metsuke Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Another question about this, what characters does it work on? I am not sure if spacing is my problem with some of them, or if it doesn't work on some of the cast. The frog 3c (1 hit) 236a combo works in the corner against everyone except Noel and Carl (use walk-up 5b instead of 3c).
Soniti Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 The frog 3c (1 hit) 236a combo works in the corner against everyone except Noel and Carl (use walk-up 5b instead of 3c). You use it against Nu too? Yes you can use 3c (1 hit) 236a combos on Tager.
ghaleon109 Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 So I've run into this a lot actually, and I'm kind of curious as to what some of you do.. After you've got the BnB in the corner: "5cdc, frog, 3c, 6a, super, frog, 3c" what do you follow up with? If I have the meter I usually try to follow up with another 6a then super, but I usually input the super to slow and they're able to tech after the 6a. So, what about the times when you dont have more meter or not want to use the extra heat? I was thinking after the 3c and during the frog hit summon a pumpkin, then frog, then wind the pumpkin in as oki and cover for the last couple of frames getting the frog out?
Soniti Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 So I've run into this a lot actually, and I'm kind of curious as to what some of you do.. After you've got the BnB in the corner: "5cdc, frog, 3c, 6a, super, frog, 3c" what do you follow up with? If I have the meter I usually try to follow up with another 6a then super, but I usually input the super to slow and they're able to tech after the 6a. So, what about the times when you dont have more meter or not want to use the extra heat? I was thinking after the 3c and during the frog hit summon a pumpkin, then frog, then wind the pumpkin in as oki and cover for the last couple of frames getting the frog out? You don't normally want to super again at that point. If you must you need to skip the 6a and make the super start hitting during the frog, or they will be able to tech. This is in the notes in my combo list at the bottom. After the frog starts hitting you normally want to get a pumpkin out then sweep them.
metsuke Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 You use it against Nu too? Yes. At midscreen she'll tech the 236a, but in the corner it works perfectly. After you've got the BnB in the corner: "5cdc, frog, 3c, 6a, super, frog, 3c" what do you follow up with? You mean 3c 236a, super, right? If you're going to go for dual super, I'd do: {super, 236a4d, super}. Generally not worth the meter unless you started the combo without much proration (6b). Standard followup to super is {214a, 3c (1 hit) 236a (frog hits) 214b 3c (3 hits) 214a}. I'm pretty sure you can also follow the 3c (3 hits) with {22a j.2c j.214a 3d}, but it's a waste of a pole in my opinion. In the corner, {214a, backdash, 214b, 236a} sacrifices damage for stronger positional advantage.
kro_ Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I've been trying out a lot of backdash, pumpkin, frog, 236a over their falling body in the corner online. People seriously cannot stop themselves from getting hit since they don't want to neutral tech. Mixup opportunities are great and the potential damage is really good. But I still don't think it's worthwhile unless you have super meter and you started the combo setup with moves that have poor proration. A frog juggle ending with 3c is significantly more damage and you still get good positional advantage. That being said, the setup is great for a guard break. 2-3 poles super blocked will drain barrier/guard meter very quickly, which is almost like forcing a burst. And the super gives you time to re-summon and create another setup while they block.
metsuke Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 That's what I've been saying in the video thread; combo to frog gets you more damage and the oki setup is almost as good. The main caveat for me is that actually landing the 3c after frog is tricky on some characters; until my consistency gets better on them I stick to the backdash setup, because having to end with j.2c j.214a/b is much weaker oki. Some other stuff: I've been trying to do {6a 5b JC sj.b j.2c j.c etc.} and it's surprisingly difficult to land, especially on some characters (e.g., Litchi). Anyone able to hit this consistently? On a related note, it seems like the original aircombo BnB {sj j.b-a-b-c dj j.b-c j.236a} isn't really useful anymore, since you could do {sj j.b-c dj j.2c-c land sj j.b-c dj j.2c-c etc.} instead for more damage (also opportunity to hitconfirm to super at j.2c). Finally, {5b JC 3d j.b} doesn't seem to connect against shorter characters. For instance, I hit it >95% of the time against Litchi, but Bang blocks the j.b. Can anyone confirm/refute?
Chaxo Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 I have a question about this combo 5A>5B>5C>5D>5C>214A>66>23C From what I've seen on youtube vids , when they summon George 13 it starts doing the electric thing immediately like in this vid ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSBt7FrkZ1I ) around 1:17 But when I try to do it , George always needs to jump forward meaning that the opponent is a bit 2 far after I did the 5C>5D>5C
Outtawack311 Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 The frog 3c (1 hit) 236a combo works in the corner against everyone except Noel and Carl (use walk-up 5b instead of 3c). Really? I can hit it against most, but I try against Arakune and the 3c never seems to hit.
cerebralsoldier Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 holy crap these combos and oki setups are tricky. Good Rachael players have my utmost respect.
kro_ Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Some other stuff: I've been trying to do {6a 5b JC sj.b j.2c j.c etc.} and it's surprisingly difficult to land, especially on some characters (e.g., Litchi). Anyone able to hit this consistently? On a related note, it seems like the original aircombo BnB {sj j.b-a-b-c dj j.b-c j.236a} isn't really useful anymore, since you could do {sj j.b-c dj j.2c-c land sj j.b-c dj j.2c-c etc.} instead for more damage (also opportunity to hitconfirm to super at j.2c). I thought that combo only works consistently against Arakune. I have seen it used against a few other characters like Ragna in super setups, but that usually requires you to hit the opponent with 2c while he is above at you at a very odd angle. So I don't think it should be a BnB, but rather some character-specific setup.
ant12292 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Some other stuff: I've been trying to do {6a 5b JC sj.b j.2c j.c etc.} and it's surprisingly difficult to land, especially on some characters (e.g., Litchi). Anyone able to hit this consistently? I practiced the hell out of this combo and I can get it to work pretty consistently against most of the cast. I actually find Litchi to be one of the easier characters thanks to her larger hitbox Carl, Jin, and Noel are some of the more difficult characters imo. Only thing is I do it slightly different (the way in Soniti's guide) but it seems to be the same thing you are going for {6A, 5B, JC, j.B, j.C, dj, j.2DC, j.C, land etc.}. Getting the j.2C to hit is the same thing as usual, wind at the same time you input the J.2C, do the second j.C as late as possible, and then either super jump and do an air combo or quickly dash in and do a 6A to super. Also, it is easier in the corner than it is midscreen if you are still having trouble and use 3D instead of 2D on Noel always and Rachael in the corner.
metsuke Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Really? I can hit it against most, but I try against Arakune and the 3c never seems to hit. How exactly are you doing it? I am absolutely certain it works on Arakune. I thought that combo only works consistently against Arakune. I have seen it used against a few other characters like Ragna in super setups, but that usually requires you to hit the opponent with 2c while he is above at you at a very odd angle. So I don't think it should be a BnB, but rather some character-specific setup. Which combo are you talking about? The j.b j.2c seems to be pretty tricky, but it definitely works against more people than just Arakune. I don't know about "consistency", because frankly my execution on the j.2c combos isn't spectacular to begin with. However, if you can hit it even some of the time, then it's theoretically possible all of the time - it's just going to take a lot of practice. I do it slightly different (the way in Soniti's guide) but it seems to be the same thing you are going for {6A, 5B, JC, j.B, j.C, dj, j.2DC, j.C, land etc.}. That's very different from what I'm trying to do. The combo again is: 6a 5b JC sj j.b (dj) j.2c j.c You go straight from j.b to j.2c, with no wind. It's superior to the {j.b j.c dj j.2dc j.c} version because this combo doesn't use any wind and prorates less (one j.c instead of two). However, it's also much harder to do. Getting this down as part of the normal repertoire would be awesome, as it allows stronger air setups to super for no wind, as well as stronger air combos in general. I know for a fact that this works on at least Arakune, Bang, and Litchi, because I've landed it against all of them (albeit with low success rates). I haven't gotten around to trying the rest of the cast yet.
ghaleon109 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Thanks everyone, I just found the combo in your notes as well Soniti. Just one thing on the follow-up after the frog goes off... If I've held 3c as their coming down from the super that'd put them too high to sweep after the frog catches them right? and I usually don't go 3c (1-hit) 236a. My execution blows and I usually just get 3c, 22a. So I just do 3c (3-hits) dash in, 6a into super, then follow up with the extra frog and 3c. Only time that really differs is with the weird 3c characters... I just do 2b, 5b instead of the 3c for them. Thanks though! I'll have to try some of those setups.
ant12292 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 That's very different from what I'm trying to do. The combo again is: 6a 5b JC sj j.b (dj) j.2c j.c You go straight from j.b to j.2c, with no wind. It's superior to the {j.b j.c dj j.2dc j.c} version because this combo doesn't use any wind and prorates less (one j.c instead of two). However, it's also much harder to do. Getting this down as part of the normal repertoire would be awesome, as it allows stronger air setups to super for no wind, as well as stronger air combos in general. Sorry, I did not know you could do that. I'll have to mess with it. and I usually don't go 3c (1-hit) 236a. My execution blows and I usually just get 3c, 22a. So I just do 3c (3-hits) dash in, 6a into super, then follow up with the extra frog and 3c. Only time that really differs is with the weird 3c characters... I just do 2b, 5b instead of the 3c for them. I had problems where I was getting sword iris a couple a days ago and then I started doing the motion as 21236A and I get it close to 100% of the time now. So you might want to try it that way. Hopefully it will help.
kro_ Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 Which combo are you talking about? The j.b j.2c seems to be pretty tricky, but it definitely works against more people than just Arakune. I don't know about "consistency", because frankly my execution on the j.2c combos isn't spectacular to begin with. However, if you can hit it even some of the time, then it's theoretically possible all of the time - it's just going to take a lot of practice. Yeah, I was referring to the j.b (dj) j.2c combos. I play a little more conservatively in tournaments than I do in casuals. So any combos that I can't do with a good success rate or have too many variables in setup are ones that I tend to avoid. Speaking of tournaments, A-gnat and Mike Z prompted me to actually go into training and practice some Tager-specific combos. If you've ever played marvel, the following combo is very similar to various standing infinites on Sentinel: Windless (Tager only) ~2200 dmg j.a j.b * j.2c (delay) j.c dash 5b jc j.a j.b * j.2c (delay) j.c dash 5b 3c (1-hit) 214a oki *This is where you can mix things up. If you put a short delay here, you may or may not cross Tager up ambiguously, reset, and continue the combo with another 2 reps of the loop. If Tager manages to backdash, you might whiff. But if you think he's going to try to backdash, just wait a little longer and catch him during the recovery with j.2c j.c. The above combo will be cut short and turn into this: Windless (Tager only) ~2900 dmg j.2c j.c dash 5b jc j.a j.b * j.2c (delay) j.c dash 5b jc j.a j.b * j.2c (delay) j.c dash 5b 3c (1-hit) 214a oki You can go for more resets here as well. If Tager manages to block and is using barrier, you'll get pushed back further. Solution: Add more j.a's and j.b's, omit the j.2c, and make sure you hit with j.c right before landing and whittle away his barrier guage. I think someone posted a video of this in the Tager matchup thread. It drives Tager players nuts.
kro_ Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 This was the windless combo I was talking about earlier Soniti. Windless, 100% meter, works on everyone midscreen 3c 236a rc dash 6a 632146c 214a 3c 236a frog hits (214b) 3c 22a 3c 214a oki = 5060 dmg Not much room to hit confirm with 1-hit 3c, but plenty of time to hit confirm on characters that 3-hit 3c works against.
Soniti Posted August 4, 2009 Author Posted August 4, 2009 This was the windless combo I was talking about earlier Soniti. Windless, 100% meter, works on everyone midscreen 3c 236a rc dash 6a 632146c 214a 3c 236a frog hits (214b) 3c 22a 3c 214a oki = 5060 dmg Not much room to hit confirm with 1-hit 3c, but plenty of time to hit confirm on characters that 3-hit 3c works against. From 3c that's the best we are gonna do, thanks. From 5b, the other combo I made does more dmg and builds more meter. edit: actually now that i think about it, probably not. The lower damage is due to 3c's starting proration, so a very close range 5b 3c (1/3 hits) 236a RC dash 6a super would probably work well.
kro_ Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 The 5b 3c will work. I just usually think about it as hitting them with a low after a blocked j.3dc 5b. It'll probably do a bit more damage.
Outtawack311 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 How exactly are you doing it? I am absolutely certain it works on Arakune. All I am doing is 5cdc > 3c > 236a in the corner and the 3c never hits for me. The only thing I can think of is I am not all the way in the corner when I try it, but it never works as a corner trap vs arakune for me.
Outtawack311 Posted August 4, 2009 Posted August 4, 2009 How exactly are you doing it? I am absolutely certain it works on Arakune. All I am doing is 5cdc > 3c > 236a in the corner and the 3c never hits for me. The only thing I can think of is I am not all the way in the corner when I try it, but it never works as a corner trap vs arakune for me.
metsuke Posted August 5, 2009 Posted August 5, 2009 All I am doing is 5cdc > 3c > 236a in the corner and the 3c never hits for me. The only thing I can think of is I am not all the way in the corner when I try it, but it never works as a corner trap vs arakune for me. 5ccd.
flyerbase Posted August 6, 2009 Posted August 6, 2009 BNB: Windless: 5b 6a 5b sj j.b j.a j.b j.c dj {j.2c [j.214b wind oki]}OR{j.b j.c j.236a} The super jump in this combo is killing me. I can't seem to consistently get it out, and I don't know the best way to input it. It just doesn't feel right. I guess it has to be done diagonally since most of the combo won't connect mid-screen if I jump straight up. I can do the other bnb's, and I really want to get this combo down since it seems so basic and a good all-around windless combo, but I don't know how to deal with the sj. If anyone could give a few pointers, thanks!
Maker Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 you just have to be concious of the fact the superjump is what makes the combo. I played a little hakumen practice to get good at tossing super jumps in with combos and the like but i cant promise that would help.
cyxx Posted August 7, 2009 Posted August 7, 2009 Is there a windless combo after you connect with 3cd? I sometimes follow up with 3cd after a blocked 5cdc and I find that I can't do the combo that comes from non winded 3c. From 3c: Normal 3c characters (Arakune, Bang, Carl, Hakumen, Jin, Litchi Nu, Rachel, Ragna, Taokaka): BNB: Windless: 3c (3 hits) 5a 5b sj j.b j.a j.b j.c dj {j.2c [j.214b wind oki]}OR{j.b j.c j.236a} 1741 damage/1899 damage I use that one for a non winded 3c, but I think the wind portion of 3cd seems to push them down and make them tech faster and I can't combo from that unless I 9d. Are there any windless options? or is doing a 3cd just a bad idea after a blocked 5cdc?
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