[CS1] Jin Gameplay Discussion v2 (No bitching edition)

[fadooglee]

It's pretty good I think, considering if you always combo most of the time with 2D.

Most players will just mash their A button to get out or didnt really do anything.

So it will definitely give an element of surprise.

It's kinda like breaking a corner combo for a reset with a 6A or something like that.

it's good because people will usually mash A with low guard direction.

I agree with souseta. They'll probably thinking you're going to finish the combo(because they will not expect you to do anything risky because this will guarantee you a high damaging combo). Thus, like souseta says, it's great surprise. I'd say the 6A is kind of the most risky.

The cross-up is a very good idea however(although I found it quite hard to get the timing right of the 2D so that you'll have enough time to run under them). Then maybe you can add a 6A after that you know?

Cross-up, grab/6A/etc

Great idea, never would of thought of it XD

I also saw Buppa do something similar in the corner.

He did 5B(2)>3C>2B>5C>sj.2C>j.D>fall>land>unfreeze>6A (it was one of the Buppa vs. Hazama videos.)

[Yuushiro]

But if you are sure that you are going to win the round with a combo, and your enemy has no more burst. Comboing them is definitely a way to go .

[Ice Cube]

It's pretty good I think, considering if you always combo most of the time with 2D.

Most players will just mash their A button to get out or didnt really do anything.

So it will definitely give an element of surprise.

It's kinda like breaking a corner combo for a reset with a 6A or something like that.

it's good because people will usually mash A with low guard direction.

What element of surprise are you talking about? Since the usual combo filler after 2D is 6B (which is highly telegraphed), it's quite obvious that you are aiming for a reset if you just run straight at them. More so if you air dash/jump at them. A backdash/DP/well timed 2A is more than enough to prevent all of Jin's reset options. And we shall always keep in mind that Jin's mixup sucks.

And why would any competent player in their right mind be mashing A while frozen . Or do you mean that most player are incompetent enough, they don't know that they cannot tech out of ice or they think that freeze = stagger? Fact: Freeze = hitstun and IT AUTO UNFREEZE!!! And when they don't mash A, THEY BLOCK. Only scrubs do nothing.

Attempting a reset after j.D is different since both characters are falling down and Jin usually stick quite close to opponent after j.D, it looks quite ambiguous. The reward is much higher, and you also have valid mixup options (both 6A and 3C will hit after unfreeze).

Verdict is that this is more of a gimmick than a solid reset option. It has it uses, but use it sparingly. IMO, doesn't really worth it.

(and I never managed to run under opponent after 2D. Maybe cause I always delay 2D for solid damage + pushback and I don't risk eating backdash+GETB )

Might as well post some throw combos:

Midscreen:

Back throw>214A(whiff), 5C>6C>dc, either j.C jc j.2C 214C or j.C j.2C jc j.2C 214D, land 6C>214C

Front throw(3 hit)>214A(whiff), 5B>2B>5C>3C>214C (works on Tager, Taokaka, Arakune, Rachel)

Front throw(2 hit)>sekkajin, 6C>2D, either 6C>214C or 6B>214D, 6C>214C (maybe character specific)

Corner:

Back throw>214A(whiff), 5C>6C>6D, 623D, either 6C>214C (knockdown) or 6C>6D, 5C jc j.B j.C j.2C jc j.C j.2C (damage)

Front throw(2hit)>623B, 6C>6D, either 6C>214C or (small delay) 6C>dc, j.C 214D, land 6C>214C.

Note: for back throw combos, must connect 5C while opponent is still airborne. 5 frame buffering helps.

To mods: can we have threads for matchup discussions now? Or are we supposed to create them ourselves?

[Yuushiro]

if you really want to be unpredictable still do the 6B, but try the reset options after the 6B.

[shtkn]

i don't think that qualifies as a reset... if you want to make CS matchup threads go for it. BUT MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SOMETHING INTELLIGENT TO SAY IN THE FIRST POST. if by the time console release comes out we don't have all matchups covered, i'll just make a thread for each matchup (since we really need it by then)

[Yuushiro]

well, we know jin's mixup is not good. Therefore being unpredictable is what we can hope for. if we do 2D -> 6B and something else, I think it will be a little bit surprising for the enemy. and it does give a chance to reset. with 6A or 6B it's still possible.

[theroundtable]

Picked up a new(?) combo from a recent vid: (crouching or CH) 5C > 6C > dash > 5C > 2C > jD > airdash > j2C > jC > 5B (one hit) > 3C (Fatal counter) 2C (FC) > 6C > dash > 5C > 2C > jD > airdash > j2C > jC > 5C > 6C (need to be near the corner by here) > 6D > 5C > jC > j2C > djC > j2C Video was kind of blurry though so I couldn't make out the damage.

[Yuushiro]

Hey, anyone has a good combo out of counter hit 6C? I keep trying to do another 6C and an air combo but it doesnt seems so effective. going straight to 2D also not that effective. I think there's 2 version of 6C counter hit combo, one without distortion or any meter and could do still around 4k especially if close to the corner. and another one with ice arrow super with 5600 something damage I think. I remember seeing it at japanese BBS or something. let me know if you guys can think of it/find it

[smooshman]

Hey, anyone has a good combo out of counter hit 6C?

I keep trying to do another 6C and an air combo but it doesnt seems so effective.

going straight to 2D also not that effective.

I think there's 2 version of 6C counter hit combo,

one without distortion or any meter and could do still around 4k especially if close to the corner.

and another one with ice arrow super with 5600 something damage I think.

I remember seeing it at japanese BBS or something. let me know if you guys can think of it/find it

I thought you were supposed to dash>jump>air combo after 6C CH

[Yuushiro]

I think it's too far not sure about it. and it won't maximize the damage you can do anyway with a 6C counter hit if you air combo right away.

[Ice Cube]

Hey, anyone has a good combo out of counter hit 6C?

I keep trying to do another 6C and an air combo but it doesnt seems so effective.

going straight to 2D also not that effective.

How about doing both of them

6C(CH)>dc, small dash, 6C>2D, 6B>sekkajin, either 6C>214C (DA=3999) or 6C>214D, 6C>214C (DA=4572) or 6C>ice arrow, 214C (DA=5055)

Not terribly reliable, not so easy to hitconfirm, but should be the best damage possible. If the first 6C was an air hit, do air combo after second 6C instead.

In corner, just do 25% heat corner loop for sweet 5100 damage w knockdown or 5700 damage w/o knockdown.

I have been testing using TK 236B/C, as a way to reset pressure and it works quite well so far. I can do 2D/5C/dash 5B after landing. TK 236C also works for me as a safe tool to throw out to cover my approach (especially against Lambda) or to stop people charging at me (Tager's 2D, Hazama's chain, and general running). Can someone else test these ideas?

[Yuushiro]

Don't do the TK too often though. it still has landing recovery and if you do it too often it will backfire at you. The fireball pace is too predictable and they can avoid it in many ways.

[Yuushiro]

Most damaging jin combo I think, about 7.25 k doesn't need to start with D DP at all, I think you can get away with 2-3 hits before the D DP so it will connect out of 6C or 6D or any of combo corner starter D DP 2x＞6C＞6D＞B DP＞6C＞6D＞6C＞D DP＞6C＞6D＞5C＞6C＞D DP＞6C＞D super＞6C＞C DP

[Yuushiro]

I just wonder about this now, but can we still do 2C>DP B> DP A in the corner. because it may not end up in a knockdown but it gives out extra damage. I wonder if it's better than 2C/6C > Ice car C that I always do in the corner if I am going to finish out the round. Seems I never see the top player do something like that in CS

[smooshman]

Most damaging jin combo I think,

about 7.25 k doesn't need to start with D DP at all, I think you can get away with 2-3 hits before the D DP so it will connect out of 6C or 6D or any of combo corner starter

D DP 2x＞6C＞6D＞B DP＞6C＞6D＞6C＞D DP＞6C＞6D＞5C＞6C＞D DP＞6C＞D super＞6C＞C DP

how does that work? that takes 125 heat... though you may gain a lot during the combo... so it depends on the starting heat

[Ice Cube]

Don't do the TK too often though.

it still has landing recovery and if you do it too often it will backfire at you.

The fireball pace is too predictable and they can avoid it in many ways.

When done at about 2A's max range, the reaction time is so small, it's as good as a non-escapable blockstring. When done a bit further away (5B's max range), ways to avoid I can think of are DPs (which will whiff -> easy punish, can even punish Litchi's with 2D), Noel's D attacks and 2C (whiff but cannot punish, can continue pressure afterwards), Arakune's 2C (serious trouble here, but there's a slim chance to block it?), Taokaka's crawling (damn), Carl's Vivace (goddamn), Tager's backdash (not really reliable) and Sledge (ZOMG). Jumping/crouching/backdash here won't help. Even if it's a bit predictable, it's still safe pressure reset when used against character with no effective way to punish it. And no, at 5C's max range I do 2D instead.

Also, just realized that Sledge beat all of Jin pressure reset options except for 6B.

Most damaging jin combo I think,

about 7.25 k doesn't need to start with D DP at all, I think you can get away with 2-3 hits before the D DP so it will connect out of 6C or 6D or any of combo corner starter

D DP 2x>6C>6D>B DP>6C>6D>6C>D DP>6C>6D>5C>6C>D DP>6C>D super>6C>C DP

This combo is so ridiculously impossible in so many ways, it's quite interesting to list out the errors

The obvious impossible parts are in bold. No no no, D normals can only freeze the first time in combos. And the 125% heat condition.

The non-obvious impossible parts are underlined. The proration point of this combo is so ridiculously high, D DP, 6C will not connect.

(seriously, go read the combo thread or something)

There is one more impossible part I haven't mentioned. Anyone bored enough to point it out?

Best damage & LEGIT combo I can think of:

6C>6D, 6B>623B, 6C>6D, 623D, 6C>6D, 623D, 6C>6D, ice arrow, 6C>623C (something like 6600~6700)

I just wonder about this now, but can we still do

2C>DP B> DP A in the corner. because it may not end up in a knockdown but it gives out extra damage.

I wonder if it's better than 2C/6C > Ice car C that I always do in the corner if I am going to finish out the round. Seems I never see the top player do something like that in CS

And they have a very good reason not to. 2C>623B>623A do less damage than 6C>214C

Best way to score extra damage after air combo>214D is to spend heat on either 6C>dc>5C>623D or 6C>ice arrow, 6C>623C. If you don't have heat, then don't even bother trying.

Or sometimes just 6C>dc>air (purple) throw>236C SELECTIVELY (against scrub/people with CT habit of buffering Throw Reject). Trust me, this is so obvious, I always got Throw Reject Miss whenever I do it . The most important part here is SELECTIVELY.

[smooshman]

snip

uhh... first off in that first part what attack are you talking about? I must know

now souseta was talking about some combo he saw or something... I haven't seen it so I can't really comment on whether it works... but you don't have to be a bit of dick about it...

and last he was asking a question... so being kind of jerkish about it makes people feel stupid about stuff they didn't know... but from what I remeber the proration or whatever for 623B was like 70% or something and 623A was like 60%... I'm not 100% sure though... please don't troll people asking legitimate questions... If I misinterpreted your attitude sorry just going by my perception

[Yuushiro]

Hmm, I pick that combo up from the japanese BBS. It is a corner combo though. I haven't tested it out, and it does seems really hard to connect. The guy who posted it insisted it works though. and I think 6C, 6D , D DP is some of the less prorated move that jin has. that's why tetsu can make it to 6.5 k in the recent videos. and I guess, I am the official troll bait now , smooshman, lol.

[smooshman]

can I ask why there isn't a CS matchup forum for Jin

[Yuushiro]

becausee shtkn want anyone that want to start it will have intelligent first post to start the discussion and so far no one can think of any

[Ice Cube]

Sorry for trolling, I was pissed off IRL and then I come here and saw a triple post, two of which are too much troll bait to be ignored ... and it took me quite a while to write those troll post xD You should have stated the source before posting that combo, but then it still doesn't help much since you should have rationally analyzed it before posting. I mean, 6D(non-freeze)>6C !? That guy on the BBS must be trolling. The key to doing the most damaging Jin's corner combos is to do as many 6C>6D as possible, adding fillers such as 6B>623B; 623D; 5C>hjc>j.2C>air 214D (what tetsu did) in between. After testing, the combo I posted above did 6503 after ice arrow and 6700 in total (tetsu's did 6508, I tried adding 6C>623C and it did 6638). @ smooshman: I was referring to doing TK 236B/C for pressure reset.

[smooshman]

something that's been bugging me is that 623B>6C didn't work in CT, which could easily hand wave this but... you had to do 623B>5C>6C... but since 623B has more recovery (I think) and 6C really didn't change (I think:vbang:)... but at least it simplified the combo

[Yuushiro]

hmm, if you want to do DP B > 6C I just realize the hits must before 5 or 6 hits or they will recover. and yea, after I analyze it. it does seems impossible but it's on the japanese wiki combo now. you can look it up, I translated some of it in the locked thread but now they updated it with more combos

[Yuushiro]

I just want to point this out too, if you want to do this 6C>6D>DP D high damage loop combo, for the first time freezing it with 6D you may skip the 6B or any filler before doing the DP B. so do instead of 6B> DP B. you can do DP B right away when they are frozen and it will still end up with a very damaging combo. it's helpful for me too, because sometimes I missed the timing of 6B>DP B. because if you do it too fast it will be an air fireball, if you are late then they will break free. so I think, if I am not sure or when I am nervous I think straight to DP B is better especially if they are about to die.

[asianpride528]

Hello I'm new to the dustloop thing and I got some question about Jin 5C> 632C (not use to the number pad) I think it ice car. Somehow I can't link it after mashing C>5C>632C so did I do something wrong or is it the time after the 5C hit?