Suggested Tweaks and Oversights

[Ryyudo]

 

Imagine faust getting crouching punched out of his thrust move from full screen away, and you'll know Sol's pain for taking hits while executing forward hardslash while the opponent is hitting nothing but air.

I got 6P'd out of my thrust four times today.  And Pilebunkered once.

 

I have a decent, not exact, idea fam.

[Poultrygeist]

I propose that they make Slayer's DOT track the opponent, be completely unblockable and safe on whiff, and always do counterhit properties no matter what the situation.  Also for it to wall stick and have instant startup.

And I don't even play Slayer.

[MrBisonopolis]

 

He is, I agree, but those built in drawbacks need to go.  

 Every character in the whole entire world of fighters has drawbacks... Like, I dont know what youre trying to do here lol

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Except you are. You just don't realize it because you refuse to acknowledge the actual strengths of the character in the context of the game. The changes you suggest aren't necessarily unreasonable out of context, but considering the actual state of the game, they're unnecessary and would lead to dumbness.

Except you've not made an attempt to explain exactly how certain changes would lead to dumbness.  I mean, I'd like to set my mind at ease about some of this stuff too, to a point where I could stop wondering if these tweaks would actually be worthwhile. 

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

 Every character in the whole entire world of fighters has drawbacks... Like, I dont know what youre trying to do here lol

See the prefix "built in".  Rather than a move having a drawback through design, like riot stamp being forward punch bait, I'm talking about added, unnecessary stuff, like there being a gap between Sol's divekick and the flames that come out when he lands.

[MrBisonopolis]

See the prefix "built in".  Rather than a move having a drawback through design, like riot stamp being forward punch bait, I'm talking about added, unnecessary stuff, like there being a gap between Sol's divekick and the flames that come out when he lands.

.... I cant.

[Poultrygeist]

I don't think Dustloop is cut out for you to be honest, I think this website might be more of your scene.

[DaiAndOh]

You are making huge unreasonable differences to Sol. Why don't you give him a 12 inch dick while you're at it?

Anyway:

You heard WRONG about Revelator. What list are you taking about? Ramlethal was nerfed in Sign 1.0->1.1 though.

Counterhit 2D can get you great reward as well. Check it: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD/Sol_Badguy/Combos

j.S can hit deeply as an air to ground.

The Counterhit 2HS combos...I coulda sworn he has new ones in 1.1 with Double Bringer into Fafnir but those are still doing 50% meterless.

Fafnir...you can already combo me almost halfway the distance to the corner. You good.

Divekick: The startup is part of it. You're stalling time to bait their anti-airs. It adds elements of unpredictability.

Your screw up with DP is that I blocked it instead of whiffing. Find me a game that lets you cancel a DP on whiff.

I 6P Faust out of his f.S nearly a full screen away with Venom already. Hold that.

Edited September 8, 2015 by DaiAndOh

[MrBisonopolis]

Look this was a nice attempt. Its a good thing for people to discuss changes theyd like to see to their characters. But I dont think you really have a strong grasp of your own character considering the changes your asking for... 

[Pomparomp]

"A balance change that I think EVERY character needs:  PRCs added to all dragon punches.  It's half a meter man, seriously, let me cancel that."

please do not troll me i am fragile

[Poultrygeist]

You are making huge unreasonable differences to Sol. Why don't you give him a 12 inch dick while you're at it?
 

"We want the Justice audience."

[Labrys31]

Im glad ASW doesn't come here for character balance suggestions. 

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

You are making huge unreasonable differences to Sol. Why don't you give him a 12 inch dick while you're at it?

Well why don't you, and everyone else, explain to me, how these changes would unbalance him, addressing the proposals rather than giving me general info on Sol?  I'll wait.

 

Counterhit 2D can get you great reward as well. Check it: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD/Sol_Badguy/Combos
 

I'll check it out tomorow morning.

 

The Counterhit 2HS combos...I coulda sworn he has new ones in 1.1 with Double Bringer into Fafnir but those are still doing 50% meterless.

That's if he gets counterhit cr.HS at a certain height.  What I'm proposing a hitbox reaching above his head.  The opponent would be able to tech before they're in range for anything else more damaging than the standard bnb.

 

Fafnir...you can already combo me almost halfway the distance to the corner. You good.

I'm pretty sure that 4 frames is a fraction of a second.  Asking for a fraction of a second more to make sure my BB hits after fafnir is that bad?  Seriously?

 

Divekick: The startup is part of it. You're stalling time to bait their anti-airs. It adds elements of unpredictability.

Then sit there and block it then.  I've been punished before because people blocked the flames.

 

Your screw up with DP is that I blocked it instead of whiffing. Find me a game that lets you cancel a DP on whiff.

Soon as you can find me another game not made by arc that allows you to cancel your standing animation. 

 

I 6P Faust out of his f.S nearly a full screen away with Venom already. Hold that.

 Except Venom's pool que is actually making contact with something.  You're most likely not hitting air and reaping counterhits. 

[MrBisonopolis]

Actually I definitely read a few people telling you why all your changes are bad. I think maybe go back and re read?

[Baf0]

 

explain to me, how these changes would unbalance him, addressing the proposals rather than giving me general info on Sol?  I'll wait.

 

He already did. Maybe you should accept what everyone's telling you.

 

[SlothFacts]

50 meter is to much to cancel a whiffed DP, imo. i didn't even put the opponent into blockstun or hitstun, wth. let me yrc it during the recovery. or at least let me yrc the recovery when i land so that the opponent has to hit me in the air. it's dum that i can land and still not be able to block. also i think they should let Soul yrc his whiffed command grab again, it's way to dangerous to go for one now even as a gimmick.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

 

Because this list addresses all of the problems that Sol has regarding his bad matchups, correct?

I've watched plenty of matches of high ranking players.  They're not doing anything different than what I am.  If Sol was so damned good as you make him out to be, a lot of this stuff you constantly mention to me would happen more often.  But I never see it.  Like.... Ever.  Maybe in previous games, but definitely not this one.

 

Matches of these death combos on people who are paying attention please.  May could dizzy you in 3 hits (can she still now? don't know) and Eddie has or has had a Touch of Death combo in Xrd at some point.  Again, where is this happening so often that it's problematic?  Address the actual things I've stated, not previous problems before.  I don't remember making the slightest mention of adding block stun to fafnir.

 

He is, I agree, but those built in drawbacks need to go.  

Don't fall into the trap of "I don't see it in the extremely small percentage of total matches in Japan that happen to get released to Youtube, so it must never happen!" You cannot glean the true level of play from a handful of matches. Look at a player like FAB, who has literally played thousands of matches. You don't get to see all, or even most of them. And that's just one guy.

But fine, I'll bite at these changes that you're proposing.

Riot Stamp: This is retarded. This move is really good now, actually far BETTER than previous games. Huge damage on hit in some cases, and completely unpunishable on block. The reward off of it hitting is so high that I think it's fair that the opponent get a decent punish if it trades. Especially if it trades, since that means they were at least able to react in time to you doing it. Making it fly lower is also dumb, and would probably cause it to beat fewer moves.

Gun Flame: You already get a combo off of this almost every time it hits. With YRC it's insanely powerful, no changes needed.

2HS: Just, no. Nobody should have to risk the entire match off of one jump in. 5K is enough. If you're getting beat, learn the spacing. It's not hard.

Bandit Revolver: Making the move hit at the tail end would make the move entirely too good. They'd have to increase the landing recovery to compensate so that you don't get unlimited pressure, which would consequently make the move even worse when blocked standing. Longer YRC window would be cool, but is unnecessary.

j.P: Eh, whatever. j.K is the god now, that's probably why they took the gatling away (also to avoid giving oh-so-easy confirms off of air to air hits). Not a big deal.

5HS: Good enough as it is. He doesn't actually need yet another strong CH tool. As far as making the hitbox closer to his body, it seems unnecessary, and would look wonky. Seriously, just learn the timing and spacing on his combos, they aren't hard.

TR (both normal and DI): These changes are also unnecessary. The DI TR change would just make it absolutely free when blocked to push the other person out, which would be stupid. As far as throw invul, why are you doing TR when VV RC leads to more damage and a mixup on block? There's your throw invul move, use it. =/

Fafnir: See above. The move is good enough. Learn spacing and timing for your combos. The increased buffer makes these a lot easier than they were in 1.0. Yes, the hitbox means that sometimes it won't hit as high when the opponent is completely in the corner. Tough shit, learn the spacing. No need to make the combos even more braindead than they already are. An additional 5 frames of untech is not needed, his combos are not hard. It would also probably make his normal Fafnir combos even better for no apparent reason.

j.D: Again, unnecessary. Most of the characters who don't get hit by j.D crouching have lower stamina and will take a ton of damage even if you do airdash j.S-HS. Get over it. And why additional 4 frames of untech? As if his combos weren't dumb enough already, that would probably let you do something like j.D-j.D, Fafnir, into relaunch j.D-j.D and Fafnir AGAIN. Hello stun, apparently SBZ thinks Sol doesn't have enough of you, so he wants you to give him even more!

5D: Really? It's 2015, are we still relying on 5D for mixup? These are not that great for a reason. I don't see any reason this should be 0 on block. Increased range MAYBE, even though they already increased the range from previous games and gave it a MUCH better animation.

Kudakero/Divekick: This move is +2 on block! They did decrease the pushback on the first hit on block in 1.1, which is why you are more likely to see the flame whiff. They did this for a reason; having a move that had great priority/hitbox and was plus on block while altering your timing and trajectory from the air is REALLY FREAKIN' GOOD. That's why they changed it (extended vulnerable box and less pushout on first hit on block). Again, learn how to space the move. The advantages of it are still really good. You can YRC it at different times to change the trajectory and timing of your fall, which can give you a free opening. If you have meter, RC on hit at midscreen for great damage. You can combo off of it in the corner meterless. This is a great move.

6HS: People die when they get CH by this. It may get traded by weird moves sometimes, but oh well, if they're that desperate, cancel to something else and punish the bejesus out of them for trying. Someone hitting you during 6HS means that person is MASHING in anticipation, and you can make them pay dearly for that. Considering how rewarding 6HS is now, I don't see any reason to make it even harder for people to deal with.

CH windows: No idea what you mean by this. In any case, no reason to give Sol even more reason to just do moves by reducing the amount he gets punished when someone reads him.

DP PRC: Nope. Just, nope. If you whiff a DP, you should get punished. Especially with PRC giving SLOWDOWN and you potentially getting to punish your opponent for reading the situation correctly. This is stupid. You should not get rewarded for reading your opponent incorrectly.

Sooooooo, yeah. Sol is good. He doesn't need these buffs, they would just end up making him even more braindead. It's hard enough being a Sol player and getting no respect from the average player, who has no idea of how difficult it can be to play Sol at a high level.

[Sol Badguy Z AC]

Or maybe I want stuff that specifically addresses my statements, and how they would mess him up, not general stuff about the moves in question. 

 

Excuse me, I'm not trying to use my intuition here and piece together what you're implying - though I'm quite sure I understand the majority of what's being said, and if I'm continuing, then it's because what's being stated really doesn't address the topic.

 

EDIT:  K beast replied, gonna read

 

EDIT 2:  I'll probably respond in the morning.  Tired.  Beast replied appropriately.  This at least addresses my concerns, I'll be back to clear up confusion (and there still are some).

Edited September 8, 2015 by Sol Badguy Z AC

[TheRealBobMan]

Here let me try.

Sol's 5D is already one of the fastest in the game, but it has kinda shitty range.  I say we give it Chipp's 5D range and make it +2 on block to help buff Sol's shitty mixup, but then make it so you can crouch under it so that it's fair.  We could also probably make Sol's 2S hit low to give people a reason to use it.

Millia's Chroming Rose is OP as shit, so maybe she shouldn't be able to get meter while it's active, and maybe she should have to pay health to use it too.  But then her H Tandem Top takes too long to start up (60 frames are you kiddin gme?) and people always just walk forward and hit you when you do it, so they should make it start on like frame 25.

Elphelt's rifle is really lame because you have to wait for it to charge to become unblockable, so instead it should just do 1 damage and always be unblockable!  Since it does shit damage it'll be fair.  Otherwise there's nothing wrong with this character.

Zato is such bullshit since there's 2 of him.  He shouldn't be allowed to Burst, and he should lose health when you hit his shadow.  Also he shouldn't have drills since they can hit you anywhere on the screen.

Axl overall is kind of bad but he has some really OP moves.  I think they should let him get meterless combos out of his counters so that you'll have a reason to use them, but they should make that Spindle Spinner move a lot slower since it's unblockable and does so much damage.  That full-screen stance is super broken so it should cost him meter every time he swings the chain at you since it's cheap.

Bedman is terrible.  I don't know what they were thinking when they designed him.  His clock super needs to start right after the flash so you can't just super through it on reaction, and his other super needs to start after like a second since they'll just hit you anyway.  They should also buff his damage a little bit.

Chipp is pretty good but needs a few more buffs to shine.  He shoul dalways throw the good ninja star-dagger things instead of the slow ones, and his forward kick (that jumping overhead) needs to be +3 to help his mixup/pressure.

Faust needs more items.  I think we should bring back mini-Potemkin, and the dumbbell from +R.  Also, if you kill Faust and the hit that killed him knocks him into his food, he should heal and get another chance.

I-No is so damn cheap with her overheads.  Her j.D needs to be about 5 frames slower and her supers need to do less damage.  2S shouldn't be a low anymore either, and her 6P beats everything so I think they should take away the invul-frames.

Ky is fair.  I wouldn't change anything, but it would be weird to not give him a buff...  I'd make Greed Sever a frame faster to make it harder to block since people alre alwyas blocking it when I play online.

Leo is pure bullshit with that stance counter.  It needs to have like 5 frames of startup and that overhead needs to be slower.  Also he shouldn't have crossups because he has a DP already.

May should get the crazy stun back on her 6P and the armor on the spinning super since there's no reason to use it now, but otherwise she's really good now.  Just not +R good.

I don't really know Potemkin other than he's really bad but most pf the people I play against are good, so Potemkin Buster should do less damage (like maybe 15 points), but they should let him special cancel his 6P, buff the range on Heat Knuckle, and maybe give him an air-to-air throw.  I mean, he's a grappler right?

Ramlethal shouldn't have her swords fall down when she blocks.  Instead they should go back to idle.  They should get knocked down when they're hit, or when she's hit.  Their hurtboxes should be reduced somewhat too since it's really easy to get rid of them.  She should also get a little bit more meter when using her special moves, with possibly the biggest increase to the command throw (which I'd also change to a 623 input so she can use it while running).  I'd also have Dauro always be the just-input version since it's kind of dumb to have this bullshit in a game that's supposed to be accessible, on a character that already has so many command normals and specials on the same button which adds a huge margin for error (ex: 5K, 4K, 2K, 6K, 3K, 236K, 214K, 2363214K).  Whatever benefit there is to the non-green version of Dauro, just give it to green-dauro and use that as the base version of the move.  I might try raising the attack level of Cassius so that it'll have more hitstun/blockstun to increase the reward, since it's pretty slow to start up and since it can be hard for Ram to get meter to YRC it anyway.

Sin is kinda interesting, but it's bullshit that he can cancel is DP to be safe.  He shouldn't be able to cancel that move.  But then his overhead is really slow and easy to block, so I'd make it like 6 frames faster since he doesn't have real mixup right now.  I mean come on he has to spend meter to cancel his stuff and actually use the mixup anyway.  He should also get to have 2 Bursts since he's part Gear.

Slayer has no range.  They should give him a sword or a gun or something.  Maybe he should control the weather like Rachel.

Venom is so cheap.  He's like the best character in the game.  I wish they could take his balls away, but they designed him that way and it' would be kind of dumb to just remove stuff like that, so maybe it should cost him meter to regular summon a ball.  But then he'd probably still be really weak since his balls are everything, so maybe they should give him Tactical Arch back so he'd have another ball super.  So like, he could do his supers or do stinger aim, but just putting a ball out would cost like 2% or something to keep him from spamming and being cheap.  Also, he shouldn't be allowed to do that cheap thing where the fast overhead gets a DP at the end when you try to rush in to hit him.

 

So in all seriousness, you're suggesting buffs to a character that doesn't really need them.  You've made statements like, "Riot Stamp:  This move has been made pretty useless in the transition from ACR to Xrd...", when Xrd's Riot Stomp is probably the best version of the move.  It was risky as balls before, only gave you a reward on Counter Hit, and it was easy to beat clean on reaction or to punish on block, with the only redeeming feature being that it was a fast overhead when you were cornered.  Now you get something on Counter Hit and regular hit, and it gives you an opportunity to keep initiative on block, which seems fair since it's still possible to beat clean on reaction (assuming they don't YRC at any time, which is also a nice buff to the move compared to the old FRC window).  Suggesting that this move is worse than before shows a lack of understanding.

"Forward HS:  I've seen many Sol players get hit out of this move from such absurd distances where his body hasn't even reached that space yet.  This is ridiculous.  The hurtbox should be reduced to fill his actual body, for goodness' sakes."

Sol's 6H gives a huge reward on CH, and as such it's easy to beat on startup.  You can gatling it out of 6P and 2S, in both cases leaving something like a 5-frame gap (I think 8 with IB).  Not everyone has a move that can reach him in that amount of time if he's spacing from max 6P or 2S range, so the idea is to occasionally trap someone that tries to get out.  2S is + on block, so Sol usually uses it to reset his pressure.  It often follows 6P, and if he's at max 6P range it's likely to whiff (but that's ok because it recovers so fast - it might be a bait to get you to try to hit him).  So he'll corner you and create situations to bait the other player into hitting a button or trying to get out of the corner.  They'll either eat the 6H when trying to run forward or jump and get knocked down, or try to push a button in a 5-frame gap and get wrecked.  If you're using it at neutral without some kind of advantage you better know the risks involved.  The rewards are totally worth the risk if you create the right situation to use the move.

[Gramas]

Mhmh maybe only reasonable tweak Sol needs is the 5HS change the op suggested 

[Magaki]

The reason why people behave this way towards you is merely because you're speaking of a concept that you don't fully understand and that they try to explain to you: Balance.

When you think that let's say, a person is interesting, you're comparing that person to other people in your environment and mention that because he's interesting he's standing out. If that person is the only one you know however, saying that this person is interesting is meaningless.
In other words, a comparison is only meaningful based on its context.

When you consider that a character in a game is strong, you say that because he's strong compared to the rest of the cast.
The goal of balance is to bring every character to a point where they all are as strong as any other (or at least, try to). To do that, you give both nerfs and buffs.

If a character was very strong, you will give him nerfs and tone down moves that just allowed them to get way too much advantages against other characters (This doesn't only concern damage but also okizeme, mixups, etc). But at the same time, you want to give him some new tools that are not as strong as the previous ones but will allow him to make up for the weaknesses those nerfs brought or, at least, reinforce one of the character's strengths in order to make him more specialized.
For weak characters, you will do the opposite.

Balance is only there for one thing: To improve the game and give it more depth and dynamics.
Nothing more, nothing less.

Obviously, this is a process that can be either hit or miss where you can also do too much (Ram 1.1 being a good example) or just not enough (Elphelt 1.1 being barely changed for instance. She could kill you in 2-3 mistakes in 1.0 and still does in 1.1)

What's the issue then with your wishlist ?
The main problem is its purpose.
You said yourself:

"[ ... ] I want to not only bring up what I think are oversights in the designs of certain character's attacks[ ... ]"

Are they truly oversights or are they actually properties that were added by the developpers on purpose ?

Let's take other projectiles in Xrd as example other than Gunflame to illustrate that.

Is Charged Stun Edge a move meant purely for zoning ? It's a projectile yeah. And technically, it hits thrice so it's great if you can make it come out without being punished. But if it really was meant for zoning, how come does it disappear on hit while Stun Edge S doesn't making the latter ideal for YRC ?

Clear example of moves being designed to have clear uses. CSE is meant for oki. SE is meant for neutral. You can obviously use them in other situations if you want to. Exactly like how you can decide to use a flat screwdriver on a crosshead screw. You can just do whatever you want with them but then you're completely missing the point of a key element in high level plays: Optimization.

Let's pick another example this time while still sticking with projectiles. Before, we had examples of a moveset where 2 moves had very specificuses. But there are also cases where a move is not allowed to be used in specific situations and the greatest example is Zato's drills. When you YRC them, the active frames are cancelled. Why ? Because you're not allowed to use them for unblockable situations. That's also why Eddie doesn't have an overhead move anymore. They didn't want to go in that direction with him despite the fact that he always had one.

In fact, there is one iteration of Zato that clearly explains all those design reasons: Eddie in GGXX
22S FRC>6K meant that Zato did not require particular okizeme to go for an unblockable. The fact that -D- consumed a ridiculously low amount of shadow gauge made unblockables in simple blockstrings not only possible but still allowed to go for damaging combos afterwards leading into MORE unblockables.

Those were particularities that only existed in XX and were immediately taken care of in #R. 22S wasn't FRC cancelable anymore, -D- consumed a ton of gauge in #R and had its properties on hit nerfed while 2K>2D as a gatling was removed to make hitconfirms into knockdown harder.

Why did they do that ? To improve the game's balance. Those choices were only made for the game's sake and that's how balance decision should be made.

The reason why your list can't be taken seriously is something that Titanium already pointed out. It's not meant to improve the game but pure wishful thinking. Whether you consider a move to be godlike or shit is entirely up to you but if you do have an opinion about it and want to discuss it, you have to elaborate and provide reasons to explain why this move is bad while another one is good.

Saying that 5K is not great because it can be beaten in very specific situations is as silly as saying that iron is not tough because water and oxygen make it rust. In fact, you don't seem to realize that your argument is actually a counterargument. If you need specific situations to beat a move in general, that means that this move is so good that you need to force the opponent to get around it.

I'm certain this thread will be locked soon anyway but if there is one thing you should keep in mind, it's that if you want to talk about balance and possible changes, you need to understand that this kind of discussion should only concern the game itself. Not HOW you want it to be as this only concern yourself and no one except you care about that.

Sol is fine as he is. Rather than talking of nerfing him or buffing him, why not take care of the main reason why some matchups are just bad in Xrd: Buff the low tiers and give them tools to compete with the top tiers. Then and finally then you can talk about toning down the top tiers when in the end you notice that some moves are still too damn good.
 

Find me a game that lets you cancel a DP on whiff.
 

Kinda ironic to ask for this kind of example in the GG section.

Here's one: GGXXAC+R who got 3 DPs with FRC: Chipp's 623S, Robo-ky's 623H and Zappa's 623H with sword mode.

Though, in +R's case, there are very specific reasons why those DPs are FRCable.

Chipp's got 5f startup but it's only attack level 3 with an FRC on the 29th frame. This means that it's possible to block it, react to the DP being blocked and air throw him.
Might seem like a waste of ressource in that case but it isn't because it's meant to be used with 50 tension. If the opponent blocks it, you're massively + and can pressure him. If the opponent makes it whiff with a backdash for instance, FRCing on whiff and escaping because the opponent is too far to air throw becomes possible. (It's kinda possible to actually punish him with air normals by hitting him between the invul and FRC window but that's to be honest a situation that happen mostly in theoryland.)

In Robo's case, the DP got 3f startup (level 2 and 3. At level 1, it's only throw invul so who cares). The character overheat if he blocks or backdash too much. He can get 10 tension for every IB he manages to pull off. The FRC is here to help him in the same situations as Chipp. Except that +R Robo sucks and he really needs it while Chipp is top and burning tension for a RC for Robo is quite the commitment as it drastically reduces his options afterwards both in pressure and neutral.

Finally for Zappa, you can't react while waking up to the summon you are given so his only wakeup invul moves that are guaranteed are backdash and super (which are both great) making Sword 623H a move you will mostly use in defense during blockstrings. Before, he could get nice rewards on 623H FRC (as far as I know, he always had an FRC on that move) but in +R, air sword combos are very unstable. However, the FRC window is on 13~16f for a level 4 attack meaning that it's possible to keep pressuring afterwards so it's a very strong defensive option.
But again, so is Zappa's defense in general.

There are also other examples of meterless reversals that require low commitment like Zappa's dog in defense or Baiken's Sakura FRC but they aren't DPs.

Whether giving the option to whiff cancel DPs for the 3 mentionned characters is a good thing or not compared to just giving them something else defense-wise is competely debatable however.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Magaki

[SlothFacts]

You forgot Starship. Never forget Starship. 

(Also Ky can do Lightning Javelin off of a whiffed Vapor Thrust, and FRC that, which is close to the same thing.)

[Magaki]

... I completely forgot about Bridget. Thanks for reminding me.

But I'm not so sure about Ky though. Isn't the FRC happening just way too late to really be interesting ? I got a pocket Ky in +R because he's mad fun in that version but that's it. Only thought it was pure combo filler.

[SlothFacts]

It does mean you're not gonna land and be in recovery, at least. When I was new, I played a Ky who abused the hell out of it since I wasn't ready for that. It wasn't a thing I saw much at higher levels, though. Like you said, with how late it is, it doesn't end up as useful as something like Starship whiff FRC or Beta Blade whiff FRC.

[greatfernman]

legitimately curious, who are you hearing from about all these revelator changes

are you being told they were changed, and then just assuming that means in revelator.

or is the person actually telling you it's revelator

just wondering.