[CS1] Rachel Info and Discussion

[Soniti]

This thread is now just for general Rachel BBCS discussion. The following information is from location tests and should be ignored

OUTDATED LOKETEST CHANGES (10/3-10/4):

System Mechanics:

nerf: Wind no longer recharges while otg

kinda un-nerf: Wind recharges faster (still has a pause before it starts regenerating though)

buff: wind starts recovering faster once you have 2 charges

Moves:

nerf: Frog only does 604 dmg (as opposed to 1182 iirc in BB:CT). Still 8 hits.

nerf: j.a is no longer an overhead

nerf: 6c does less damage.

nerf: 236a/b/c projectiles disappear if rachel is hit during them.

partial un-nerf: Pumpkin flies slightly further than first loke

unknown: 4d doesn't pull the opponent in as much

Combos:

nerf: as far as i can tell, you can no longer combo into 6dc from any of the normal methods (6b CH, 5b on standing opponent...)

un-nerf: Frog combos are back in! Tsubaki is a 3c frog character. (keep in mind you don't get frog oki and super damage is heavily nerfed. also, thanks to frog gauge you can't do a frog combo if you already have/recently had a frog out).

buff (to replace old method): j.c xx air BBL is possible now.

still in: Combos to frog after super!

still in: j.3d2c combos on crouching (haven't seen whether you can 5b after it though if you do)

still in: j.c 2d dj j.c land super still works! I wonder if this means that the j.c hitstun reduction isn't as much as we thought or that they changed it back for this loke...

still in: (5b) 3d j.a j.a j.b 5b ~

still in: 2c CH 2d 5b air combo (including into j.c 2d dj j.c land super)

New Moves:

Tempest Dalia: (uses one wind to activate along with 50% meter)- 1 wind at start results inrelease of 5 koumori (bats).

2 winds result in 4 koumori + 1 bull

3 winds result in 2 koumori + 2 bulls + 1 pumpkin

4 winds result in 2 bulls + 2 pumpkins + king george.

^thanks ryokoalways for details

First Loke Test (9/26-9/27):

System Mechanics:

nerf:Guard Libra Points: 4 (pretty low, she can't turtle much at all anymore)

nerf: There is a pause after using wind before it begins recovering again

Moves

nerf: j.2c no longer chains to j.c on block

nerf: j.2c is no longer jump-cancelable on block

nerf: j.2c is no longer special move cancelable (no more canceling to pumpkin -- bye bye oki)

unknown: j.2c can be canceled to one of her supers (dunno which one) during first half of recovery (not sure if this only applies to hit, or block too)

MAJOR NERF: j.2c is no longer cancelable on landing frames (JP BBS notes that if your opponent blocks j.2c, they can begin counterattacking -- Rachel loses momentum entirely. Unsure about how it works on hit.)

nerf: j.c hitstun reduced (no more relaunch combos or air combos to super? or maybe just no more iad combos)

nerf: 6b counterhit stun reduced (this means no more comboing directly into 6dc and no more dash super)

nerf: 236b/c have longer recovery time

nerf: Baden Baden Lily damage significantly reduced (JP BBS cites 2200 for melee super, 3800 for melee + 1 pole).

nerf: 6a loses to more attacks than it used to. Not sure exactly why yet.

nerf: 6a is no longer a guard point. possibly still heat attribute invulnerable? (can no longer eat projectiles)

nerf: more recovery on 3c

pumpkin changes (MAJOR NERF)

Pumpkin hitbox disappears if Rachel gets hit after it is activated

Almost no hitstun

Doesn't fly very far

+frames on block much less

Cannot summon another pumpkin while one is active. when the pumpkin disappears, a timer with 2 seconds appears. until that timer runes out, you cannot summon another pumpkin.

frog changes (MAJOR NERF)

Now has it's own life meter

Shorter activation range

No longer activates while the opponent is down

The frog no longer jumps -- it now crawls at a snails pace (but it is now affected by wind and slides like crazy if you use it)

Cannot summon another frog while one is active. when the frog disappears, a timer with 2 seconds appears. until that timer runs out, you cannot summon another frog.

buff: sword iris now usable in the air (command changed to 214c). it supposedly has very little landing recovery

buff: 4b is a bit faster

new move: New distortion drive called Tempest Dalia -- uses up all winds and will change depends on the number of wind left. Summons random projectiles and stuff onto the screen.

Combos

nerf: can no longer combo into frog, it literally won't attack an opponent during a combo and moves too slowly (this is bad, means less ability to regen wind during combos, and probably worse/no okizeme)

nerf: 3c9d combos became more strict (aka probably no more linking 6c from this. in combination with j.c untechable time this probably means the only way to super will be spending 2 wind to 3c9d 5b 4d super... IF that's even possible.)

Credit to Ceryn, Outtawack311, stunedge, ryokoalways and others for this info.

[Soniti]

Screenshots, videos and whatnot:

New Distortion Drive, Tempest Dalia:

Videos

Rachel vs Hazama @ 10-3/10-4 loke test: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm8426432

[EvilWolf]

Damn Rachel got nerfed so badly I am not looking forward to BB:CS!

[chun_li1]

buff: sword iris now usable in the air (command changed to 214c)

Id like to know if you can move, act after doing that move or if youre unable to move all the way until you hit ground like Air frog & seed.

If you cant do anything, then thats a pretty garbage buff.

But if you could, that would be really cool, open up new tactics when youre in the air. Plant seeds & poles and let them sprout:keke:

[TTRlovesMittens]

Is j.２C still double jump cancel-able on block?

[Xtra_Zero]

My princess what have they done to youuuuuuuuuu~

[Outtawack311]

Is j.２C still double jump cancel-able on block?

From what everyone else says j .2c isn't cancelable on block at all. Its like an air cat chair, once its blocked you're done. Free combos galore. The only good it does with these changes would be midcombo, and that really doesn't help it.

I just can't imagine they would keep most of these nerfs. It seems like they don't know what to do to balance her while keeping her game the same, so they are trying anything they can think of and putting it in loke tests.

I hope she wont change too much

[Discotheque]

I guess you have to do j(3D)->ja->jb->jC (maybe?)-land->5A/5B->combo now. Harder than before.

[Kyosuke Kagami]

I want to imagine that people will complain during loke test and they'll buff Rachel a bit more.

The wind thing, I can understand... but fucking j2c being nerfed that badly? It's a very excellent move to make some pressure (combined with wind), making it very punishable would make Rachel not as good trying to be offensive, unless they're thinking of new tools to compensate.

[Voidddd]

nerf: can no longer combo into frog this is a sad day for all us rachel mainers

[Postulio]

wait.....are you positive you cant combo to a frog?......that seems a bit freaking forced by the developers.....

[Soniti]

Yes, and yes. I wish they would at least leave it in for the corner, but no =(

[Kyosuke Kagami]

Maybe you can't combo into frog because the damned thing is too slow now to reach the enemy. That's my supposition. I ignore what the real cause is ;/ I want to imagine they'll compensate this by doing other things. I dunno, maybe increasing her normals' damage?

[TTRlovesMittens]

Wow, unless I see someone DJC the new j.2c I'm going to reserve my complaints. George combos I never really did so that won't effect my game as much as maybe the new pumpkin and j.2C strictness. Still, j.2c I WILL admit is starting to become over-nerfed, they should AT LEAST retain DJC-ability, if she had that then I wouldn't be AS mad about the landing recovery thing (still mad about that though)

[Xtra_Zero]

Jesus christ will the bad news stop already I mean seriously it just keeps coming: More lag on B/C lobelia. Just break her legs and put her in a wheelchair already.

[Soniti]

Why do I have a feeling that more recovery on 236b/c may prevent certain combos, such as CH dash 5b air combo and super... or even Sword Iris? D: Also makes it much more dangerous to use them period...

[quartercirclebk]

New change, hot off the presses from the latest loketest... Rachelの特性は極度の粉砕の兄弟からの砂袋と取り替えるある Ran it through a translator and I got "As for the quality of Rachel you exchange with the Sandbag from the sibling of extreme pulverization, it is" "Sibling of extreme pulverization", I'm pretty sure we can assume that's Super Smash Brothers. So it looks like they'll be replacing Rachel with Sandbag from SSB. I believe this is a fair and justified nerf and is actually an improvement upon the current list of changes for her.

[comoesa]

Lol rachel got hit hard.

[iKotomi]

Does anyone know what frog meter means? Is it in reference to some kind of super, or is it more like something you have to charge to keep george out? Nerf to wind is probably going to mean you want to get as much out of your recharge time, and use your wind as close to each other as possible if you're using it within the dead time. Looks like Rachel's going to be even more of a, "get in, do as much damage as possible, get out when you think you've done enough damage" kind of character.

[ant12292]

How the "Pumpkin hitbox disappears if Rachel gets hit after it is activated" is just completely stupid. I honestly hope that these changes do not stay like this. Some of them are really just unneccessary.

[chun_li1]

Smells like GG Slash all this nerfing business. I bet some stuff will be put back to its old self at the end of the loc test or the next BB like in AC lol

[Kyosuke Kagami]

If that were the case, then the most affected one would be Arakune and not Rachel lol I'm still sure they're do something to compensate all these nerfs. In any case I won't stop using mah Rachel <3

[Spirit Juice]

From the changes, it sounds like they're trying to change Rachel into a completely zoning type of character. It's kind of lame if you ask me; part of the reason I started playing her was because of her ability to turtle and then rush down when given the chance. If all her nerfs stay in the game, I probably won't play her anymore and will switch to Ragna.

Some corrections that you should update, Soniti:

- George no longer activates when the opponent is knocked down, which is why OTG George combos no longer work at all.

- j.2C cannot be cancelled into special moves, making it officially worthless. I see absolutely no reason to use this move at all now since you can't use it as an overhead and combo off of it, and you likely cannot use it after j.C for knockdown (since j.C untech time is shorter, j.2C -> JC, dj.2C probably no longer works).

[Xtra_Zero]

Confirmed j.2C is completely uncancelable on block. No attack, no jump, no landing cancel. You use j.2c you die.

[kro_]

What can you do off j.2c on hit?