A.X.I.S. Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Try fighting him as Haku-Men. There is no way on God's, Allah's, Zeus', Odin's, Or Darwin's evolutionary green Earth that that match-up is anything less than 8-2 Arakune. i just j.D or 5D his dives gets me out of curse every time. and by theory yukikaze should help but it doesn't.
Skye Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 i just j.D or 5D his dives gets me out of curse every time. and by theory yukikaze should help but it doesn't. So, that's why I started having an easier time? Because I stopped diving so much? Huh... Yukikazeing his bugs are cute, you burn 4 magatama on something that give Arakune free time to super jump, double jump and cloud, or time his air super juuuust right.
Justice7541 Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I'll have you know that if you should prevent getting cursed, you have a sharp advantage, if you're fighting stupid Arakune's, first thing you should do (as well as the second and so forth) is Infernal Divider (D preferably), the smart ones.....Throw out a test 6A of wait and block so you can punish later. Arakune has like 2 getup options (one of them most of us don't even use, and the other requires 50 heat), lock his ass down. If you are cursed, persevere, everyone else does. >>Implying anyone has an advantage over Arakune except maybe Nu Sure is downplaying your character in here.
A.X.I.S. Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 >>Implying anyone has an advantage over Arakune except maybe Nu Sure is downplaying your character in here. love your sig, justice arcana. yeah well give him time he will be like ryo sooner or later.
JinSaotome Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 >>Implying anyone has an advantage over Arakune except maybe Nu Sure is downplaying your character in here. Actually, Nu has a pretty lofty advantage over Ara, and Rachel vs Ara is 6-4 Rachel. But yeah, saying "Just persevere, everyone else does" is NOT how curse works.
Skye Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 Hell no it's not how curse works, but what else can you do but persevere when cursed, grab a beer? And do anyone know of any extra get up options Arakune has?
Eshi Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 >>Implying anyone has an advantage over Arakune except maybe Nu Sure is downplaying your character in here.He wasn't at all implying that characters have advantage over Arakune, he was saying that every character has to be patient and not give up the instant they're cursed. Also this isn't 4chan.
AdamNW Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I seriously don't understand how Tager is so low when Mike Z exists.
Skye Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I seriously don't understand how Tager is so low when Mike Z exists. Because being awesome with a bad character doesn't make the character good.
AdamNW Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Because being awesome with a bad character doesn't make the character good. ChuDat made Ice Climbers (SSBM) go up like 3 tiers after a single tournament. I know that this isn't Smashboards, but if Tager is capable of winning so cleanly, it shouldn't appear to be the opposite. But my idea of what the tiers should look like are nothing like the current :X
mAc Chaos Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 During the days of SF2, the best players could change tier lists solely based on the characters they played with.
Skye Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I wish there was a Mike Z for Hakumen. ;_; I wish there was a Mike Z for Arakune, we'd so be our own tier. ChuDat made Ice Climbers (SSBM) go up like 3 tiers after a single tournament. I know that this isn't Smashboards, but if Tager is capable of winning so cleanly, it shouldn't appear to be the opposite. But my idea of what the tiers should look like are nothing like the current :X The Ice Climbers has potential that Chu tapped into, increasing their overall value, Mike Z uses what Tager has and has not really revealed anything new to him that makes him an overall better character. Circumstances my friend. I also agree that the tiers need a bit more re-evaluating, but if the top players say this, there isn't much we can do to argue them unless we become top players before Continuum Shift comes out so we can argue before everyone stops caring.
AdamNW Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I've never thought if it like that. If anyone is curious here's what I think the tiers should look like. S Tier: Arakune Nu A Tier: Rachel Litchi Carl B Tier: Taokaka Jin Ragna C Tier: Tager Noel D Tier: Bang Hakumen I don't have any real arguments for these, but that's just what I believe.
-Papercuts Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I think you forgot "What the christ happened" tier and put Tager in C instead.
AdamNW Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Nah, I put Tager in C. The only characters I could imagine have a valid advantage against him are Arakune, Carl, and Nu, considering their zoning power.
Skye Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I've never thought if it like that. If anyone is curious here's what I think the tiers should look like. S Tier: Arakune Nu A Tier: Rachel Litchi Carl B Tier: Taokaka Jin Ragna C Tier: Tager Noel D Tier: Bang Hakumen I don't have any real arguments for these, but that's just what I believe. Very well. It's not like mine's any more credible. S Tier Rachel Nu Arakune Jin A Tier Carl Litchi B Tier Tao Noel Ragna C Tier Bang Tager D Tier Hakumen
MetaKnight0 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 ChuDat made Ice Climbers (SSBM) go up like 3 tiers after a single tournament. I know that this isn't Smashboards, but if Tager is capable of winning so cleanly, it shouldn't appear to be the opposite. But my idea of what the tiers should look like are nothing like the current :X thats a lot like carl shooting up the list. before clap trap was commonly done, carl was around the bottom. it took quite long for ssbm since there are both so many characters, and such a wide gap between them (so much that almost everyone plays the top 4 out of 26 characters). so you need a lot of balls to even play a character below captain falcon. the game is unbalanced as fuck. even now DK is a lot higher than i remember seeing him and that's after Brawl came out. blazblue has a lot more players playing the low tiers than in ssbm so it's a lot easier to figure out just how good a character is.
Raiderwarlord99 Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 Top Tier: Nu Rachel Arakune High Tier: Jin Carl Mid Tier: Taokaka Noel Ragna Litchi Low Tier: Hakumen Bang Bottom Tier: Tager IMO the only tier that can have any changes is mid tier. Everything else is set in stone.
Skye Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I don't quite understand why Jin never ascended to Top tier, I've seen him in action, he's full of tech trap and some really high damage combos that only require like 25 meter at the least, plus he can chip HP from max to damn near empty with max heat, it's crazy, he really does have everything, a jack and master of all trades, no bad match ups, high damage, rush downs. He's definitely top tier potential, right below Arakune.
Spirit Juice Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I don't quite understand why Jin never ascended to Top tier, I've seen him in action, he's full of tech trap and some really high damage combos that only require like 25 meter at the least, plus he can chip HP from max to damn near empty with max heat, it's crazy, he really does have everything, a jack and master of all trades, no bad match ups, high damage, rush downs. He's definitely top tier potential, right below Arakune. It mainly has to do with his match ups. While he may have no real bad match ups, he doesn't have any heavily in his favor like the top do.
XDest Posted November 4, 2009 Posted November 4, 2009 I believe if we were going by tools, Litchi would probably be at the top of the mid tier. A DP that's difficult to punish at tip range, great aerials/air-to-air game, amazing corner games and traps, good anti-airs, and fine damage output in general. And while she has the staff, she's got pretty big hitboxes on her moves. imo, a lot like the tools Jin personally has, and he's high tier. Can anybody tell me why they think Litchi is worse than Taokaka, Ragna and Noel?
Bachmut Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I believe if we were going by tools, Litchi would probably be at the top of the mid tier. A DP that's difficult to punish at tip range, great aerials/air-to-air game, amazing corner games and traps, good anti-airs, and fine damage output in general. And while she has the staff, she's got pretty big hitboxes on her moves. imo, a lot like the tools Jin personally has, and he's high tier. Can anybody tell me why they think Litchi is worse than Taokaka, Ragna and Noel? correct me if i'm wrong, but to me it seems litchi only has the corner game to apply a lot of preassure and dmg. she also has good zoning abilities and some defensive options but compared to jin, tao, ragna and noel she lacks both dmg and a solid midscreen preassure game. don't get me wrong... she got some pretty good mixups... i mean just look at her corner game, but all the other listed charakters can literally stick to the enemy, especially to those who lack defensive options. litchi kind of pushes the enemy away with her guard strings. well that's at least the way it felt to me when i played her... and again correct me if i'm worng since my expirience with her is very limited.
Zenmetsu Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 I believe if we were going by tools, Litchi would probably be at the top of the mid tier. A DP that's difficult to punish at tip range, great aerials/air-to-air game, amazing corner games and traps, good anti-airs, and fine damage output in general. And while she has the staff, she's got pretty big hitboxes on her moves. imo, a lot like the tools Jin personally has, and he's high tier. Can anybody tell me why they think Litchi is worse than Taokaka, Ragna and Noel? Litchi isn't as high as the lot of you are making her out to be. You are arbitrarily assigning your opinions to Litchi's attributes so your perspective is skewed. What are "great", "amazing", "good", and "fine" supposed to mean? You can't use arbitrary adjectives like these as a measure for a character's worth. When you scrutinize Litchi's playstyle at high-level play you will realize that the majority of what you said is wrong. - A DP that's difficult to punish: Sorry, but this an argument related to execution so it's already moot right off the bat. It might be difficult for scrubs to punish but at high-level play every character has a way to set up oki so that they can consistently punish her DP. And since we only look at high-level play when determining tiers (at least I hope that's what we're doing) this argument involving punishment, which is clearly just a topic about execution, is out the window. - Amazing corner game and traps: Her entire corner game revolves around knowing exactly how the opponent is going to tech. She doesn't have a "universal" option that account for all types of ways the opponent can wake up. If she did then MAYBE she would be high tier (with a brain-dead playstyle), but the truth is this isn't the case. Her corner pressure is better than most of the cast but even the Japanese agree that Rachel has the strongest okizeme in the game. Litchi okizeme isn't fluid. It requires more technicalities than the majority of the cast; otherwise, she won't be able to get an optimal follow-up combo afterward. This technical aspect in itself is an inherent weakness to Litchi's pressure game because it restricts her abare. - Good anti-air: I don't know where to start about how wrong this is, but when her "best" anti-air in certain match-ups with stick is going for a counter-hit 5A into unhitconfirmable risky 41236A then something should tip you off that her anti-air is lacking. By the way, her 5A[m] is not JCable so you are forced to follow-up with risky special moves that put you at huge disadvantage when you can't even hit-confirm if you got the CH or not. In fact, I would say the anti-air department is one of Litchi's WEAKNESSES. - Fine damage output: Fine damage output in comparison to who? Bang without meter? Have you seen Litchi B&B damage output? I'd argue that Litchi has one of the lowest average damage outputs in the game when she has trouble breaking 3k damage with the majority of her commonly used B&B combos. I think the only thing you said that is true is the fact that she's strong in the air. This I won't dispute because there's enough evidence out there that justifies your statement. But Litchi is NOTHING like Jin. Let's look at something you've forgotten to mention which is the ability for characters to punish Bursts. Jin excels in this aspect probably more than anybody since the majority of his move are jump-cancellable. Litchi has lots of points in her combo string that requires her to commit so she is very easy to Burst. Just taking this into consideration Litchi is already a lot LESS like Jin.
SuperKawaiiDesu Posted November 5, 2009 Posted November 5, 2009 - A DP that's difficult to punish: Sorry, but this an argument related to execution so it's already moot right off the bat. It might be difficult for scrubs to punish but at high-level play every character has a way to set up oki so that they can consistently punish her DP. And since we only look at high-level play when determining tiers (at least I hope that's what we're doing) this argument involving punishment, which is clearly just a topic about execution, is out the window. Im really confused as to why people talk about it being a moot point. It has a shorter punish window, and puts her only at standing CH as opposed to Jins (crouch CH or D DP which is also good but blows meter) and Ragnas (you have the choice of an air CH OR ground CH for optimal damage) and on whiff, much harder to punish. Its not like that DP is only good on oki. It also is pretty good in the sense that it clashes with almost nothing to my knowledge, as opposed to ragna's who can get clashed, or jins who can get poked but still get his DP blocked. Just my input on that one bit!
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