[CF] Blazblue CENTRAL FICTION: News and Gameplay Discussion

[Zouf]

I doubt Izanami has anything to do with Aegis, since we already got Izayoi who has the same mechanic as the robot from persona 3.

She probably has some sort of "flight mode", yet again we didn't see enough to judge what exactly is her gameplay.

But yes, Nine is a Margaret.

 

[NaotoKuroShiro]

33 minutes ago, Zouf said:

I doubt Izanami has anything to do with Aegis, since we already got Izayoi who has the same mechanic as the robot from persona 3.

She probably has some sort of "flight mode", yet again we didn't see enough to judge what exactly is her gameplay.

But yes, Nine is a Margaret.

 

glad I'm not the only one who got that from her.

[TD]

Spoiler

Nine is very clearly Margaret... Tall, reversible gatlings, elemental magic, blatant ripoff of GOD HAND... Even the losing poses are similar 

[Moy_X7]

So I finally get my playable Saya... just to find out that her battle outfit is hideous. That unicorn headgear is a major "ugh", I would take her default outfit and design any day over her battle outfit, FeelsBadMan. 

Oh well, I'll still give her a try because she looks like hella fun at least. 

[Poultrygeist]

Can I just say that I'm extremely happy they aren't doing ridiculous balance changes between acts.  There's no reason to because the amount of time between them is so short, but you know if they listened to silly people on the internet they would have gutted Nine already lol.

[NaotoKuroShiro]

20 minutes ago, Poultrygeist said:

Can I just say that I'm extremely happy they aren't doing ridiculous balance changes between acts.  There's no reason to because the amount of time between them is so short, but you know if they listened to silly people on the internet they would have gutted Nine already lol.

So all the people complaining she's too op including japanese players are silly?

no need to be so coy, try fully saying what you actually want to say

[Myoro]

21 minutes ago, Poultrygeist said:

Can I just say that I'm extremely happy they aren't doing ridiculous balance changes between acts.  There's no reason to because the amount of time between them is so short, but you know if they listened to silly people on the internet they would have gutted Nine already lol.

Keep holdin' yer breath, Act II hasn't come out quite yet.

Still I don't think they will do crazy balance changes.

[Poultrygeist]

33 minutes ago, NaotoKuroShiro said:

So all the people complaining she's too op including japanese players are silly?

no need to be so coy, try fully saying what you actually want to say

Yes, people calling a character OP after less than a month are silly.  It doesn't matter who they are.  You can ditch your smarmy attitude though, I wasn't implying anything more than what I said in plain text.

[Volt]

So Izanami can float cancel. And looks pretty brutal too. The footage we'll get next week will be crazy. I still hope she can't spam projectiles with Float Cancels.

[NaotoKuroShiro]

2 minutes ago, Poultrygeist said:

Yes, people calling a character OP after less than a month are silly.  It doesn't matter who they are.  You can ditch your smarmy attitude though, I wasn't implying anything more than what I said in plain text.

Oh I wasn't being smarmy I was just saying the people who actually have been playing the game in the arcades for a while now, have much more knowledge and experience and shouldn't really be called silly as opposed to those who have no idea what they are talking about since obviously they actually have played the character

But I'm too tired from work to continue this charade, I'd rather not stall this thread with silly and unrelated squabble, I don't want to upset any moderators.

[BlackYakuzu94]

5 minutes ago, NaotoKuroShiro said:

Oh I wasn't being smarmy I was just saying the people who actually have been playing the game in the arcades for a while now, have much more knowledge and experience and shouldn't really be called silly as opposed to those who have no idea what they are talking about since obviously they actually have played the character

But I'm too tired from work to continue this charade, I'd rather not stall this thread with silly and unrelated squabble, I don't want to upset any moderators.

Uh...I don't think you need to play a character to speculate how good or bad they are lol, visuals and whatnot.

[Poultrygeist]

I just looked at Jourdal's channel and LITERALLY every single match was nothing but Nine mirrors going to a double down every time because she's just that OP.  U rite homie, this bitch OP as fuck, Combofiend pls nerf.

[NaotoKuroShiro]

9 minutes ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

Uh...I don't think you need to play a character to speculate how good or bad they are lol, visuals and whatnot.

I personally would go after what people playing the arcades have to say

but either way, you do have a point

[BlackYakuzu94]

Just now, NaotoKuroShiro said:

I personally would go after what people playing the arcades have to say

but either way, you do have a point

I mean yea, obviously people playing the game will have a better idea but things like normals, specials, and setups we can visually see and make educated guesses on how strong or weak a character can be.

Like, I don't need to play the game now to know Nine's normals are extremely good because of their reach and her ability to convert off of any of them into knockdown and therefore some okizeme. 

Not to say people shouldn't go by what players with experience in the arcades are saying, but that doesn't mean people can't speculate and make their own (hopefully thought out) assumptions.

[NaotoKuroShiro]

1 hour ago, BlackYakuzu94 said:

I mean yea, obviously people playing the game will have a better idea but things like normals, specials, and setups we can visually see and make educated guesses on how strong or weak a character can be.

Like, I don't need to play the game now to know Nine's normals are extremely good because of their reach and her ability to convert off of any of them into knockdown and therefore some okizeme. 

Not to say people shouldn't go by what players with experience in the arcades are saying, but that doesn't mean people can't speculate and make their own (hopefully thought out) assumptions.

I agree definitely, it doesn't need to be said that people can speculate as much as they want, my last few comments were more personal and weren't directed at all those who have or haven't played the game as I was called silly for speculating myself, I regret being so immature and I'm sorry for anyone who might have misinterpreted what I said or took it a negative way

edit- if any one still wants to argue about this with me, please feel free to hit me up with a message, otherwise this thread will end up with unrelated discussion and waste others' time

[Poultrygeist]

You realize what you're saying also works against you, right?  Since you are not playing yourself, how do you know Nine is too strong?  You don't, and if she is as strong as you say then why do I not see her more?  Why is everyone not dropping their character for her?  No doubt she's extremely strong but you specifically called her overpowered, which is a knee jerk reaction to a character who is not even a month old.

[NaotoKuroShiro]

its called an opinion, one which I based on many different things, including my own speculation and others, as someone who subbed marg in persona, I was excited for nine until I realized just how similar she is to marg to "me" as I thought a month ago, emphasis on me as I mentioned that many times before that is my opinion only yet I was called silly by the likes of you for saying that, I didn't even mention she was op until now because of my gripe with you and your elitist attitude, its funny how that came the reason for this silliness but it has nothing to do with why I have one with you in the first place

I still need to remove her from my sig, now can we please stop with this and call a truce or something of the sort? but as I said if anyone still wants to argue about this or anything else unrelated please hit me up with a message

is there any news on an Izanami thread soon? I would like to help out as I did with the other CF threads

[TD]

Nine isn't op, her weaknesses leashes are just barely restraining her from top tierdom. No to say she cant move up as the setups become more fleshed out, and people really start learning all the kunzite mixups (seriously top 5 normals in the game). No question she is definitely not below a tier, not even a-. They did an amazing job in this character, all around

[Dark Ranger88]

>2016

>Not being able to discuss ideas without subtly insulting each other

>Stay classy Dustloop

 

If I recall, this same "She's OP," "No she's not, you're just reacting too quickly," debate happened with Nine's daughter too. People were arguing up until the point when Pain swept through a major with his eyes closed.

 

Also, obligatory double post because mobile...

[Dark Ranger88]

>2016

>Not being able to discuss ideas without subtly insulting each other

>Stay classy Dustloop

 

If I recall, this same "She's OP," "No she's not, you're just reacting too quickly," debate happened with Nine's daughter too. People were arguing up until the point when Pain swept through a major with his eyes closed.

 

Also, obligatory double post because mobile...

[Airk]

21 hours ago, Poultrygeist said:

Yes, people calling a character OP after less than a month are silly.  It doesn't matter who they are.  You can ditch your smarmy attitude though, I wasn't implying anything more than what I said in plain text.

It was obvious Kokonoe was busted from like, day 3.  Would it have been wrong to not drag their feet for six months and hope that the players would somehow magically discover tech to fix it?  Did we need to wait around for her going ham at majors and facerolling top tier players with very good characters?  I don't see why.

Historically, characters that are obviously strong (If you are going to argue that Nine isn't obviously strong, I'm going to accuse you of discussing in bad faith) tend to get STRONGER over time, not weaker. 

In fact, which characters in the history of this game have started off with a bunch of people saying "This character is SUPER GOOD!" and ended up in 'Good enough' tier? I can't actually think of ANY.  The closest you get is times when you have characters where people say "X might finally be decent!" and then "Nope, LOL, still T-tier."  Characters who have good tools only get better as people figure that out.  Characters with indifferent tools get worse as people figure out how to deal with them.

It's almost never too early to nerf a top tier or buff a bottom tier, IMHO.  You just need to do it carefully.  Which Arc is surprisingly good at, since their nerf/buff technique, as often as not is "Well, we nerfed/buffed character X, but we're concerned that might be too heavyhanded, so we buffed/nerfed them in other ways." which results in no noticeable change in characters' tier placement.

That said, I don't know enough about Nine to be a real authority here, but I'm not really seeing a lot of disadvantages in her design.

[TekkamanArk]

6 hours ago, Airk said:

It was obvious Kokonoe was busted from like, day 3.  Would it have been wrong to not drag their feet for six months and hope that the players would somehow magically discover tech to fix it?  Did we need to wait around for her going ham at majors and facerolling top tier players with very good characters?  I don't see why.

Historically, characters that are obviously strong (If you are going to argue that Nine isn't obviously strong, I'm going to accuse you of discussing in bad faith) tend to get STRONGER over time, not weaker. 

In fact, which characters in the history of this game have started off with a bunch of people saying "This character is SUPER GOOD!" and ended up in 'Good enough' tier? I can't actually think of ANY.  The closest you get is times when you have characters where people say "X might finally be decent!" and then "Nope, LOL, still T-tier."  Characters who have good tools only get better as people figure that out.  Characters with indifferent tools get worse as people figure out how to deal with them.

It's almost never too early to nerf a top tier or buff a bottom tier, IMHO.  You just need to do it carefully.  Which Arc is surprisingly good at, since their nerf/buff technique, as often as not is "Well, we nerfed/buffed character X, but we're concerned that might be too heavyhanded, so we buffed/nerfed them in other ways." which results in no noticeable change in characters' tier placement.

That said, I don't know enough about Nine to be a real authority here, but I'm not really seeing a lot of disadvantages in her design.

Iceman in MVC2 was considered top tier at launch, Sentinel was also considered a joke at the beginning because he was so big that he'd just be a sitting duck.

Edited January 24, 2016 by TekkamanArk
Additional information

[Narroo]

2 hours ago, TekkamanArk said:

Iceman in MVC2 was considered top tier at launch, Sentinel was also considered a joke at the beginning because he was so big that he'd just be a sitting duck.

Characters being considered bad at launch is a bit different; there's always room to discover tech later on which may not be obvious, like glitches.  Glitches, glitches, and more glitches.  Glitches and oversight is what really made the best characters in MvC2 so great.  That's why Iceman wasn't really that good in MvC2, because they didn't discover crazy gimmicks for him, and the amount of exploits that the top tier characters relied on in the end was rather bizarre, to say the least.

 

In general, if a character shortly after release is performing well in an established game, they can be expected to continue to perform well unless someone discovers an exploit or technique that severely works against the character.

[Airk]

Additionally, it's not 1998 anymore guys.  People figure stuff out way faster now, and share it way faster.

And anyway, before anyone trots out any more tired examples from Marvel games (which seem to be the ONLY games anyone uses for examples of changing tier lists), there's already one HUGE factor stomping all over that.  They release yearly updates/changes/rearranges anyway.  That blows the whole "hey, you're not giving people enough time to develop an MvC2 style evolving meta!" thing out the window. There will never be time for that unless Arcsys goes out of business or stops making BB games.  (Aside: How much did the tier list of GG change between the last release and Xrd?)

If you're going to do "yearly" updates anyway, honestly, I think it makes more sense to do them gradually over that year.  But that doesn't sell another $40 disc.  On the other hand, having to buy another $40 disc every year has chased a lot of people away from this game.

[JustaMaskedFreak]

Well, Izanami already is in the character roster in the website.

http://www.blazblue.jp/cf/ac/character/izanami.html

Have fun.

And Thanks to MaximusMurkimus to tell it