll get tagged by j.2C. 2) If you're quick enough to react, even if you get "4A" when you tried to use 6A you'll still tag him out of j.2C start-up 3) If he doesn't cross-up, you'll tag him with 6A. Scenario number two is highly unlikely to happen unless your reactions are godlike and if you risk it, you'll most likely get tagged by j.2C and eat a nasty j.2C CH combo. You could also just try to 5A on reaction but again, if you're too late with that, you'll get fucked up. The reason why I would not use j.A > j.B is because even a late 5A beats that for free, cross-up or no cross-up. j.B is a really bad air-to-ground in this game. Edit: Also while I was at it, I tried messing with that GH > Follow-up > 66 5D combo that you said you were having trouble with. lol, what's so hard about it? I did it on my first try.

I doubt it and I don't think she's alone when it comes to not having an AUB.

I hoped that I was quick enough with my edit but I wasn't lol Yeah but what that means is that she has no viable air-to-grounds at all lol. We could always try to condition the opponent into easing down on their AAs with the j.B series though. Edit: I just looked at the other characters' j.A/j.Bs and some of them have worse jump-ins than Yukiko lol.

lol, Yukiko's Dia has an unexpectedly high vertical hit-box.

Dem hit-boxes: j.A: http://www.dustloop.com/guides/p4arena/hitbox/Yukiko/j.A.html Man, it's CSE Jin j.B all over again. The hurt-box on the fan is bigger than the actual hit-box lol. lol Dia: http://www.dustloop.com/guides/p4arena/hitbox/Yukiko/BD.html It's like a better version of Jin's DP C: crappy horizontal hit-box, godlike vertical hit-box lol. That vertical hit-box is ridiculous, I might just use this one as an AA from time to time and see how that works out XD Her 5A and sweep have godlike hit-boxes, let's just see just how fast (or how slow) the start-up for these moves are later on.

Man, everyone would gravitate towards the second, easy-mode/easy-win character... which I don't think there is one since Hakumen requires quite a bit of execution and Valkenhayn requires a bit more thought (and execution). No one wants to play Arakune's unorthodox self either lol.

I can imagine it, you were subjected to heavy pressure and had to deal with instant OHs (even to this day) lol. Yet the Backdash/IB > butterchurning was strong in you lol.

Oh great, more Ragnas popping out of the woodwork lol.

Yeah, I remember Zeth telling you to be more random lol. Oh Platinum, she's such a fun character with her various items. They all have a fun secondary use as traps, AAs, IAD cross-ups, 236A cross-up setups, unblockable setups, etc. Yup, gotta respect Plat's j.C because it will do too much damage near and in the corner. Gotta spam that 6A that God gave you. Thing is fast enough to recover on whiff and throw another one lol.

Sweet, I hope he gets that to work. It would save all of us a lot of grief.

lol, we're just going to have to trial and error our way out of this one. That or politely ask Kurushii and co to work on finding out the frame data.

lol Fire Break > Fan block-stun > Maragidyne UB It's going to be hella fun.

You were playing random as hell out there and Platinum feeds on random lol. Don't know what to tell you, I was too tired to process things right.

GGs D_E Playing BB on no sleep and two back-to-back work out sessions was lulz. I'm over here going "what did I just do and why did it do so much damage?" lol.

Alright, I'll be on in a few.

lmao, sounds tough. No biggie, I plan to relax a bit myself.