Soniti Posted October 3, 2009 Author Posted October 3, 2009 I have started updating the first post with changes from the 10/3-10/4 loke test.
Emerald Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 I have started updating the first post with changes from the 10/3-10/4 loke test. Thank you for that. Looking over it, the changes don't seem encouraging at all. Basically they added back her basic BnB combo making so she can corner well again but to me it seems that this makes her a one trick pony. Outside the corner she isn't strong but if you can just manage to get it then she can still work. I am far from an expert on Rachel but these changes do not seem encouraging, however I assume there are still a few more tests at least before they complete the game for release.
KaiAskari Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 *cheers for George combos returning!* But wow. Wind doesn't recharge while on the ground? Guess we'll be spending a lot of time in the air, which makes the j2c nerf hurt just a little bit more, I think. Hm. The Tempest Dahlia not using wind, but possibly based on the number of stocks is rather interesting, though.
ryokoalways Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 No, it means when you are downed, not when you are "on the ground".
KaiAskari Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. I also just relooked at the loke test thread... so wind recovery speed varies, and Tempest Dalia consumes 1 wind. o_o; Pretty neat, but it's still the waiting game. Thanks again for all the updates!
kro_ Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 I wonder if it's possible to 3c 236a otg into frog, then 3c 22a 3c into another frog before the frog recast timer is up. Either way is fine to me though, frog combo into frog + pumpkin oki was too good anyway but frog otgs are definitely needed. Things are looking a little more hopeful, but I am still concerned with: 1) Speed of wind regen - I read that the speed gradually increases with time if you go without using wind for awhile. Hopefully the initial speed of recovery isn't too slow and the max is faster than the current rate. This change might actually be better for players who use all of their wind quickly for stronger combos and mixups. 2) If j.c has enough untechable time to follow with j.2c - I want to keep air combo into super even if it does less damage for forced knockdown. Also, j.2c into pumpkin oki. This also requires the following: 3) If j.2c can be canceled into normals or specials on hit - As long as she can get good damage off of a fast overhead on hit, her mixup game is still a threat though much riskier. This way she'll have a fast but very punishable overhead (j.3dc) and a slow, interruptable, but safe overhead on block (4b). j.3dc should be RC-able on block if it already isn't. 4) Hitstun/blockstun of pumpkin - At least enough to not have a gap if you follow it closely with a quick normal. It would be a real pain if for example, you hit the opponent with pumpkin during 5cdc and the low hitstun from pumpkin prevents 5cdc from comboing. I'd be pretty satisfied if these conditions were met. The recast timers for pumpkin and frog prevent the silly corner guardcrush strings and make her midscreen oki weaker. Punishable j.2c on block prevents safe, continuous overheads. The gradually increasing speed of wind regen also shortens how long she can keep up a pumpkin-assisted zoning game, which took advantage of slow but steady wind usage to keep people out. The nerfs would be significant, but she wouldn't be unplayable. Also, I am now suddenly interested if the giant King George XIII with a crown on its head will stay active after doing Tempest Dalia. Maybe it will have the characteristics of unlimited Rachel's frog: not disappearing on hit, high hp, and continuous shocks until killed. If this is true, then it might actually be worthwhile to fight without using wind for awhile in order to get him out.
KaiAskari Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 I'm afraid I don't know how to do the quote thing correctly, but, Ottawack311 posted this in the general CS discussion: I like that her frog is somewhat back. I hope the lag time is low enough to where you can put pressure on with it outside of combos. Maybe this just hurts the pressure a little. What they need to do is fix the j. 2c, I agree with no canceling on block with no wind. BUT, it should cancel on block with wind, that way it would nerf her mixup without killing it. No more j. 2c3d > 5b > j. 2c > 5b ..repeat This would all be much more balanced, especially with her new wind regen rules. She needs a good mix-up game, her zoning is not good enough to carry her and her normals have bad priority without pumpkin. She would still be top tier, but not as ridiculous. Like I heard on here before (i think), there are always going to be tiers..we can't take that out, so I would rather the top tier be the some of the toughest to use... I was curious what other Rachels might think about what Outtawack said. ~_~; I find myself ultimately being able to agree with just about everything stated between the arguments, so, ha, I don't really have any comments, as my commentary would change with every post. lol.
Soniti Posted October 5, 2009 Author Posted October 5, 2009 Video of Rachel at loke test 2: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8426432
Emerald Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Video of Rachel at loke test 2: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8426432 That looks somewhat encouraging. Finally getting a chance to see Tempest Dallia is nice, looked like it comboed off a hit from a 236b. The use of Sword Iris in the air allowed for some interesting tactics and while we didn't see a frog combo, the normal hit combos still seem to work well.
Alzarath Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 ^ ? frog combo was there.. ~2:58 She still seems to be viable.. but then again we don't have anything really solid to go by, yet. I like aerial sword iris.
Emerald Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 ^ ? frog combo was there.. ~2:58 She still seems to be viable.. but then again we don't have anything really solid to go by, yet. I like aerial sword iris. Ah, your right. I missed it. Watching it over again, I can see George being affected by the wind being both good and bad. That player used George to add pressure which is nice. He also doesn't seem to be as slow as originally described. The only other thing I thought I saw was George activating slightly faster.
kro_ Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 It looks like they got rid of the delay for aerial BBL since he managed to combo it after a j.c. The wind regen rate looks good. Something between 3-4 seconds to regen 1 stock after use. I didn't see a frog life meter or pumpkin recast meter, but I did see a frog recast meter that lasted ~2 sec after the frog went poof. Frog crawl speed is decent. Winding the frog and tempest dalia look like fun. Tempest dalia seems to have good frame advantage on block when a bull comes out. 6a still has a huge hitbox. I'm not noticing a delay in 236b/c so if it's there it should be minor. Air sword iris is awesome. 5b after j.2c on hit and j.2c after j.c in the air aren't looking good. That player didn't j.2c after a corner BBL. It might imply that you can't even special cancel it on hit, but still nothing is certain. What was that movie that had the goat in a typhoon during the preview? It came out around the same time as Volcano. Tempest dalia reminds me of that.
Alzarath Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 It looks like they got rid of the delay for aerial BBL since he managed to combo it after a j.c. Yeah, I was actually wondering if it was a valid combo since the super obscured the hit counter. Looks like it was. Things are looking good so far.
ryokoalways Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 You can't combo off counter lobelia anymore. Even counter hit it's fairly quick tech time.
ArkiveZero Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 at 0:47 it looked like he canceled j.2C with 214C
Kurumster Posted October 5, 2009 Posted October 5, 2009 Rachel looking playable woooooooooooooooooo :P
Xtra_Zero Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 You can't combo off counter lobelia anymore. Even counter hit it's fairly quick tech time. STUPID STUPID DUMB what else am I going to use those rods for?! Pumpkin range looks so short Air Iris looks gooooooooood The angle of j.B looks different. Maybe it's just me.
Outtawack311 Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 I gotta say that some of these changes look interesting. I am seeing possibilities in moving george with the wind. The air iris seems very good and abusable too (good air iris pressure and tiger kneeing the iris is already happening in these vids) The frog timer seems almost pointless with how fast it is, but it does hurt the pressure a little bit. Is it just me, or does the wind regen change seem like a buff in this video? It almost seems faster.... its probably an illusion though. So far its not nearly as bad as expected, but I just wish they would make j. 2c usable. I agree it needed to be nerfed because I abuse the hell out of it now, but at this point I don't even see a reason for it to be in CS. I know I won't use it, unless its by force of habit (that is unless someone finds a good use for it).
True_Tech Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 from what i read if you have more than 2 stock the wind regens faster than currently. also it looks to me like j.b has been buffed, though i don't recall that in the changes. it definitely looks longer
Alzarath Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 wtf, j.a can really be blocked crouching? ugh, bye-bye instant j.a overheads ;_; WHY IS ARCSYS MAKING EVERYONE INTO CRIPPLES! D:
Xtra_Zero Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 wtf, j.a can really be blocked crouching? ugh, bye-bye instant j.a overheads ;_; WHY IS ARCSYS MAKING EVERYONE INTO CRIPPLES! D: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU and I was just figuring out how to 83Dj.A. Hopefully new j.B works like that. I think I saw the guy in the video trying to do that.
Soniti Posted October 6, 2009 Author Posted October 6, 2009 FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU and I was just figuring out how to 83Dj.A. Hopefully new j.B works like that. I think I saw the guy in the video trying to do that. People in videos were trying to triangle/82d j.b but it's very slow.
Xtra_Zero Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 In the Rachel VS Jin vid, BBL gets mad prorated from something, probably frog.
Celcius Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 So Rachel's viable overheads are j.2c (risky) and 4b (slow) now? Has anyone used 4b in vids anyway? I wonder how much faster it is now?
Discotheque Posted October 6, 2009 Posted October 6, 2009 BBL was OP, so the damage nerf sounds good, not to mention you can now combo a air BBL in some of the aerials so its fair. The balance seems a bit more fair now. Problem is that everyone is going to block low instead of high now.
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