The Good, the Bad, and Ugly as Hell Baiken Matchups

[Zakuta Asura]

It doesn't really end there - and besides, Baiken needs to actually get in to do anything.

[Orion]

well, I don't just spam it. lmao there's more to it:grin:

[Honnou]

Johnny could probably just jackhound you if you kept spamming mats. As long as it touched Baiken before the mat touches Johnny, it would work.

[Hellmonkey]

Johnny could probably just jackhound you if you kept spamming mats. As long as it touched Baiken before the mat touches Johnny, it would work.

they always think that, and always get countered by it. It doesn't work.

[Zakuta Asura]

Well yeah, Jackhound wouldn't work - at least in the middle of doing an IAD Tatami as Johnny is still travelling forward, he doesn't magically teleport behind you. He'll get a CH and eat a fat combo.

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

baiken doesnt have to do much to beat johnny at all. Before the johnny player ralize he cant spam jackhound against iadback tatami he's gonna lose 35-60%+ lifebar. When he does realize this 2s, 5s, 5hs will stuff his approaches and if he jumps at you run under and poke him to death. This matchup is rediculous easy. I almost wanna say its 8-2.

how does baiken beat slash ky?

*SDV*

[Hellmonkey]

baiken doesnt have to do much to beat johnny at all. Before the johnny player ralize he cant spam jackhound against iadback tatami he's gonna lose 35-60%+ lifebar. When he does realize this 2s, 5s, 5hs will stuff his approaches and if he jumps at you run under and poke him to death. This matchup is rediculous easy. I almost wanna say its 8-2.

how does baiken beat slash ky?

*SDV*

hope you're kidding. I'd say it's 6-4 in his favor, if he knows the matchup. His unique pressure allows him to bait alpha counters easily, making them pretty much useless if he's being cautious.

I'd say the Ky matchup is 6-4 in Baikens favor. Any stunedge gets owned by iad j.S if you can do it fast enough. You just need to play safe when he's on the ground. Also, watch for the sweep (236k) because it goes under chain and through some other moves -_-

run up FD brake slash alpha counter is an excellent tool against him as well.

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

hmm...actually i wasnt. Maybe i just dont respect johnny's game but for good reason cause i rarely fall for his shit. i think his pressure is too unique and his "mixup" isn't all that great. I mean he's gonna run in do a low, instant ensengna, or throw. How does baiken not stop that.

*SDV*

[MoonLessNight]

Actually jackhound would work well vs IAD back tatami on almost every sort of situation, (obviously the further the better), in that case. What makes people think that it wouldn't? Johnny is one of Baiken's worse matchups I would have to say...very frustrating match. Frustrating but not nearly as frustrating as Baiken vs Jam. Watch for openings and counter accordingly and what not I suppose...at least what I try to do anyway but...the hardest thing about Baiken vs Johnny is getting in appropriately imo.

I have to disagree and say 6-4 in Ky's favor if the player knows the matchup for the same reasons Johnny is 6-4 in his favor. Ky can out perform Baiken in just about everything strategic wise. Better anti airs, stronger ground game, better wakeup game and every combo is knockdown blah blah blah. Ky can completely and does completely shut down her air game so you can't take to the air too much. Play keep away too much then he can play around with zoning stun edges and wait for Baiken to mess up somewhere. Countering too much will get you in trouble later on in the matches (although running up for a counter can catch most players off guard) and if the Ky knows what he's doing he won't leave many holes for a Baiken to counter through. I have to strongly say that Ky is one hella stupid ass matchup for Baiken when the Ky knows what he is doing.

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

I just dont know bout johnny i guess. Im extremely stubborn till proven otherwise, hell i used to think baiken v. pot was in baiken favor lol. Ive just been beatin johnnys with baiken since XX, so maybe i just have that characters number while others struggle against him.

Oh and bout baiken v. Ky is 6-4...how you figure when ky can throw whatever out and has enough time to recover and react to whatever baiken does? Id go as far to say this matchup is 7-3 or 8-2 ky's favor. yeah you can iad over SE with J.s then what? a good ky player should have you in a position that at worst he would get hit by the J.s but not get knocked down from yozansen or J.d and in most case from my experiences thats way to risky cause if i miss time it i eat a 6p plus a 1/4 lifebar combo with knockdown and im back to square one.

Lets say you do run up dash cancel into counter for a knockdown, then what? Your only and i mean only option is to drop a mat on him go for rushdown. Oh but you better be on point and not mess it up cause in some way shape or form if you do you are gonna eat a VT or the sweep move(which can lead to 1/4lifebar combo) or even just a normal combo into sweep for what...you guessed it another knockdown plus you are back to square mofo'n one. I SAY THIS IS BAIKEN'S ABSOLUTE WORST MATCHUP with jam and pot/slayer(the slayer fight is definately more winnable now tho since slayer doesnt get the free dizzy from one pilebunker) followin up close behind.

*SDV*

[Hellmonkey]

Oh and bout baiken v. Ky is 6-4...how you figure when ky can throw whatever out and has enough time to recover and react to whatever baiken does?

that's not the case at all, a lot of his moves are punishable.

Id go as far to say this matchup is 7-3 or 8-2 ky's favor. yeah you can iad over SE with J.s then what?

Then j.P j.K for a launch, or j.P j.S land 2D and keep going, into 30-60% combo depending on how close to a corner you are and your tension

a good ky player should have you in a position that at worst he would get hit by the J.s but not get knocked down from yozansen or J.d and in most case from my experiences thats way to risky cause if i miss time it i eat a 6p plus a 1/4 lifebar combo with knockdown and im back to square one.

If you time it correctly that's not a problem.

Lets say you do run up dash cancel into counter for a knockdown, then what? Your only and i mean only option is to drop a mat on him go for rushdown.

You can FRC it and dustloop if close to a corner, or for some more damage midscreen. You could tick throw after the mat. You could bait an uppercut, which gives you a free 6HS -> TONS of damage...

Oh but you better be on point and not mess it up cause in some way shape or form if you do you are gonna eat a VT or the sweep move(which can lead to 1/4lifebar combo) or even just a normal combo into sweep for what...you guessed it another knockdown plus you are back to square mofo'n one.

Baiting an uppercut will give you a lot more damage on him than him hitting you with one.

I SAY THIS IS BAIKEN'S ABSOLUTE WORST MATCHUP with jam and pot/slayer(the slayer fight is definately more winnable now tho since slayer doesnt get the free dizzy from one pilebunker) followin up close behind.

I'd say Jam-Baiken is about even, Pot and Slayer aren't great, but they're winnable. Also, I'm not sure about which Johnny players you've played against, but it doesn't sound like they knew much about the Baiken Johnny matchup, and therefore really aren't great to base the odds between the two characters on. While it is true that Ky's anti-airs ruin Baiken's air game, all that means is spend less time in the air. If uppercut or sweep on wakeup is a problem for you, you may just need work on your okizeme.

Actually jackhound would work well vs IAD back tatami on almost every sort of situation, (obviously the further the better), in that case. What makes people think that it wouldn't? Johnny is one of Baiken's worse matchups I would have to say...very frustrating match. Frustrating but not nearly as frustrating as Baiken vs Jam. Watch for openings and counter accordingly and what not I suppose...at least what I try to do anyway but...the hardest thing about Baiken vs Johnny is getting in appropriately imo.

Jackhound is awful vs. Baiken. I don't see what's so frustrating about the matchup other than you have to use alpha counters VERY sparingly because they're easily baited. Be patient and look for openings and you shouldn't have a problem.

[MoonLessNight]

I agree with Monkey and say tighten up the okizeme or whatever with whatever you dish out effectively. Ky shouldn't get too many VT's in on wakeup haha but I've been there before so I feel ya.

Aside from the fact that a well used jackhound can completely fuck you over all over the damn place on the ground, jackhound only adds to the list of why this is a match is in johnny's favor I would say. Personally don't think IAD tatami is safe against Johnny in any situation unless it's full screen but then that would be pointless so...maybe certain distances but spam? no I don't think so. I don't think jackhound is awful against baiken at all but that's just my opinion. At least you reiterated what I said about the matchup. You don't see the frustration from my point of view (of course) but you understand what I meant...so I guess that's important as long as you know where I'm coming from haha.

[MoonLessNight]

Be patient and look for openings and you shouldn't have a problem.

That's exactly what is so frustrating and boring haha btw imo. :grin:

[Hellmonkey]

Honestly I can't think of a time johnny's jackhound has beat my iad back tatami, I'll test in training when I get my ps2 hooked up here.

[Orion]

jackhound doesn't have invincibility frames when he disappears, does it?

[Zakuta Asura]

You can hit Johnny when he does Jackhound. He may be invisible, but he's still a target as he only dashes right past you - he doesn't teleport.

I don't think Baiken beats Ky in terms of match-ups. Ky v Baiken wasn't in Baiken's favour and in XX/ I don't think much has changed, only both characters can do more damage/do better stuff. Not to mention Ky has a lot more range than Baiken (that equals damage combos)...it's not going to be an easy fight.

[THE SERAPHIC 1]

The johnny's ive played against may not be the best but i did beat kenmastersx with what i said do in the matchup earlier :china:

yeah i still gotta work on my oki game with baiken, its definately my weakest area.

A couple vids of my baiken from the NC gamefrog tourney should be up soon, so give me all the constructive criticism i can get!

*SDV*

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

How does a good Baiken handle Robo-Ky?

Normally I Tatami or iad. jS, jP, or whatever into a jK launch jS->dust loop for most of my damage. I can't Tatami->dust loop Robo-Ky's fat ass, though, and airdashing in like that isn't generally a good idea (lots of HS, 2369+S, 623+S/HS, and 6P). Is there someway to catch Robo-Ky after a Tatami for a dust loop other than FRC'ing the Tatami?

What other sorts of strategies or tricks work well against Robo-Ky? I know nearly everyone is going to say iad. Tatami, but I really need to practice the input more.

[HmR.kS]

You probably cannot DL Robo-Ky because of his heavy weight. If you do not know this yet, Robo-Ky is the second heaviest character in the game.

Instead of doing j.S -> j.D, you might want to do a j.P before the j.S so you, and Robo-Ky, can fly higher and you will be able to air dash easier to follow-up the first loop.

[Zakuta Asura]

Actually, Robo-Ky can be hit with S(f) after a tatami if close enough and if you're in the corner and the situation presents itself, you can do Tatami, S(f) jc -> DL. Same goes for the midcreen tatami loops.

[Hellmonkey]

In general, you don't want to jump in or iad in at any decent Robo Ky. I know this from experience. Be very cautious and do not get hit by robo dash. Resist the urge to burst when he's just pressuring you. He sucks in Slash, just play it safe and you won't have a problem.

FD braking and kabari are your friend. Finish mid-screen air combos with j.S j.P j.S j.D (he's heavy enough).

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

In general, you don't want to jump in or iad in at any decent Robo Ky. I know this from experience. Be very cautious and do not get hit by robo dash. Resist the urge to burst when he's just pressuring you. He sucks in Slash, just play it safe and you won't have a problem.

Sadly, I only get to play #R around here, since I'm an arcade player.

FD braking and kabari are your friend. Finish mid-screen air combos with j.S j.P j.S j.D (he's heavy enough).

Kabari is the 412+P counter, right?

[rtl42]

Kabari is the chain. The 421+P counter is Youshijin.

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

That makes much more sense.

[Shinjin]

I dont think we've talked about the Slayer-matchup in /, I need a few pointers on this one. I usually win with relative ease but I still feel that I have no idea what I should do. All I know is like:

6K is good

Superjump Airdash out of corner

and so forth.

But one of the rather annoying things is when he dashes through my attack after IB'ing a meaty-tatami or something of the similiar nature.

Anyways, I need pointers. Go!