KrazySh0t Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Please re-read this line from my post: "BB is not a broken game, nor does it have characters that are broken by nature. There isn't a damn thing that should be patched. All the community should do is continue to improve, whilst eagerly awaiting a sequel." That is all. ATTENTION MASSES AND ARC SYSTEM WORKS: cease all patch talk and patch coding. This game is obviously balanced because this random guy on the internet said so. Things like 5 frame jumps vs 9 frame jabs are acceptable play or the fact that Tager or Hakumen really can't do well against the top tier are fine. This game should remain as is forever, in fact don't add any new characters either because that will of course nerf/buff the current characters and destroy this integral balance that we have achieved.
Allelujah Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 strange i don't remember while playing GG the majority of the community constantly demanding changes to the game... i feel like people used to just play until changes where presented to them. Does anyone think the game wont get revisions at some point? And knowing that it pretty much will defiantly get fixes or changes why cant you just enjoy the game till then?.
seventwenty1 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 strange i don't remember while playing GG the majority of the community constantly demanding changes to the game... i feel like people used to just play until changes where presented to them. Does anyone think the game wont get revisions at some point? And knowing that it pretty much will defiantly get fixes or changes why cant you just enjoy the game till then?. ok...like the 10th time i've read this sentiment...the answer is: BECAUSE IN GG AN ONLINE PATCH WAS NEVER A VIABLE OPTION
Klaige Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Please re-read this line from my post: "BB is not a broken game, nor does it have characters that are broken by nature. There isn't a damn thing that should be patched. All the community should do is continue to improve, whilst eagerly awaiting a sequel." That is all. This statement alone shows one of two options: A: You are a troll B: You are an idiot. The game IS BROKEN with a horde of bad design choices and mechanics that make no goddamn sense. The throw game, the jump game, and the penaltys are all in bad bad shape and need working. The top 3 are the very definition of broken by nature. Their designs are broken, they're ability to play the game by themselves with no consequences is broken. Arakune is arguably one of the most busted characters i have seen in a "competitive" fighter in a long time. The game gets these criticisms because they are fair, and they are deserved. When a game is lightyears behind it's predecessor in terms of balance, gameplay, and general system mechanics, then it's going to be criticized and calls are going to be made to make a better game. There is a massive difference between these discussions and the Smash community's self made issues. Guilty gear never required anyone to make up specific sets of rules or special ideas to get a competitive game. You take the arcade version, you play. Don't lump in other horseshit issues with such gross generalizations. Seriously, have you even played Blazblue? Just curious.
Allelujah Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 ok...like the 10th time i've read this sentiment...the answer is: BECAUSE IN GG AN ONLINE PATCH WAS NEVER A VIABLE OPTION just because something can be done does not mean it should be......
Smilax Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Everyone should take a lesson from the new players online in order to "fix all these tier/patch complaints" Every. Single. Person. Should. Play. Jin. YEA FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BITCH ONCE THAT HAPPENS, JUST PATCH THIS SHIT SO THAT YOU CAN ONLY PICK JIN. though.. we'll still probably hear about "THAT JIN HAS BETTER COLORS AND IS THERE FOR BETTER AS HE HAS LESS DELAY ON MOVE X Y AND/OR Z YOU NIGGAS AT AKSYS NEED TO PATCH THIS RIGHT NAO" bitchs
Klaige Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 just because something can be done does not mean it should be...... Fair enough, but without it blazblue will be dead and without players in a year because it's fundamentally a bad game. So what would you prefer, an attempt to make it a long lasting game, or keeping you head buried in the sand and waiting for everyone with a brain to stop playing because the game is sorely under the average for a competitive fighter.
Smilax Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Fair enough, but without it blazblue will be dead and without players in a year because it's fundamentally a bad game. So what would you prefer, an attempt to make it a long lasting game, or keeping you head buried in the sand and waiting for everyone with a brain to stop playing because the game is sorely under the average for a competitive fighter. Oh I didnt know mahvel has survived for 10+ years with the same 4 character teams for the past few years at the top? Maybe im wrong (I really could be, I was only in the marvel scene for a few months)
Klaige Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Oh I didnt know mahvel has survived for 10+ years with the same 4 character teams for the past few years at the top? Maybe im wrong (I really could be, I was only in the marvel scene for a few months) Marvel had depth and years and years and years of progression before getting to that state. New glitches, exploits, team options, and other things allowed players to travel deep down the rabbit hole. The reason it still gets played is because there is so much depth in the offensive game that it allows players to have fun even while dealing with the lack of balance. Blazblue doesn't have this. It's depth pool is shallow and simple, it's like riding a train down the tracks and there are no curves to be found. It's straight-forward and has a plethora of design problems that make it a much worse game than the one it is slowly trying to "replace". Easy ass top tier characters can be overcome in some games when there is enough depth and variance in the options of playstyle to create new ideas, this won't happen in Blazblue, what you see is what you get.
MisoSowee Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Oh I didnt know mahvel has survived for 10+ years with the same 4 character teams for the past few years at the top? Maybe im wrong (I really could be, I was only in the marvel scene for a few months) Yes it did survive, but imagine the depth if all the characters were relatively equal!! It'd be an AMAZING game, don't you agree? and plus, with BlazBlue currently only sporting 12 characters, the balance should be well, balanced, since there are less characters it would be easier, and more quality time can be spent to balance it. and plus i can't see them balancing it all the way to hell and back. it'd probably only be smaller things, not something ridiculous like a Nu sword bar.
solidshake Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 MvC2's system is way more predisposed to lasting with only 4 characters though. i doubt BB's system is good enough to support a following under the same circumstances (not that the balance is even close to that bad) I also doubt AC would have survived if everyone just fucked about playing testament, eddie and jam.
MumMum Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 This statement alone shows one of two options: A: You are a troll B: You are an idiot. The game IS BROKEN with a horde of bad design choices and mechanics that make no goddamn sense. The throw game, the jump game, and the penaltys are all in bad bad shape and need working. The top 3 are the very definition of broken by nature. Their designs are broken, they're ability to play the game by themselves with no consequences is broken. Arakune is arguably one of the most busted characters i have seen in a "competitive" fighter in a long time. The game gets these criticisms because they are fair, and they are deserved. When a game is lightyears behind it's predecessor in terms of balance, gameplay, and general system mechanics, then it's going to be criticized and calls are going to be made to make a better game. There is a massive difference between these discussions and the Smash community's self made issues. Guilty gear never required anyone to make up specific sets of rules or special ideas to get a competitive game. You take the arcade version, you play. Don't lump in other horseshit issues with such gross generalizations. Seriously, have you even played Blazblue? Just curious. There nothing wrong w/ the throws in BB. The NP need to go or rework though. I also don't know what you mean about "jumps" in the game. I don't think the game has "horde of bad design" but there are things they need to work on to improve the game overall. As for tiers; Tager & Hakuman have the most problems in the cast but, yes, most of the cast needs a little rework. Some more then others. In SBO stuff~ ※ During the Blazblue prelims, everyone was going crazy whenever an Arakune, Rachel or v-13 lost a round or a fight. Whenever a lower tier character like Carl or Bang started gaining the advantage, the place went nuts too, so far as to ignore the highlighted match on the big screen. Hopefully Arc Systems sees how painful it is to watch the top 3 dominate the game and makes some thoughtful changes. - Versus City
Klaige Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 There nothing wrong w/ the throws in BB. The NP need to go or rework though. I also don't know what you mean about "jumps" in the game. I don't think the game has "horde of bad design" but there are things they need to work on to improve the game overall. As for tiers; Tager & Hakuman have the most problems in the cast but, yes, most of the cast needs a little rework. Some more then others. In SBO stuff~ ※ During the Blazblue prelims, everyone was going crazy whenever an Arakune, Rachel or v-13 lost a round or a fight. Whenever a lower tier character like Carl or Bang started gaining the advantage, the place went nuts too, so far as to ignore the highlighted match on the big screen. Hopefully Arc Systems sees how painful it is to watch the top 3 dominate the game and makes some thoughtful changes. - Versus City The throw game is total garbage. They have 7 frames of start up, jumps are 3-4 frames, jabs are 5-6, this is simple fundamentals, it's a horrible design choice. On top of it they make throws techable even if your a mouth breather with horrid reaction time. And they do this to compensate for the lazy design choice of "well lets let everyone combo into throws, but add a huge tech window...oo but lets make them never ever prorate" Wanna shut down throws in this game, hold up back. Hell wanna shut down the average characters rush down? Hold down back, react to slow ass overheads, and jump away at your leisure. If your feeling particuarly lazy, just hold barrier and mash on IB, another brilliant mechanic by the way. The game is linear as hell and a lot of the system mechanics make no sense. IB is way too strong, jumping is way too strong, negative penalty and burst mechanics are batshit stupid. These aren't hard things to understand here. And the tiers, the top has WAY more things wrong with it than the bottom. I don't know how anyone could possibly fight a good Arakune, Rachel, or Nu and after the match was over even consider saying "well i had a fair shot to win that" with a straight face. Blazblue rewards stagnate boring zoning more than anything. It's not even good intelligent zoning where you have to be a great playing like ST Dhalsim for example, it's just a simple If A then B process that lets you destroy the opposition if they don't get lucky on taking some massive massive risks. Again, i don't even know why i have to repeat this, most of this crap is obvious to good players anyway.
KrazySh0t Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 There nothing wrong w/ the throws in BB. The NP need to go or rework though. I also don't know what you mean about "jumps" in the game. I don't think the game has "horde of bad design" but there are things they need to work on to improve the game overall. As for tiers; Tager & Hakuman have the most problems in the cast but, yes, most of the cast needs a little rework. Some more then others. I believe he is referring to the fact that jumps have the least amount of frames to pull off and you can basically hold 7/9 while being jabbed, and jump out of it. Same goes for throws which I believe have even longer startup.
Josh Ballard Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 To anyone asking why people keep talking about a patch, there have been rumors floating around for a little while now that they will release an update later this year. Frequent patches/upgrades have become the norm with arcade fighting games anymore, and they are instantly adopted upon release. Arcana Heart Full was released in the middle of SBO qualifiers, and it immediately replaced the original version in the tournament. An even more dramatic example is VF5R, which came out only a couple weeks before SBO and was used in place of vanilla VF5 anyway. Smash players probably aren't aware of this since their games are console-exclusive and lack the online structure of XBL or PSN, but it's been the state of affairs for a while now.
STenSatsu Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Didn't realize patching arcades was so normal. Interesting. Anyway, this isn't really the thread for balance discussion or tier list shit. Just make a thread in gameplay forums or something. Some stuff could be better and I'm sure it will be better next patch/revision/whatever if the GG series is anything to go by.
MumMum Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Didn't realize patching arcades was so normal. Interesting. Anyway, this isn't really the thread for balance discussion or tier list shit. Just make a thread in gameplay forums or something. Some stuff could be better and I'm sure it will be better next patch/revision/whatever if the GG series is anything to go by. Nerfs and Buffs: Troll Edition - meaningful system changes <-- Go here for my AWESOME[shitty] reply.
tolore Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Klaige: While I agree with you on many points, the top tier is not nearly as busted as you make them out to be, before SBO the only top tier character I would have put over GGAC eddy was v13, but her preformance in sbo was so poor i'm starting to rethink that. I do agree that throws need to be reworked, they are just a stupid way to tack on damage to someone who isn't paying attention right now. They do almost nothing to break turtleing, as even the green window is long enough to break on reaction after you factor in start up(this is added to the fact that like in all games you generally have to walk forward or do something else that makes th e throw predictable if it's being watched for), which is IMO what throws are supposed to be for. I'd make lal throws worse on hit, but make thme much harder to tech. Overall I'm pretty happy with how the tournament played out, I can't believe an arakune player won with his worst matchup being so prevelant, there were 9 rachels too which is also a bad match for arakune. edit: also bang and litchii's in top 8 was pretty awesome. It would have been nice if there was more hakumen and tagers around. non made it past round 2.
silentdob Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 And people wonder why Im against DLC... Ever since it started up on consoles, everyones been bitching for patches/updates instead of learning the game. Anyone character can beat any character if you just put in the work instead of screaming for a patch. Yes it will be harder for someone like a Tager to beat an Arakune, but Im sure if you just practice, you could find a way.
MisoSowee Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 And people wonder why Im against DLC... Ever since it started up on consoles, everyones been bitching for patches/updates instead of learning the game. Anyone character can beat any character if you just put in the work instead of screaming for a patch. Yes it will be harder for someone like a Tager to beat an Arakune, but Im sure if you just practice, you could find a way. Sorry but that argument is just so over-played. The fact is, that no one should have to put MORE effort to win a match. At least not as much as it takes for a tager and hakumen vs top 3. It's just not right.
Jakestation Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Klaige: While I agree with you on many points, the top tier is not nearly as busted as you make them out to be, before SBO the only top tier character I would have put over GGAC eddy was v13, but her preformance in sbo was so poor i'm starting to rethink that. I do agree that throws need to be reworked, they are just a stupid way to tack on damage to someone who isn't paying attention right now. They do almost nothing to break turtleing, as even the green window is long enough to break on reaction after you factor in start up(this is added to the fact that like in all games you generally have to walk forward or do something else that makes th e throw predictable if it's being watched for), which is IMO what throws are supposed to be for. I'd make lal throws worse on hit, but make thme much harder to tech. Overall I'm pretty happy with how the tournament played out, I can't believe an arakune player won with his worst matchup being so prevelant, there were 9 rachels too which is also a bad match for arakune. edit: also bang and litchii's in top 8 was pretty awesome. It would have been nice if there was more hakumen and tagers around. non made it past round 2. i agree here also in some parts, #R eddie is way above v13/rachel/arakune thou AC eddie aint that much but still above them. about slow overheads, so i wonder if you guys can block those rachel 5b j2c/5b 3c mixups etc just like that without any problems? if so, i guess you can block fausts fdc jk 100% aswell.
silentdob Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Sorry but that argument is just so over-played. The fact is, that no one should have to put MORE effort to win a match. At least not as much as it takes for a tager and hakumen vs top 3. It's just not right. That is true, but isnt that the nature of a fighter? I mean it seems like it would be a total rip off of time and money if any character could beat anyother character on any given day IMO. Besides, doesnt it feel much better to beat a top tier character with a lower tier that you put work into mastering, than beating someone whos on the same tier as your character?
kilgr20 Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 Well looks like all that V-13 complaining was in vein since Arakune and Carl are obviously better then Nu....
Hellmonkey Posted August 17, 2009 Posted August 17, 2009 i agree here also in some parts, #R eddie is way above v13/rachel/arakune thou AC eddie aint that much but still above them. no be ashamed of yourself this thread sucks apart from first post, closed
starmine92 Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 sad to see americans didnt even make it to the brakets. and its even worse that a carl made it to the finals (damn i hate carl!!!) and its pretty sad to see most of the winners were the top four. i was really hoping for dora, a ragna or a noel player to go far but its pretty hard for them i guess. but whats really interesting is how much the tier list has changed after the tourney. i havent seen recent ones but it is still pretty interesting to see how it has changed quite drastically
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