[CS1] Lambda General Discussion

[kenja0]

wait, there's a new loke test? yes, yes there is..

and wait, they got rid of jdd > j214d? wut can someone define hit stop for me?

shady direction they're headed in... only a few more weeks until the final patch though. oh well. at least Nu is back in the next BB... haha

Next BlazBlue they're going to make connecting normals extremely hard, use shortcut commands, implement a sharp proration after 2 hits, and introduce this interesting mechanic called Focus. And with that, they're going to compete directly with Street Fighter at its own game style and hope to win.

[zaeris]

Next BlazBlue they're going to make connecting normals extremely hard, use shortcut commands, implement a sharp proration after 2 hits, and introduce this interesting mechanic called Focus. And with that, they're going to compete directly with Street Fighter at its own game style and hope to win.

try playing fate unlimited code ^^, from this j.dd it seems like we're suppose to do jd tk crescent feint jd jc jd something like a 3 hit sword juggle ^^, since it only mention Jdd meaning the second D to carry this property. It would be totally amusing if it was the case, at least I can use it as example of arc trolling.

[kenja0]

try playing fate unlimited code ^^, from this j.dd it seems like we're suppose to do jd tk crescent feint jd jc jd something like a 3 hit sword juggle ^^, since it only mention Jdd meaning the second D to carry this property. It would be totally amusing if it was the case, at least I can use it as example of arc trolling.

But with more recovery on TK Crescent, is that even possible without bluebeating? What's the standard window for cancel combos?

[germanturkey]

single j.d hits would hilarious on so many levels. but on the inside i'd be crying.

[Andru]

+ Sickle will bounce aerial opponent multiple times, red-beats. Beats out jumps.

Interesting

- 4B's first hit has enormous hit stop. Way more time to reposition yourself.

Just a thought. The second part of this sentence doesn't really have any relation at all to 4B's first hit. We only really needed to reposition after 4B's second hit to combo. Could they have meant second hit? Or do they mean in the opponent's view, "reposition yourself to block the 2nd hit overhead".

[St1ckBuG]

+ Sickle will bounce aerial opponent multiple times, red-beats. Beats out jumps.

Interesting

I wish there was more detail on this...

D:

[Andarel]

I'm thinking (hoping) it means:

236D connecting with an aerial opponent now just bluebeats, bouncing them up and down until they realize they should probably tech out of it. Since I think 236D has more hits (6?) in the new loketest, could it be that a blocked 236D will catch people trying to jump out of it (hits are closer together and snag them out of jump startup) and do a little air-bounce combo to set up for whatever the hell you want? Considering how long a connected 236D stuns for due to its multiple hits, especially if they get caught by the 2nd or 3rd hit rather than a later one...dunno, some aircombo? Might be too far for 236C to connect.

@4B - They have more time to stop holding downback between the two hits. Still not sure why Arc would do this, but whatever.

[kenja0]

They've already established Lambda's 236D having a faster startup. Maybe instead of 214D after a sweep, we can 236B into a 236D>236C double primer breaking blockstring.

Also, maybe we can do something like 214D©, get air blocked, position for a 236D in prediction to that and do a 236C for a triple primer breaker.

Edited November 18, 2010 by kenja0

[Andru]

Mm if the startup is good enough then we're gonna be eating primers all day son.

[Arcade Fire87]

Honestly, it sounds like Lamba shouldn't even be a zoner with these idiotic changes. Knock down on the second 5D? I know the games not out, but it sounds like a lot of the cast is being dumbed down in general

[Andarel]

In all honesty, isn't that kind of a strong assumption to make when we don't know what that change even actually means and/or how it'll affect her combos and zoning game? If it lets us do silly nonsense like 5DD 236D d.6DD etc. against people in the air at certain ranges (I doubt it's got that much hitstun or 236D was made fast enough), and if it somehow makes her get a more rewarding setup off predicting a dash with 5DD than 5DD 236B...I won't be complaining. Shame I don't think we'll get any Nu-esque RC shenanigans to launch after 236D though.

Regardless. I'll need to see or mess with the Crescent tweaks to judge those. Did we get an opinion from Goro this time around? I remember the summary tossed out had people being quite happy with Lambda. Not surprised that she's stronger, but I'll have to see some videos to truly believe it.

[Andru]

I wanna see tons of 236D shenanigans...I have so many ideas but doubt any would work so I'm waiting :P

Edited November 18, 2010 by Andru

[zaeris]

In all honesty, isn't that kind of a strong assumption to make when we don't know what that change even actually means and/or how it'll affect her combos and zoning game? If it lets us do silly nonsense like 5DD 236D d.6DD etc. against people in the air at certain ranges (I doubt it's got that much hitstun or 236D was made fast enough), and if it somehow makes her get a more rewarding setup off predicting a dash with 5DD than 5DD 236B...I won't be complaining. Shame I don't think we'll get any Nu-esque RC shenanigans to launch after 236D though.

Regardless. I'll need to see or mess with the Crescent tweaks to judge those. Did we get an opinion from Goro this time around? I remember the summary tossed out had people being quite happy with Lambda. Not surprised that she's stronger, but I'll have to see some videos to truly believe it.

It's all fun and speculation, why not get more involved. As long as people can tell the difference between speculation and reality *dum*dum* there's really no issue. With that said it would be interesting to get some video, as for Goro, even though he is a great lambda im praying he isn't attach to lambda like H.H was to rachel even saying her changes are not that bad which is what fanboy's tend to do and Goro probably the biggest anime/idol fanboy out there in the BB scene. 236D which allows air hit to connect, Ideally something like act C delay 236d air hit into stuff would be rather fun to do. Then we have the infamous 6c non wall bounce which could go 2c CH (lift) 6c 236DC 236c ectera assuming it is fast enough.

[germanturkey]

man, i haven't done a 236d since CT (not counting the one time i did it in CS and saw how shit it was). they're completely changing her style of play, which is a very meh move in my book.

but like i said before, Goro and Minori both play very radical zoning styles, so if they change that severely, who knows what they'll end up doing or thinking.

[SolarMisae]

Oh yay sickle might be useful again. :D

I can't wait to see how it's changes work out. I'm hoping for some fun new shenanigans as well.

[Andarel]

I'm fine with them spicing up her playstyle. If she gets better at controlling space (which slowed-down swords really screwed her over in, though the 214D buffs between CT and CS made a little progress in helping...) and her combos get more varied (really, her combo game is pretty linear) I'll be happy. It looks like Arcsys is trying to give her more options, and since that's one of her big problems in this game, I'd like to see where it goes. Shenanigans are always good.

Apparently Sickle Chaser is good now. Could this be the game where both 214D and 236D are actually useful?

[zaeris]

http://kalfisquine.net/blog/?p=877#more-877

I found this to be interesting, at least from what said, arc has an idea but unsure about how to go about it, so does this mean the end to combo and just zoning into pea size damage into KD into more zoning?

awell, life goes on.

Arc System Works also commented on what they're trying to achieve with the CS2 changes. They are as followed:

Lambda: Still tuning, but she will be even more specialized in the spacing and zoning

[Andarel]

Bah, Nu was a zoner and we know how much damage she got off random hits. If ASW makes it so we get better damage off random sword hits or 236D (which is a fine combo starter, especially if we can combo after ground-hit 5DD with something other than 236B), it'll far more than make up for the loss of a crappy DP. The real gamebreaker for better or for worse will be the changes to j214D rather than j.DD or 5DD, I think.

[severin]

j.DD knockdown is listed as a buff. I'm sure some fun things have been found.

[Andarel]

^ Yeah, that's why I'm interested in what happens with it. If it was a nerf it'd be a weird one, but considering it may still connect to dj.2DD...that wouldn't change much. If we get some sort of oki after aerial sword combo, well, as unexciting as Lambda's oki game is (secretly, somewhere, people gettin' hit by dash 4B) I can't complain about more opportunities.

[zaeris]

Bah, Nu was a zoner and we know how much damage she got off random hits. If ASW makes it so we get better damage off random sword hits or 236D (which is a fine combo starter, especially if we can combo after ground-hit 5DD with something other than 236B), it'll far more than make up for the loss of a crappy DP. The real gamebreaker for better or for worse will be the changes to j214D rather than j.DD or 5DD, I think.

that crappy DP was our only 13 sec cool down delay, It wasn't game breaking that they had to remove the invul frame. I would prefer if everyone's Dp had a 780 frame cool down bar. To keep the game more honest. 214D changes occur due to its primer breaking advantage which is like one of the few move that broke primer and combos it was probably done to keep it in line with other primer attacks. I would be content if 236d start up was enough that 5d-> 236d became a solid block string.

jdd untechable till landing would be useful if it acted like CT crescent saber which KD and was untechable till grounded. Fun things? well if it came to something j.dd at max height Tk cancel air dash j2c that would be interesting.

[Andru]

I wanna see some 236D bounce TK Crescent x N (Knock them into the sickle and back up :3)

Or j.DD someone onto a 236D >)

[Andarel]

Yeeaaahhhhhh.... IB -> backdash (and IB in general) and chicken blocking weakened. Plus CA nerfs. What do you think the best ways will be to get out of pressure come CS2?

Still, good shit ASW.

[zaeris]

Yeeaaahhhhhh.... IB -> backdash (and IB in general) and chicken blocking weakened. Plus CA nerfs. What do you think the best ways will be to get out of pressure come CS2?

Still, good shit ASW.

I will troll u with a don't get hit line ^^. Defence wise just don't let them near you in the first place and keep running ^^. In practicallity your zoning is your defence, just don't messed that up. But if you're already blocking something read their character data and escape accordinging with IB in general, don't barrier too much ^^, I've been cheese with Barrier jumping where if you barrier it prevents you from performing a Jump which always gets me because im use to barrier IB+barrier from playing GG. especially with people charge unblockable shenenigans.

The ideal is A instant block barrier to push them out a little since there is a pushback effect with barrier which in cases like ragna 5b 6a 6b 3c ectera if you can barrier block+ IB or maybe just barrier by itself is enough for 3c to whiff.

Ib plus jump frames, IB block is -5 which can create gaps, most BB characters have a 4 frame jump start up exception (litchi arakune) 3 frame basse on caculation guard stun + jump start you can use this on laggy gatling or just out right punish them with 5a if u believe you have an extra 2 frames advantage.

example jin 5c-> 6c/6b is start up frame which is a 19 frame start up (6c) 5c IB is 16 -5 leaving you a 8 frame of window... of course in this case just press 5a after jin's 5c unless its online then you pray it isn't laggy or mash harder.

tigher strings IB jump into an Air IB which is 10- allows for counter attacks with jb/ja ectera.. of course you pray the attack isn't air unblockable but since its CS2 this will change to just backdash or button to barrier (pushblock effect).

After that just keep praying.

Edited November 18, 2010 by zaeris

[Andarel]

Well, no duh. The main thing is that you'll be stuck blocking eventually...we're now looking at air-unblockable 5B/5C moves and only -2/-3 on IB, which is less than jump startup...so that's a worse option now. CA was generally reliable, not sure if it still is.