[CS1] Bang Discussion and Question Thread

[CrimsonDisaster]

Why not let the guy fight his own battles?

In the context that he still hasn't apologized for his disrespect to Showmeyamoves, him mocking what I had posted is certainly mildly frustrating. There was no need for him to try to explain a reason why it "wasn't terrifying", but he did anyway, even though I already knew them all. He doesn't take anyone on this board seriously, it seems, which is why I reminded him to respect people's intelligence.

News flash, nobody takes 2009ers/BB-only posters seriously. You want people to respect you, yet you didn't listen to people who were actually PLAYING THE GAME when you were just watching videos. Now suddenly you and the rest of the 2009 "we watch vids so we know more than people actually playing the game" circle jerk are worth respecting just because you have access to the game now?

Just a friendly reminder that until respect is earned, it is not often given.

[Dacidbro]

News flash, nobody takes 2009ers/BB-only posters seriously. You want people to respect you, yet you didn't listen to people who were actually PLAYING THE GAME when you were just watching videos. Now suddenly you and the rest of the 2009 "we watch vids so we know more than people actually playing the game" circle jerk are worth respecting just because you have access to the game now?

Just a friendly reminder that until respect is earned, it is not often given.

You idiot, I play offline in southern california COMPETITIVELY. Try again.

And who are you, anyway, like anyone knows your name that you could try to flip that one around

[Dacidbro]

Lmao

[CrimsonDisaster]

do you also play Smash COMPETITIVELY

If you were around before BB and played GG, you would have a better chance of knowing who I am. But you weren't, so oop aww so sorry I'm not a big name WC player since you probably haven't heard of anybody outside of WC/Japan anyways. You probably haven't even heard of yourself, Weak Coast/JokeCal at its finest.

Litchi has great oki too, but she doesn't have a command grab, double overhead, tick command grab, or a godly crossup like j.4B. She has the stick which forces you to block or reversal, but that's about it...you block it and the following overhead or low and that's it. Bang forces a guess whereas you can react to anything Litchi does. Litchi is better than Bang in CS, but oki isn't the reason.

Tager has THREE command grabs, a double overhead, tick command grab, a crossup, AND magnetizes you. Best oki in the game? A COMMAND GRAB IS THAT IMPORTANT?

I also like how you didn't actually respond to the fact that Litchi has all of that and more, minus a command grab, but with a billion better options for everything else, but NO BANG HAS A COMMAND GRAB, IT'S THAT IMPORTANT. So why is Bang's oki better than Tager's, and if it is, then why can you use that reasoning to ignore everything Litchi's oki has over Bang's but not everything Tager's oki has over Bang's?

If you say "50/50's" then you are wrong.

[Reioumu]

Who cares if anyone here plays smash competitively. This is about Blazblue. (Though I was in the scene for smash 2006-pound4). Crimson, it seems like the only reason you're even posting is just to pick on Dacidbro. Though to be honest, Dacid did overreact earlier. Cut it out you two :/. It's pretty childish. You also forgot to mention about Tager's awesome 2C anti-air lol. Better than anything bang has for AA. Bang's oki is completely different than Tager's... Tager's is a mixup after gadget finger (360/720/Atomic Collider/Sledge) while Bang's is a "Do I tech or not tech" option. Bang can relaunch enemies staying on the ground with 2A 5B pretty easily and can also use it as an option select (5B will come out later and act as a meaty against people who tech). Though I'm curious as to the 2nd part of your post and why you referenced it.

[Dacidbro]

I didn't overreact, this guy is a tool. You aren't adding anything to this board, Crimson. You're doing more theory fighting than we are, so how can you talk as though we're the ones out on the edge? Oki wins more matches than small damage, statistically, in Japan, where they play better. Get the fuck over yourself, you're bad. And your Tager analogy is embarrassing, just edit it out. Like Tager is the second most mobile character in the game or has rushdown. God you're so stupid.

[tataki]

The possibilities are endless.. I don't know how I could pick just a couple

Bang can do anything, let your conscience be your guide.

If you need particularly bizarre combos, look for ATG.

Practical, Showmeyamoves.

*shrug*

I intend to put a few practical combos, a few weird ones and a few that explore something which I have yet to see in vids posted so far.

Like the 1st, the vid itself is mainly for entertainment. It teaches you some practical stuff and also gives you some ideas to think about but mostly it's for fun, hype and love for Bang.

[DaiAndOh]

When it becomes personal and we resort to name calling...I'd rather not take action like this really... If we're going to attack each other, take it away from these boards, go PM yourselves about it. Theory fighting while of course not the greatest, does have merit, it's good to come with theory and argue about it, as does suggesting ideas and having different viewpoints. I encourage everyone to have their own ideas so that we can get suggestions on how to better our game through community. It doesn't matter when someone entered the community, or what else they play, if they have something to ask/try/suggest, give it thought. tl;dr: Attack the idea, NOT the person. If that much doesn't end, I will take action. Now then, to continue the discussion, I like to go more for damage, but not completely, as I'll end bnb combos with j.c after a double jump usually. On rare occasions, I'll throw a poison nail in as a means to try to get someone to panic, as Bang's poison is pretty good now. Oki is a viable tool, and I'll go for it more on characters that have bad anti-air/pressure escapes. I'll go for damage way more often on Ragna and that damn Inferno Divider.

[Dacidbro]

What do you do when someone attacks the idea, but then another someone goes over the top and attacks the person, and continues to do so for pages? My own personal viewpoint would be to escalate it to the highest possible achievable argument, so it can't be ignored, and would have to be solved. That being said, I'll stop with the argument now. I apologize for the disturbance.

[Dacidbro]

Such a glorious endeavor I wish you the best

[ShoMeYaMoves]

I've been over this for a few days now. Thanks for defending me, Dacid. And thanks for championing the merits of air resets and max damage, Crimson. I hope we can bring this thread back to discussing what we're genuinely interested in; how to make Bang as beastly as possible, without the ad hominem entanglements.

[Dacidbro]

Some worthwhile notes I've taken; Notable Proration Starters: 5A (85/95) 6A (90/93) 5B (90/87) *2B (100/87) *6C (100/85) *3C (100/80) *623B (100/85) Air only jA (90/90) jB (90/87) jC (90/84) *j4C (100/91) jD (90/87) j623B (100/85) Corner/Air only *Airgrab (100/(100/82/92) Notably bad proration starters: 2A (70/87) 5C (75/89) 5D/2D (80/87) 6D (100/60) Grab (100/(100/82/60) Tick Grab 2A (L0 stun) 5A (L1 stun) Bang's two jA? (only differences) First 7F 13duration Second 5F 11duration Extra cancel(to itself) Notable frame data 5A 5 (!!!!) 5B 8, -1 on block and high proration 2A 8(!! much slower than 5A), 0stun, -2 on block 2B 13, good range, only CH for 18 frames (good for his longer range moves), excellent proration 6A 22, +1 on block, excellent proration,

[LAMG]

this is just a test recording, but something worth of some attention happens at 1:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XH366OWyig

damn carl and his robot sister!

[Dacidbro]

WOW. So, no random Daifunka's V Carl guys. Lol.

[ShoMeYaMoves]

Some worthwhile notes I've taken;

Notable Proration Starters:

5A (85/95)

6A (90/93)

5B (90/87)

*2B (100/87)

*6C (100/85)

*3C (100/80)

*623B (100/85)

Air only

jA (90/90)

jB (90/87)

jC (90/84)

*j4C (100/91)

jD (90/87)

j623B (100/85)

Corner/Air only

*Airgrab (100/(100/82/92)

Notably bad proration starters:

2A (70/87)

5C (75/89)

5D/2D (80/87)

6D (100/60)

Grab (100/(100/82/60)

Tick Grab

2A (L0 stun)

5A (L1 stun)

Bang's two jA? (only differences)

First 7F 13duration

Second 5F 11duration Extra cancel(to itself)

Notable frame data

5A 5 (!!!!)

5B 8, -1 on block and high proration

2A 8(!! much slower than 5A), 0stun, -2 on block

2B 13, good range, only CH for 18 frames (good for his longer range moves),

excellent proration

6A 22, +1 on block, excellent proration,

Are you sure 2B is 13 frames, could've sworn it's faster than in CT...or maybe it's just that other moves recover more quickly now. Great stuff though Dacid, thanks. Only thing that's missing is j.4B I believe. (Though it has great proration as well)

[Dacidbro]

Yeah, should be 13. And I left out j4B as far as notable prorations go, cause it prorates worse than all his other jump ins.. lets see.. its.. 85/91. Pretty good, but for his jump ins quite bad. Not to say don't use it, of course.

[Tsuuna]

Frankly, in reference to the prorattion chart.. I don't understand just what all of that MEANS. I understand the general concept simply out of "Doing this will make the rest of your combo do less damage, as compared to doing this." But, the numbers in reference to the damage scaling is what I simply don't comprehend.

[WUT]

First number is initial proration, aka if you start a combo with that particular hit it'll scale your combo's damage by that %. The second number is for proration during a combo, aka any hits following that hit in your combo will be scaled by that %. Practical purposes: start your combos with normals/specials that have a high initial proration, and if the second number isn't too low (80+ is decent), it's generally a good idea to try and add it in as an extra hit, if possible, for more damage. And 6D having no scaling as a first hit is nice, as its initial proration is complete ass in CT.

[huey253]

HEY ITS WUT! hows hazama going for you *sorry for being offtopic*

[Dacidbro]

I've heard (And personal experience backs this up) that the secondary proration factors in even if it's the first hit, so your first hit factors both numbers. For example, in all my experiences with 6D, even if I started the combo with it, the proration was SHIT TERRIBLE. I would rarely get more than 2k damage. Which, actually, makes a lot of sense if the secondary proration, 60, is applied to it. If only the initial, 100, was applied, I should be able to get some pretty unbelievable damage off a 6D starter... but I can't. Not only do I not break 3k, like I do on 3C, j4C, and 2B, I barely break 2k.

[huey253]

i think the 100 percent means the proration ON the 6D, meaning its going to do its full damage and then 60 percent proration to everything that follows. I Could be wrong but that seems to make sense.

[ShoMeYaMoves]

Nah, you can get good stuff off 6D. 6D>623B>d.5B>2B>j.b(j.4C)>j.623B>5B>2B>air combo ender It'll get from 2.8 to over 3k iirc. On a different note, I did a crazy freestyle combo earlier today with a friend to end a round. I had landed a 2D in the corner but it wasn't CH (and it was Tager) so I wanted to let him tech to see if I could get a good trap. It ended up looking like 2D>friend techs>sj.A>sj.B>sj.4C>dj.B>dj.4C>dj.623B>late RC so I did a j.D facing away from the corner>land>2B>623B>d.6C>j.623B>d.2B>ashura I have no idea how I'll replicate that situation again anytime soon though, lol.

[Dacidbro]

Lmao, what a combo. But yeah, what you just posted supports 60% factoring in even on the first hit, 2.8k is pretty close to exactly 60% of what that same combo would do started on j4C, which prorates 100/91 (Just CRAZY, so good)

[Tsuuna]

Oh, I see. That helps a lot then, so basically, just make use of what I can, with the highest/ closest to 100, for maximum damage output. It sure beats trial and error, when you know proration charts.

[Dacidbro]

Certainly does. I was shocked at how bad 5C prorates.. 6A makes it look weak as hell.