TheDarkWall Posted October 7, 2010 Posted October 7, 2010 Made famous in america by This post was made funnier by looking down and seeing SG's AV as the first thing.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 Wait, 2A slide? I've been doing that since like 2nd or 3rd month of playing CT. I hadn't seen a Bang do it at that time, I had seen Ragnas do it and tried it out with Bang. I abused that shit so much against people mashing neutral tech DP.
huey253 Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 Wait, 2A slide? I've been doing that since like 2nd or 3rd month of playing CT. I hadn't seen a Bang do it at that time, I had seen Ragnas do it and tried it out with Bang. I abused that shit so much against people mashing neutral tech DP. nah dude, thats DACID's gimmick. he made it famous and was the first person who used it in america as bang ...
Dacidbro Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 Man why doesn't anyone use this lol Even the top American players just fall for it over and over
Tsuuna Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 Looks like I haven't missed anything of value in here.
WolfCrimson Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 Hi, I was hoping some pros could help me with FRKZ. More specifically, how to deal with a FRKZed Bang as an opponent. As in, how to kill a FRKZed Bang. What I've noticed is that Bang cannot normal block in FRKZ, is crazy fast that even the other guy probably doesn't have proper control over him (tried it out in training, specials are hard to do without moving), and that made me think about my options against FuRinKaBang: 1. Sit there and get crossed/mixed up. And die. 2. Go after him. And maybe die. Or maybe kill him. A lot of people when they see Bang go FRKZ just sit there and try to block, which is futile because it's a case of "when" and not "if" against FRKZ. So what I thought I'd do is go after him, because, logically, he only can barrier, which is limited, and has longer blockstun than normal, so he really can't poke out well, other than attempt to cross-up, but that has a chance of scoring me a counterhit. So far it has positive results, compared to option 1. So what I am asking is, is all-out borderline suicidal offense a viable tactic against FRKZ? Can this tactic be countered by high level Bangs? If so, what other viable ways are there to make FRKZ Bang taste the ground? P.S. I don't know if this is the right place to ask, so if it isn't, would you please point me to that direction? Thanks.
huey253 Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 i'm not a pro or anything *looks at dacid* the most sucessful tactic i've seen used is goldburst combo into hard knockdown and meaty frkz bang on his wakeup. his dash is in counter hit state and has no invinicibilty, so even a CH jab can lead to loads of damage. cornering yourself to take away some of frkz's mixup also helps too. 5A anti air works cool too. other than that... your pretty much sol if the bang knows what to do, so burst the 4th seal.
Dacidbro Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 If you have a dragon punch, it's going to be very useful on reaction. Counter assault is GREAT, re-neutralizes the match if used intelligently. Understand his available options and his spacing to read whether he'll cross you up with jC or not. Basically, be smart, understand your opponent and his patterns.
huey253 Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 yeah.. CA is okay, but personally being at neutral with frkz bang is
ZONG_one Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 5 pages of dacid being trolled and grabbing on for dear life. That's what I like to see.
DaiAndOh Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 Hi, I was hoping some pros could help me with FRKZ. More specifically, how to deal with a FRKZed Bang as an opponent. As in, how to kill a FRKZed Bang. What I've noticed is that Bang cannot normal block in FRKZ, is crazy fast that even the other guy probably doesn't have proper control over him (tried it out in training, specials are hard to do without moving), and that made me think about my options against FuRinKaBang: 1. Sit there and get crossed/mixed up. And die. 2. Go after him. And maybe die. Or maybe kill him. A lot of people when they see Bang go FRKZ just sit there and try to block, which is futile because it's a case of "when" and not "if" against FRKZ. So what I thought I'd do is go after him, because, logically, he only can barrier, which is limited, and has longer blockstun than normal, so he really can't poke out well, other than attempt to cross-up, but that has a chance of scoring me a counterhit. So far it has positive results, compared to option 1. So what I am asking is, is all-out borderline suicidal offense a viable tactic against FRKZ? Can this tactic be countered by high level Bangs? If so, what other viable ways are there to make FRKZ Bang taste the ground? P.S. I don't know if this is the right place to ask, so if it isn't, would you please point me to that direction? Thanks. Presuming your using Ragna in this case. Pretty sure Ragna's solid pokes and DP mean the Bang player can't be stupid with it. If you can read an air approach, good ol 6a can come through. And getting knockdown, if you're smart, Bang can't just run away dash with the lack of invincibility on his dashes from prior.
huey253 Posted October 8, 2010 Posted October 8, 2010 5 pages of dacid being trolled and grabbing on for dear life. That's what I like to see. i try... i try.
StarryShade Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 So yeah, kind of new to Bang and trying to get away from lol 5A auto combo um but. How exactly do players like Kensou use bumpers for mixup. Cause 2C isn't JC'able on block so how the hell do I air dash over and back and crap. I've tried 2B but it pushes the opponent too far away. And imo Bang standard mixup is very boring which is why I want to learn bumpers.
Lord Knight Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 Hi, I was hoping some pros could help me with FRKZ. More specifically, how to deal with a FRKZed Bang as an opponent. As in, how to kill a FRKZed Bang. What I've noticed is that Bang cannot normal block in FRKZ, is crazy fast that even the other guy probably doesn't have proper control over him (tried it out in training, specials are hard to do without moving), and that made me think about my options against FuRinKaBang: 1. Sit there and get crossed/mixed up. And die. 2. Go after him. And maybe die. Or maybe kill him. A lot of people when they see Bang go FRKZ just sit there and try to block, which is futile because it's a case of "when" and not "if" against FRKZ. So what I thought I'd do is go after him, because, logically, he only can barrier, which is limited, and has longer blockstun than normal, so he really can't poke out well, other than attempt to cross-up, but that has a chance of scoring me a counterhit. So far it has positive results, compared to option 1. So what I am asking is, is all-out borderline suicidal offense a viable tactic against FRKZ? Can this tactic be countered by high level Bangs? If so, what other viable ways are there to make FRKZ Bang taste the ground? P.S. I don't know if this is the right place to ask, so if it isn't, would you please point me to that direction? Thanks. Corner yourself, use Blood Kain and find out what happens next time on DBZ.
WolfCrimson Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 Sorry guys I've misused a word in my first post, what I meant by "tactic" was "overall strategy". the most sucessful tactic i've seen used is goldburst combo into hard knockdown and meaty frkz bang on his wakeup. cornering yourself to take away some of frkz's mixup also helps too. ok,thanks. I'd rather keep my burst for when I get stuck in a combo. And sometimes, it's already been used before Bang has FRKZ (to stop him getting 4 seals). I'll try cornering myself (which sounds like suicide, for some reason. I like it!) other than that... your pretty much sol if the bang knows what to do, so burst the 4th seal. Prevention IS the best solution, but I'm asking about what to do after Bang has FRKZ. Thanks for your input, mate. If you have a dragon punch, it's going to be very useful on reaction. Counter assault is GREAT, re-neutralizes the match if used intelligently. Understand his available options and his spacing to read whether he'll cross you up with jC or not. Sorry bro, but I've misused the word "tactic" (see first para). But I have a doubts with your points: DP is good (depends on character) but that can be baited by a good Bang. CA, like you said, re-neutralizes the match (except for some), but as mentioned, is actually something in Bang's favor, because he has the advantage in neutral situations. Thing is, his options (including mobility) are far too many to be able to read what he might do next, and I'm afraid that a good Bang can be inconsistent, and like, bait my reads. Mind-games within mind-games, man So yeah, "overall strategy", not "tactic". Sorry to have misled you dude. Presuming your using Ragna in this case. Pretty sure Ragna's solid pokes and DP mean the Bang player can't be stupid with it. If you can read an air approach, good ol 6a can come through. And getting knockdown, if you're smart, Bang can't just run away dash with the lack of invincibility on his dashes from prior. Not necessarily Ragna, no, pretty much anyone who can go offensive (so that's everyone except Tager). I've tried it with Hakumen, and I've had good results compared to trying to block and trying to find a hole in his offense. What I'm asking is " Is going all out offensive against FRKZ Bang something viable to do? If not, is there a better overall strategy to fighting FRKZ? Like maybe getting a health lead and then trying to get a timeout (don't recommend this, just an example), does this give me a better chance of winning?" Corner yourself, use Blood Kain and find out what happens next time on DBZ. What?
Dacidbro Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 Ehhh. FRKZ Neutral game is definitely overrated. People get scared and don't push enough buttons, or the right buttons. here's the thing, you're talking about baiting things, but he can't bait your DP if it's purely on reaction. And you can definitely jab him out of his air approach if he likes 9 dash jC, just push 5A CH 5D dash jB jC jC belial etc and you get free combo on some of the best oki in the game against a character that has trouble blocking now; the world is your oyster if you hit even one knockdown against FRKZ. Play careful, but not passive. Don't let him do what he wants. Getting out of the first knockdown is the hardest part, if you successfully do the fight is much better for you.
Dacidbro Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 So yeah, kind of new to Bang and trying to get away from lol 5A auto combo um but. How exactly do players like Kensou use bumpers for mixup. Cause 2C isn't JC'able on block so how the hell do I air dash over and back and crap. I've tried 2B but it pushes the opponent too far away. And imo Bang standard mixup is very boring which is why I want to learn bumpers. The way I have most commonly seen Kensou do it is using things like 5A jump cancel or a super deep 2B jump cancel. Nice part about 5A jump cancel is even with barrier your opponent won't move far; problem is lowish blockstun. Nice part about 2B jump cancel is high blockstun, problem is with barrier your opponent moves far. The third common option is 2B Dnails (do whatever the fuck you want with your bumper). This is a good option because Dnails are high stun, your opponent is often super suppressed by the blockstun and won't push buttons, and they definitely won't move far at all. Problem is obviously you burn your resources. Experiment around with it, be careful with overusing bumpers. Don't force it.
StarryShade Posted October 9, 2010 Posted October 9, 2010 Aight thanks Dacid. It's just I don't see bumpers used enough and although I know they are kind of gimmicky I'd like to learn them because it's really surprising to see a Bang who uses bumpers and uses them well. One more thing, after 5B 2B 2C 2B 623B how do I time the dash 2D after that? Or is that not even the proper combo .-.
vanfleihight Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I was recording these for someone else and thought they might be useful video reference for people learning FRKZ stuff here. Sorry if this is the wrong thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY22zVPqU9c&playnext=1&videos=nA2Ik43qZ9I&feature=mfu_in_order http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boIyWKxacVs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRlMvbU19ME $10 capture device is why quality is so questionable
StarryShade Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Thanks for that. Even though FRKZ combos are hard no matter if you see them and the combo notation. Hopefully I can get some sort of j.4C comboin down http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFEDHDmLu5I Anyone wanna tell me what I'm doing bad?
Reioumu Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I was recording these for someone else and thought they might be useful video reference for people learning FRKZ stuff here. Sorry if this is the wrong thread. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY22zVPqU9c&playnext=1&videos=nA2Ik43qZ9I&feature=mfu_in_order http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boIyWKxacVs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRlMvbU19ME $10 capture device is why quality is so questionable You could have gotten a few more reps off of the throw combos. But these are all combos I regularly used back when I played CS. Good chombos
Lord Knight Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 ok,thanks. I'd rather keep my burst for when I get stuck in a combo. And sometimes, it's already been used before Bang has FRKZ (to stop him getting 4 seals). I'll try cornering myself (which sounds like suicide, for some reason. I like it!) I was half trolling but basically it's extremely beneficial to corner yourself during FRKZ. If you're midscreen he pretty much has 4 way+command grab (and of course, airdash cancellable normals+8 way dash can increase the number of variations in the mixup drasticall). If you're in the corner, he can't cross you up - he only has high, low, throw. Of course it'll still be hard to block, but it's MUCH easier to deal with than being midscreen. Gold bursting during FRKZ is viable too, Bang has to use barrier to block, which is an extra frame of blockstun, it's a good chance to get a hit in. Gold burst IIRC is +5 (correct me if I'm wrong), so even if they instant barrier you should still be +1.
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